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Points-back system

tzliu
Model Citizen / Citoyen Modèle

If your plan is $41.25, you should have received 5% of $41.25 in points.  But if you have the bill reduced by points, you will only earn 5% of the reduced bill.  

 

Edit - to remove the strong word as many object.  Happy "earning" points.

35 REPLIES 35

darlicious
Mayor / Maire

@Patchio 

Presumably pm must prioritize credits to be used first regardless of an account's available funds balance. But I don't understand how you would of thought the bonus credits would be points? It's a credit not a reward. The reward is only 1 point or $1.

 

Customer should also be aware of credits being applied while suspended. Commonly the small print will mention that your account has to be active to receive a credit but that's not necessarily the case as I discovered in Spring with an account I had suspended via lost/stolen. Being aware of this I was preparing to reactivate the account as it was near to 90 days of suspension and I didn't want to lose out on the credit of $20 for purchasing a CPO phone from public mobile.

 

I had resumed "service" via lost/stolen and added nearly enough funds to reactivate. I had to add an additional $1.35 to reactivate and planned on using up the balance of a Visa gift card to top up the account and reactivate automatically.

 

I was waiting to do this at 9:01 p.m. pacific but unbeknownst to me Public Mobile had added the $20 credit a day earlier than I expected. I was taken back when I logged in to make that final payment and reactivate to find my account was already activated?

 

That's when I saw the $20 credit in my transaction history and realized that not only had I received the credit but it had automatically reactivated my account!!

 

Customers should be aware that disabling auto pay to suspend their accounts can come with a consequence that if an unexpected credit equals or exceeds your plan amount your account can be automatically reactivated without your knowledge or at least that's how the old self serve accounts worked. How the new self serve accounts work in regards to this I have no idea? But I do know that I will always suspend via lost/stolen.

JL9
Mayor / Maire

Nope you would get them but only on purchases. It says pretty clearly you get points on what you spend. If you have the 15 dollar plan and you get your 10 credit for using referral code, then you are only spending 5 dollars. It would be great if they gave you points on what you don't spend too, but they don't unfortunately.

Patchio
Model Citizen / Citoyen Modèle

@softech 

I believe enough new users signed up for PM during the recent RAF bonus promotions that it shouldn't be considered a unique situation. It just doesn't seem like PM considered the possibility that the old Rewards System would interfere with the new Points System. 

 

I did try to manually load money into my account balance and hoping that it would allow me to get 3x the points, but it doesn't work that way unfortunately. The money shows up in my Available Balance, but nothing gets added to my Points Balance. As it stands, unless I use the money in my account to purchase some add-ons or to change (upgrade) my plan immediately, I wouldn't get any points, which brings me back to the original problem I was having.

 

Lesson learned. It's not an ideal situation, but it is what it is. 

 

Have a Happy Thanksgiving.

@Patchio   this is a unique situation, I guess.  Similar thing could happen to any point system, and I guess it is hard for PM to write down each situation, or maybe they can include it in the "fine print" but not everyone will read it all anyway

 

i am thinking of one thing, it might be worth to try.  The point is based on spending, to be honest, it is on the "inflow" of fund from customer.  You can try to manually load $5 to see if you get 3x 5% of $5.  If that works, then you can delay the use of the monthly $5 credit by manually load the full plan amount before the renewal day.   In fact, if it really work, you can earn more of the 3x Promotional points by loading a big amount on right before the end of the promotion, let say $200 to earn 30 points (3x 5% of $200).   Worth the try, you might be able to beat the system..

Patchio
Model Citizen / Citoyen Modèle

@softech 

That's the thing, I didn't redeem my points yet. I didn't even choose to redeem my referral credits, it just happened. Since PM added the referral credits (actual $) to my account before I made a manual payment, the referral credits were used FIRST to pay for my renewal, which is not what I wanted. I understand that's how the old Rewards System worked, in that it reduced your monthly bill automatically, which is fine because there was no need to "save" the credits. How much you spent didn't affect the amount of reward you were getting.  

 

But with Public Points, you actually need to "spend" during the 12 month promotional period in order to maximize the points you get back. Using referral credits to pay for a plan renewal, which wasn't my choice, actually penalizes a user because they miss out on getting any points whatsoever, which is what bothers me the most about this situation.

