3G vs 4G vs 5G

[zulu53]

Now that 5G has been deployed and the 4G service being unloaded when will PM be changing the data service to 4GLTE?   Being one generation behind is acceptable for the lower costs of PM vs Telus but 2 generations - is that not starting to push the bounds of acceptable business practice?  I always compare Canada to Australia (similar country where the population is concentrated in a 50-75 km high band - 3000 km wide).   The costs of PM are about what Optus charge EXCEPT they include 4G LTE.  Should PM put pressure on Telus to give better service?

[LitlLdy]

I’ve read through everyone’s messages and I’m one of the ones that rely on PMs low priced basic plan (as I call it) and stay due to being affordable for my basic needs for calls, text and small amount of data. I use data for emergencies like checking bank account while out or necessary things needed that can’t wait until I get home. I have internet at home that I use my iPad to do everything with not my iPhone (minus calls and text). However even though I do pay a very low price for my plan I “need” my calls to work and even more so for emergencies, along with working text now and then. The more needs we require will be the higher costs. Especially if we want faster customer service and live customer service/tech support to talk to (through phone calls), faster speed internet and so on.

I am hoping I wrote all this in words that can be understood due to I often have issues with my thoughts not coming out well or mixed up so I apologize ahead of time. 😃. My point I wanted to make was as time goes on customers like me with basic needs and even disabilities are finding it more difficult to find affordable plans for basics. I hope that we don’t lose this all together to only serve those that can and will pay higher prices so they can get more...

Someone please help me word all this better!

[gpixel]

@WoozyPolarBear I think you're still a little bitter about your referral issues...

most of customers of pm are trying to look for better deals and don't care about data. I don't think the third tier will disappear simply because they will not be able to meet the demand. Koodo prepaid will never be cheaper than postpaid. this is what entices people to move to postpaid. Telus also needs to offer service to customers with bad credit

[Korth]

@WoozyPolarBear 

I am curious ... if you argue this "horse and carriage" data throttle so "unacceptable" then why do you stay with PM? I'm guessing that any reason you might offer will ultimately lead back to a variation of "because it costs less".

[WoozyPolarBear]

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@Luddite wrote:

@WoozyPolarBear "The times keep changing and moving forward...PM has to keep up or get out of the way."

Sorry to say, this is impossible. Telus now totally controls PM's service and plans and the result is clear to me:

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Any company that says it's impossible to innovate or move forward has already become irrelevant. Secondly, the bulk of PM users do not have substantial rewards. Most probably have the autopay reward and that's about it. 

I'll stand by my opinion that if PM doesn't increase the 3 Mbps throttle, then PM will most definitely cease to exist for much longer. Nobody in 2021 and beyond would find using a dialup modem acceptable...nope, 2 decades ago the industry moved forward. They didn't just throw up their hands up in the air and say it's impossible. If we did that, we all would still be using America Online and being greeted by "you've got mail" sound bites. , Even simple web browsing in the future will be painful to use at these speeds.

[Luddite]

@WoozyPolarBear "The times keep changing and moving forward...PM has to keep up or get out of the way."

Sorry to say, this is impossible. Telus now totally controls PM's service and plans and the result is clear to me:

a) PM has enough customers, and no need to drive a large influx while it's churn rate is extremely low

b) if VoLTE will run at 3 mbps there is nothing to drive up the offered speed

c) the bulk of PM customers now have enough rewards that no competitor is cheaper

In addition, the recent CRTC ruling is not going to drive prices down, and certainly not in PM's market segment. If anything, this ruling will support price increases for big data users using full speed LTE & 5G.

[WoozyPolarBear]

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@Korth wrote:

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@WoozyPolarBear wrote:
I agree, and I think that's exactly where PM is heading...dead in the water. It's 2021 for crying out loud. 3 Mbps isn't going to cut it anymore.

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I'm not so convinced 5G or even 4G is really worth as much as people think, they're just "luxury" commodities which cost more. 3G will still be around for as long as people prefer not to spend more.

