Talk and data usage count doesn't match history

[IanM1]

New customer here, trying to understand usage reporting over the first few days.

My history reports one call of 31 seconds. Usage shows 2 minutes.

History reports a total of about 2 Mbytes used. Usage shows 7 Mbytes.

Why the discrepancy? History is accurate, usage is not.

[darlicious]

@IanM1 

I can see how your suggestion could be added to the help articles or the small print when ii comes to info on data and how it is metered. But if you consider that other providers data counters are only "estimated" such as fido and may not be updated for several hours which conveniently would lead to overages on a monthly basis. Fortunately pm's data counters are very accurate minus the 5.2mb buffer.

To contact customer support click below:

https://productioncommunity.publicmobile.ca/t5/notes/composepage/note-to-user-id/22437

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[IanM1]

Happy to help you understand.

This is not a great issue of concern, once it's explained and verified how it works. I'll never have to bother about it again, so it would be easy for me to move on and forget it. But I'm a public-spirited sort who thinks about all the other people who will encounter this totally unnecessary and easily-fixable issue in future.

As someone who has worked in the computer and telecoms industry for a long time, I know that when customers complain about an issue, the tendency is to respond by telling them why they don't understand and they are wrong. It's human nature, and we have to fight against it constantly to realize that there IS an issue BECAUSE those people didn't understand and got it wrong.

The issue here is that anyone would normally have a reasonable expectation that their remaining data capacity should match the starting allowance minus what has been reported used. But in the case of Public Mobile that's not true, and the discrepancy in percentage terms is especially high at the beginning for new users who have just started using data. There is no way to know if the discrepancy will keep growing, no readily-available explanation for this without asking in a forum like this community.

This is totally unnecessary. There is no reason for end users to see a technically-required buffer allocation, and if they must, the explanation for why they will see a discrepancy should be clearly posted.

[softech]

I think Hydro has buffer too.. They don't read my meter outside my house every month.. they just "estimate" , and most the time overcharged... only until the finally come and read the meter every other month, then then adjust my bill.

honest, it's a buffer and will get reset.. It does not bother me at all.. 

[crustylady]

@IanM1 

Why is this small issue so bothersome?

I'm not minimizing your concern, however of all the things with this 3rd tier service that causes real issues for customers, THIS is what is on your mind?

Help us understand why it's something to be concerned with, please.   Am I missing something?

[Anonymous]

 @IanM1 : Really? A 5 meg sliding buffer that resets overnight or from engaging airplane mode and you're getting this obsessed about it? To each their battles and their principles I guess.

[IanM1]

Strangely Fortis Gas and BC Hydro don't feel any need to show me an extra "buffer" of usage that hasn't happened yet on my accounts. Why does PM? As an end user I have no interest in their internal technical need for a buffer, so why do they have to show it to me?  It's needless and confusing. 

[Anonymous]

 @IanM1 : Maybe have a read here. 

[darlicious]

@IanM1 

The buffer is not shown in your daily usage pages it is only shown in your counter that is current and is removed from the counter when it resets nightly or manually thru airplane mode. When the buffer is in use its reflected in the counter. It makes your data counter very accurate....I don't quite understand why you have such an issue with this?

[IanM1]

It's great that PM provides a buffer, but what does that have to do with your reported data usage? It's either data used or it isn't. If it's data used, it should be in the history tracking. If it isn't, it shouldn't be shown.

[AE_Collector]

@Anonymous 

Yup. They pay us the BiG BuX to sort this stuff out for people. Even “Simon the Horrible” gets people to the CSA’s successfully .. occasionally….

AE_Collector

[Anonymous]

 @IanM1 : It only shows as long as you have data on. You keep your data off until needed right. 🙂

Don't forget the 30 day thing here for your phone tracking. And if you do MMS then your phone will add that but not PM.

Edit:  @AE_Collector : and this is an exact example of why not to. No CSA's needed.

[AE_Collector]

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@Anonymous wrote:

 I just can not fathom why some regulars always jump to telling customers to go to the CSA's before it's clear that they need to.

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@Anonymous 

Yes you can….

It is the most likely to generate a solution.