 

When PM is advertising the various plans on their website, they're also listing how much a user can expect to get back under the 3x the points 12 month promotion. Imagine you're me and you see that for the $15 plan, you should get back $2.25/month (in points) during the first 12 months. Okay, so you activate your plan and you do receive $2.25 back in points for September. But when October rolls around, you get no points. Nothing. Zero. The only reason that happened is because I used a referral code during activation AND was eligible for the RAF bonus offer. If I didn't use a referral code, I would be collecting $2.25 back in points for October as well.

 

All I'm trying to say is that PM should have done a much better job explaining the nuances of their Points program, specifically mentioning how referral credits will impact the amount of points a user will get back because they don't get to choose when referral credits are applied to their plan renewal or add-on purchases. By omitting this information, I find that PM's marketing is deceptive and misleading.           

 

 

@gpixel 

Unfortunately, yes and that's the problem. Customers on Public Points do get actual credit $ (like the old Rewards System) added to their available balance for using a referral code during their own activation AND for participating in the RAF bonus offer, BUT they get also Points when they pay for their renewal, add-ons, or when someone uses their referral code. I initially thought the credit from using a referral code would be applied as points, but that's not the case and it took me a while before I realized it was applied as actual credit $.

 

Since I'm stuck in this hybrid system, the promotion where I can earn 3x the points on eligible purchases for 12 months is cancelled out by the fact that the referral credits are being applied when I don't want them to. For October, I wanted to pay for my $15 plan and save the referral credits until a later time, so that I can get 3x the points while I'm still in the 12 month promotional period. Instead, I received no points for October even though I applied a manual payment to my available funds, because the referral credits were used before my own manual payment.

 

Right now, I can choose when I want to apply the points, but I cannot choose when I want to apply the actual credit $ in my available balance because the PM System handles payments in the "First in, first out" manner. If the credit I got from using a referral code OR participating in the RAF bonus offer was deposited as points instead of actual credit $, I wouldn't be having this issue in the first place. In that case, I could actually save my points until the end of the 12 month promotional period, and used them afterwards like darlicious had suggested.

darlicious
Mayor / Maire

@gpixel 

Agreed. If p.m. kept 3×points then it's a win all the way around. PM only pays out a higher amount to those who are spending more money each month and those who spend more money each month get a decent reward back in points. Well they will earn less in loyalty those who have data plans or travel a lot can suspend and still continue to earn their anniversary reward.

 

Customers that regularly travel to the US can take advantage of the discounted US Roaming add-ons when they redeem points. $15 plan users can have a cheap build-your-own plan by saving their points and redeeming them for $10/10pt/1gb data add ons.

 

I had two referrals switch to the $55/20 GB student plan. I advise both to save their points until the promotion ends and then they can redeem preferably for discounted add-ons to stretch their buying power with points. What's the point of redeeming for a $15 bill discount if the following month you have to purchase a $15/1 GB data add on?

 

 

 

@Patchio 

do customers with the points system get actual credit $ and not points for that promotion? I thought they would receive points. 3x points means 15% so how is one not benefiting from it? the referral reward would only take $5 off. that's not enough to cover ones bill.. it's better than the auto-pay. it's like having autopay for 5 years in advance for $40+ plans. imagine they kept it like that and not only for 12 months. so which rewards would be better? cause that kind of makes up for the nerfed loyalty rewards. it's an instant reward. if PM were to keep that 3x points, it makes it better than the old rewards system. instead of waiting 5 years to achieve those savings. if one wants maximum points they can just save it and keep paying the full amount. also one gets the 10 point loyalty every year. that beats the old rewards all day

@Patchio   I guess it makes sense.  Let say you have enough points and redeem $15 bill credit,  it covers fully your $15 plan, then you actually paid $0 for the renewal, so you get no Public Point

 

This is normal to all reward points or cash-back calculations, they calculate the final spending after all discount and credit applied,  before tax

darlicious
Mayor / Maire

@Patchio 

I had wondered that myself but somehow they do distinguish between a credit and a cash payment. It must be coded a certain way so that credits added from the public mobile side won't register for points whereas funds added by the customer when used to purchase or pay for plans are add-ons register the points. Points are calculated as the funds exit the account rather than enter it. How they code those funds is a mystery to me but at least you do save paying tax on credits. So if you look at it that way depending on your province the minimum you get back by not paying it is 5% up to 15% on a credit.