Some people drive $100K cars. Technically superior machinery, capable of driving much faster.

But more people drive $20K cars. Capable of driving fast enough.

And as long as people keep buying the "cheaper but good enough" options it remains profitable to keep manufacturing and selling them.

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You are making an analogy about cars, but when we are talking about the 3 Mbps throttle, I think the horse and carriage analogy would be more on point.

[gpixel]

it's because you are not a high data user @Korth. the throttle is not good... not just that, the quality and consistency of the LTE connection is sub par. 

[Korth]

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@WoozyPolarBear wrote:
I agree, and I think that's exactly where PM is heading...dead in the water. It's 2021 for crying out loud. 3 Mbps isn't going to cut it anymore.

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I'm not so convinced 5G or even 4G is really worth as much as people think, they're just "luxury" commodities which cost more. 3G will still be around for as long as people prefer not to spend more.

Some people drive $100K cars. Technically superior machinery, capable of driving much faster.

But more people drive $20K cars. Capable of driving fast enough.

And as long as people keep buying the "cheaper but good enough" options it remains profitable to keep manufacturing and selling them.

[WoozyPolarBear]

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@hTideGnow wrote:

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@WoozyPolarBear wrote:

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As time goes on, the longer and longer that PM has a 3 Mbps data cap, the less and less people will sign up with this brand. 3 Mbps for cell phone data in 2021 is starting to look a lot like the equivalent of having dialup modem for home internet.

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That I do not agree... 3Mb is still decent speed for general web browser.  Keep in mind, PM is mainly targeted for people who has financial constraint  or older age group who does not use data what much.    Yes, those who are paying > $40 will not stay here long, there will notice the speed and will shop for better deals elsewhere with full LTE speed.

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I don't agree with your statement either. Even simple web browsing is evolving. With HTML 5, the majority of websites are multimedia in their content now. This isn't 1998 anymore, where 99% of webpages had a single banner image on the top followed by paragraphs of text. Web browsing today is filled with streaming videos, full on applications, gaming, cloud computation, etc. The times keep changing and moving forward...PM has to keep up or get out of the way.

[WoozyPolarBear]

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@Korth wrote:

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@zulu53 wrote:

Now that 5G has been deployed and the 4G service being unloaded when will PM be changing the data service to 4GLTE?   Being one generation behind is acceptable for the lower costs of PM vs Telus but 2 generations - is that not starting to push the bounds of acceptable business practice?

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Long story short, if you decide the product/service is "unacceptable" then you have the option of buying an "acceptable" product/service somewhere else.

If enough PM customers do this then PM will be forced to change their business model. If not enough PM customers do this then it seems their business model is working well enough.

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I agree, and I think that's exactly where PM is heading...dead in the water. It's 2021 for crying out loud. 3 Mbps isn't going to cut it anymore.

[hTideGnow]

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@WoozyPolarBear wrote:

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As time goes on, the longer and longer that PM has a 3 Mbps data cap, the less and less people will sign up with this brand. 3 Mbps for cell phone data in 2021 is starting to look a lot like the equivalent of having dialup modem for home internet.

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That I do not agree... 3Mb is still decent speed for general web browser.  Keep in mind, PM is mainly targeted for people who has financial constraint  or older age group who does not use data what much.    Yes, those who are paying > $40 will not stay here long, there will notice the speed and will shop for better deals elsewhere with full LTE speed.

[Korth]

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@zulu53 wrote:

Now that 5G has been deployed and the 4G service being unloaded when will PM be changing the data service to 4GLTE?   Being one generation behind is acceptable for the lower costs of PM vs Telus but 2 generations - is that not starting to push the bounds of acceptable business practice?

---

Long story short, if you decide the product/service is "unacceptable" then you have the option of buying an "acceptable" product/service somewhere else.

If enough PM customers do switch away from PM then PM will be forced to change their business model.

If enough PM customers stay with PM this then it seems PM's business model is working well enough.