AE_Collector

[darlicious]

@IanM1 

The buffer helps prevent lag when loading pages or downloading or streaming content. It keeps the data ahead of the game so to speak. If there was no buffer then you could experience a buffering delay when watching certain video content for example. "Buffering" can still occur but is less likely to with the 5mb buffer pm uses. If there was no buffer at all your data enjoyment level would be much lower and your frustration level much higher.

@Anonymous 

If not the 1st time the may the 4th be with you!😉

[IanM1]

Thanks, you're right. So how big a buffer does PM normally take? 5 Mbytes? Why bother to do that? It just screws up the reporting.

[Anonymous · Accepted solution]

 @IanM1 : "PM Data plan usage" is showing the buffer for the time that your mobile data is turned on. Turn off your data. Turn on airplane mode. Wait a few moments. Refresh page. What does the "PM Data plan usage" show now? Turn off airplane mode. Turn on your data. Refresh page. What does the "PM Data plan usage" show now? 

It's a constant running window of a buffer. It takes the buffer upon turning on data. As you consume data it keeps pulling that buffer to always be ahead.

Edit: Do your same observations again only ...leave data off. The buffer will clear on its own (the way airplane does it quicker) and your numbers will match. Ish. Your phone will always take a little bit of data just because and depending on your settings and apps.

[IanM1]

I use the built-in data tracker on my phone to keep track of usage.

Here are the numbers since I started with PM last week, including yesterday's history now caught up:

My phone: 4.96 Mbytes

PM data usage history: 4.9 Mbytes

PM data plan usage: 9.662 Mbytes

Again I ask: what's going on here?

[darlicious]

@esjliv 

Lol....I guess I can see your confusion. What I meant was the one minute cut off time. Hang up at 52 seconds to be absolutely sure you won't be charged for a 2 minute call. If you hit 54 seconds you might as well talk for another 58 seconds.

[esjliv]

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@IanM1 wrote:

Thanks for all the replies. To answer some of the points raised:

Now that the History has caught up, it looks like PM recorded an extra cell call to voicemail that I don't recall making. Possibly an accident from hitting 1 where I didn't abort quickly enough.

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@IanM1  - regarding your statement above...please note:

Someone leaving you a voice message, or simply going to your voicemail will show up in the DETAIL USAGE - but this DOES NOT use up your Outgoing Minutes.

This will be described as "All" under the "Originating Location" in the detail usage history.

BUT, as you already know, retrieving voice messages or simply calling your own voicemail to change settings, etc, from your PM device, DOES use up Outgoing minutes. 

This will be described as "Your Province" under the "Originating Location" in the detail usage history.

So good on you to use a landline to check voicemail; you can also download a free voip number from Fongo, and call your Public Mobile number on your own device through Fongo, and will will not use outgoing minutes (i use this method).

[esjliv]

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@darlicious wrote:

@IanM1 

For a connected call the first minute is counted at about 53 seconds. The second minute at about 1 minute and 53 seconds and so on...

@darlicious   - huh? Are you saying in this statement that the call must be a minimum of 53 seconds to count as a 1 minute outgoing call?

I must be misunderstanding what you wrote, because I know a connected call (answered by person or voicemail) under 53 seconds does count as One full minute.

[softech]

@IanM1   Are you on Android or iPhone?  

you use the built in data tracker to keep track of the usage?

[darlicious]

@IanM1 

Are you saying your data is double in your account than your phone after only two days of service? Are you counting the 5mb buffer in that amount? Your phone says 2mb but your account 7mb? 7mb-5mb=2mb or its reporting 9mb-5mb=4mb?

[darlicious]

@Meow 

No. Only if it connects so the first minute is charged at about 53 seconds. The rest that follow are full minutes at 1min 53 sec, 2 min 53 sec, 3 min 53 sec and so on.....

[Meow]

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@HALIMACS wrote:

@IanM1 

Another thing to consider is that ring time WILL COUNT toward the call time when a call is answered or connected through voicemail.

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That is a really mobile phone company's dirty trick how to steal your minutes..

Does it counts (minutes) if you call somebody, it rings few times and you hang up?