Patchio
Model Citizen / Citoyen Modèle

@JL9

 

Wait, that's how Public Points works when it comes to referrals credits? Is that why my account didn't receive any points back from the recent renewal this week, because it's not considered a "spend" in PM's opinion. I was wondering what happened.

 

So what you're saying is, if I used a referral code and received the initial $10 credit, or participated in the $25 ($5 x 5) RAF bonus offer and received those credits, then I won't receive any public points for my $15 plan until those credits are all used up? I actually added money to my account to pay for my plan renewal in October, on top of whatever credits PM applied, so how would PM distinguish between me applying the referral credits OR me paying for my plan with a credit card? I don't even mind making a credit card payment and getting 3X the points back while saving the referral credits and using them at a later time, but it seems that's not even an option.

 

Seriously, PM can't advertise 3X the points-back on every dollar spent on all eligible purchases for 12 months when that doesn't happen IF you used a referral code or participated in the RAF bonus promotion. I signed up thinking I could stack these promotions on top of each other to make up for the fact that Public Points is inferior to the old Rewards system in every possible way, and I wouldn't be surprised if other people signed up thinking they could benefit from 3x the Public Points AND the RAF promotion. If this is how Public Points works in conjunction with referral credits, then PM's using deceptive marketing to make the Points program seem better than it actually is, which is AWFUL.

Hi @tzliu its my understanding that all reward system, cash back are based on the final amount you spent, after any credit deducted.   would be nice if you tell us one that will calculate it differently 

 

I see you joined for couple years, how you ended up on the new system? did you migrated or you left P and joined back??

darlicious
Mayor / Maire

@tzliu 

I think you're missing the point (no pun intended.) Similar to other loyalty programs whether it's with your credit card or your grocery store or whatever the company owns the program and they always have a caveat that they include that gives them the right to cancel, change or withdraw the loyalty program at any time without notice.

 

There's very little you can do about that unless you're prepared to take them to court and even then I'm unsure how successful you would be an arguing your point in a court of law. The only real possibility of getting satisfaction to a claim about how a loyalty program is administered would be filing a complaint with the Competition Bureau of Canada.

 

If you could prove that a provider or a company used false or misleading statements or a bait and switch when marketing a loyalty program to induce customers to purchase their mobile services from them and then substantially change or withdraw a loyalty program you would have some success in forcing a company to fully deliver on their promises and be punitively punished by the judicial system to prevent future marketing promise renegations.

 

But if you read the terms and conditions of the points program they are pretty clear on how you can earn points. As mentioned by @softech points are only earned on the dollar amount spent by the customer and that does not include credits whether they come from promotions or goodwill gestures or redemptions. That's the policy they have set.

 

If you look at PC optimum points when you shop at shoppers drug mart you cannot earn when you redeem points. That's their policy. But you can earn when you redeem at no frills, superstore and loblaws. That's the policy those stores have set even though they all belong to the same loyalty program and are owned by the same corporation.

 

While I would argue that in the rollout of the points program Public Mobile was deceptive in their messaging to current rewards customers that gave them the impression that they had no choice but to enroll in the points program. There were many customers that sadly found out after enrollment in the points program that they actually had a choice to stay with rewards but Public Mobile insured there is no possibility of returning to the rewards program.

 

I understand that you don't feel it should be administered this way as I similarly don't agree with how the PC option program is sometimes administered. But ultimately I'm only a beneficiary to the program I don't own it. I don't set the rules and there's very little I can do about it other than not participate because that choice is always yours to make.

tzliu
Model Citizen / Citoyen Modèle

@softech @gpixel  Good for your self-righteousness.  Please keep in mind you are no better than anyone else.  Stick to the point and personality has nothing to do with the discussion.  As mentioned, thank you for your defense of the PM points.  Great you are happy and enjoy. 

 

 

Sometimes, people are too obsessed with what should be in a perfect world, and forgotten that it's not a system used in our imperfect world  🙂

I don't think common sense is part of their repertoire lol

@tzliu

 

All similar points system are based on spending,  not your plan amount.  If it is based on plan amount, it's called Plan discount.