[Meow]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Spoiler

• Customer Support Agent by CS_Agent, will Response to your inbox by private message 
• During business hours, we strive to answer customer messages swiftly. You will often get an answer within an hour. During peak periods, you may need to wait up to 48 hours.Customer Support Agents are available:
  • Monday to Sunday: 6 AM to 10 PM EST
  • Note: Public Mobile No Support by phone call or Email.. only by CS_Agent, private message..

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There is ABSOLUTELY no need to contact CSA for this issue.

[HALIMACS]

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@IanM1 wrote:

Thanks for all the replies. To answer some of the points raised:

I'm experienced in the management of mobile data usage with other providers. I know all about turning off background data usage by apps and switching between WiFi and cellular data connection. The issue I have is that the data usage total shown by PM is about double what my phone reports. Formerly on the Rogers network the data total reported by Rogers was always less than my phone reported. The PM total also doesn't match what's shown in the History log, and yes I'm aware that there's a lag. Something's not kosher here.

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@IanM1 Is your device truly in conjunction with your Public Mobile 30-day cycle.?

Remember, it's not calendar months at Public Mobile - it's 30 days which means the start/end days will fall back over the course of a year and do not naturally coincide with a device's data counter.

I've recommend to folks that they manually reset their device's data counter on the evening of the last day of their cycle so they can have a realistic measure of their real data consumption in the upcoming cycle.

There's also an app called PM Data Witness which some have reported success with.

[IanM1]

Thanks for all the replies. To answer some of the points raised:

I'm experienced in the management of mobile data usage with other providers. I know all about turning off background data usage by apps and switching between WiFi and cellular data connection. The issue I have is that the data usage total shown by PM is about double what my phone reports. Formerly on the Rogers network the data total reported by Rogers was always less than my phone reported. The PM total also doesn't match what's shown in the History log, and yes I'm aware that there's a lag. Something's not kosher here.

As for the minutes, I'm aware that calls to pick up voicemail made on my cell phone use up minutes, so I don't do that. I call the voicemail number on a land line to pick up messages. I only had to call voicemail from my cell once to set it up initially. And I'm aware that the mobile operators count time from when it starts to ring, and round the minutes up. Now that the History has caught up, it looks like PM recorded an extra cell call to voicemail that I don't recall making. Possibly an accident from hitting 1 where I didn't abort quickly enough.

[darlicious]

@IanM1 

For a connected call the first minute is counted at about 53 seconds. The second minute at about 1 minute and 53 seconds and so on...

I believe the two 12 hour blocks of data usage from the day before are reported just after midnight eastern sometimes as late as 1:30 to 2am eastern. This is where the daily usage history won't completely line up with the accurate overview and data usage pages counters. The counters also reset at midnight eastern so depending on your time zone your phones data counter can be off by up to 3 hours in the west and 90 minutes in the east.

Texts, calls forwarded to voicemail are logged at eastern time. Connected calls are logged at local time. Call forwarded calls do not use outgoing minutes on limited calling plans nor do toll free calls within North America. Toll free calls outside of North America will use international minutes but not limited plan minutes. Calls to voicemail from the customers phone will use outgoing minutes.

MMS texts need data enabled but do not use nor need either plan data or add on data to be sent and recieved. They are sent thru a separate server. The approximate 5mb data buffer is reset each night or by toggling airplane mode on/off.

[HALIMACS]

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@Anonymous wrote:

13 hours later and with a copy/paste on the other hand...

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@Anonymous 

Huh?

EDIT:  just got it, @Anonymous  😉

[Anonymous]

 @HALIMACS : But did it take you 18 minutes to write all that? It's all good. Some people read and interpret the same concept in different ways and one of those different ways might make sense to them.

13 hours later and with a copy/paste on the other hand...

[HALIMACS]

@IanM1 

Another thing to consider is that ring time WILL COUNT toward the call time when a call is answered or connected through voicemail.

This may mean that actual talk times of 40-60 seconds (after up to a possible 20+ seconds of ring time) will almost always exceed the 1 minute marker, which means they'll count as 2 minutes.

For those on a minute-limited plans watching the call timer, best to end the call before the 30 second counter of each minute to ensure you're under that minute.

[ EDIT:  main point of this reply was covered by @esjliv  edit above. ]