 

And PM has said it clearly in all communications,  the rewards is based on 5% back for every dollar spent

 

Ref: https://publicmobile.ca/en/on/get-help/articles/Public-Points-Rewards

tzliu
Model Citizen / Citoyen Modèle

@gpixel  that would have nothing to do with you, but thank you very much for your suggestion.

@tzliu 

I don't believe you're at the right company

 

switch to phonebox and call it a day

https://gophonebox.com/plans/

 

tzliu
Model Citizen / Citoyen Modèle

Thank you for all trying to tell the virtue of PM points system.  No one understands this - if PM were to reward you points, then it is YOUR points/money to spend, not PM's anymore.  The reward point has to be based on the plan cost not how much out of your pocket.  You PAID for the whole plan.  

gpixel
Mayor / Maire

@tzliu 

if one is looking to maximize the points every cycle then one can wait till they have enough points for a free month before redeeming and using it towards their bill.

DDM69
Deputy Mayor / Adjoint au Maire

It’s very clear what the point system is all about and I chose to stay on the old system. It was clear to me not to switch. It’s unfortunate that you don’t like the decision you made and somehow consider it “fraud”. You should call the police and see what they say 🤪

HI @tzliu   another good thing to the reward system is friend referral. Bring a friend in and you get 1 Public Point every cycle for as long as your friend stay.  I am not saying you have to be a sales, but if you have any family member , any friends, ask them to join and you get a long and lasting discount, nothing better than that.  

 

Since you have a $41.25 plan, you already have 2 Points per cycle.  Then a easy Community involvement can easily get you another 1 point or 2 point, So, you get around 4 points per cycle easily, that is a $4 worth of points. 

 

darlicious
Mayor / Maire

@tzliu 

You have to make the points program work for you. The 5% back in points is okay but it's not the most lucrative way of earning points. It's just a passive way just like the anniversary points are.... You pay you earn and you stay you earn. But if you refer those are points that will continue to earn every month if you have customers that are happy with their service and you refer customers that understand how Public Mobile works.

 

You can also earn by participating in the community. The more you're on the community the more you learn the easier it is to refer people and help others which will earn you community points. Earning one or two points for the top 50% or top 25% contributor levels is fairly easy. And you will learn how to manage your account so that you can pass your knowledge on to others. Get more active here and it will pay dividends later.

 

I am technologically challenged. I knew nothing about phones or public mobile when I first joined and I still struggle with computer. But I dove in head first and within a couple of months my first account has a $0 bill. After 1 year my second account has a $0 bill. I have learned an incredible amount about technology in the past 3 years. And it was the community that did it. Just as they mentored me we will help mentor you and you will be headed towards a lower bill cost. Mind you you have to redeem those bill credits but in the end you will have a much lower bill than before and that will not happen anywhere else.

..its definitely not fraud if it is just misunderstanding of the plan details or just personal dislike

Metal1967
Deputy Mayor / Adjoint au Maire

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@tzliu months service.. no fraud here…

 
 

softech
Oracle
Oracle

@tzliu not sure which one you are planning to go if you are leaving PM.  But PM's reward can turn into bill credit and can really lower your final out of pocket amount.  So, if the plan amount with new provider you are planning to go is the same, you likely will still save money staying here, might not be significant with this new system, but a saving is a saving, still netter than no saving

 

 

 

will13am
Oracle
Oracle

@tzliu , no doubt the new points system is less rewarding than the old system.  The terms are very clear that points are earned based on spending.  Redeeming points is not spending money.  As mentioned, it's not every cycle that there's be points redemption.  If you find better value elsewhere by all means vote with your wallet.  Leaving because of a misunderstanding will not necessarily equate to a win.

Metal1967
Deputy Mayor / Adjoint au Maire

@tzliu  it is what is is.. yes it’s not the same as before.. but it’s explained in the terms of service  what you get.. a large corporation isn going to lie / cheat and steal to attract  people looking for a cost effective way to have a call service…

tzliu
Model Citizen / Citoyen Modèle

This is NOT rewarding.  It is great that you and others are very happy with it.  

Hi @tzliu that does not sound right.

 

You likely won't get $15 bill credit every month

 

And, no other provider give you discount rewards like PM

 

And, the points idea is like credit card cash back.  CC cash back is on your spending,  not the bill amount  A 1% cash back on a $1000 bill is $10.  But if you apply $200 reward credit and the bill becomes $800, your cash back becomes $8.  Same idea, what's wrong?

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