[WoozyPolarBear]

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@hTideGnow wrote:

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With PM not offering VoLTE, retiring 3G might also means the end of PM.  Yes, the one brand idea is ideal situation.  In fact, I think even Rogers/Bell/Telus want it this way (less marketing costs at least)  , but likely CRTC forces them to keep the 3 tiers to  create the illusion of competition and choice.

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As time goes on, the longer and longer that PM has a 3 Mbps data cap, the less and less people will sign up with this brand. 3 Mbps for cell phone data in 2021 is starting to look a lot like the equivalent of having a dialup modem for home internet by comparison.

[hTideGnow]

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@WoozyPolarBear wrote:

I fully agree. PM should remain 1 generation behind the main carriers. Technically, PM does use 4G LTE, but it's artificially capped at 3 Mbps. This speed restriction is getting a bit long in the tooth though, and it's probably time PM bumps this up to something like 12-20 Mbps. There will come a time when it makes more sense to sign up with the main carrier or it's second tier carrier if PM doesn't keep pace with the industry progression.

What I expect to happen though is completely different. If anything, Telus is probably going to abandon the 3rd tier at some point down the road, and just integrate PM customers into Koodo. It's also my opinion that the main carriers like Telus, Bell, and Rogers should never have been able to own "flanker" carriers in the first place. It's intentionally confusing to give the illusion that there is competition. The CRTC should only allow mobile providers to operate under one brand name period, but offer different levels of service.

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Honest, I doubt they would move the cap up for any reason.. unless 5G standard and 3G is retired, but that might be 5 years at least

With PM not offering VoLTE, retiring 3G might also means the end of PM.  Yes, the one brand idea is ideal situation.  In fact, I think even Rogers/Bell/Telus want it this way (less marketing costs at least)  , but likely CRTC forces them to keep the 3 tiers to  create the illusion of competition and choice.

[WoozyPolarBear]

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@hTideGnow wrote:

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@LurganIeUk wrote:

Recently I posted 2 full articles that show  CRTCs expectations. It was rudely merged  to another posting in the lounge. My post and comments were fully deleted twice. So am currently pi$$ed off. 

Here is part of it.  And does NOT say what kind of data service. So no doubt it won’t be the best.

The CRTC expects SaskTel, Bell, Telus and Rogers to offer and promote, on their premium brands, low-cost plans that will have the following attributes:

• Maximum $35/month
• Unlimited Canada-wide incoming/outgoing calls and text messages
• Ability to send/receive multimedia messages
• Minimum 3 GB of data
• Bring your own device

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Would be interesting if their Premium brands also offer  $35/month plans.  Maybe that's why PM already adjusted it's $35 plan to make room for Telus to offer $35 plan (but of course with less data limit)

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I'm not holding my breath on that $35/3GB plan anytime soon. The CRTC is all bark but no bite. Chances are, the politicians (criminals) in this country will get paid off by the telecom suits (while attending one of their yacht parties with all you can eat caviar) to keep that plan off the table.

[hTideGnow]

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@LurganIeUk wrote:

Recently I posted 2 full articles that show  CRTCs expectations. It was rudely merged  to another posting in the lounge. My post and comments were fully deleted twice. So am currently pi$$ed off. 

Here is part of it.  And does NOT say what kind of data service. So no doubt it won’t be the best.

The CRTC expects SaskTel, Bell, Telus and Rogers to offer and promote, on their premium brands, low-cost plans that will have the following attributes:

• Maximum $35/month
• Unlimited Canada-wide incoming/outgoing calls and text messages
• Ability to send/receive multimedia messages
• Minimum 3 GB of data
• Bring your own device

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Would be interesting if their Premium brands also offer  $35/month plans.  Maybe that's why PM already adjusted it's $35 plan to make room for Telus to offer $35 plan (but of course with less data limit)

[WoozyPolarBear]

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I always compare Canada to Australia (similar country where the population is concentrated in a 50-75 km high band - 3000 km wide).   The costs of PM are about what Optus charge EXCEPT they include 4G LTE.  Should PM put pressure on Telus to give better service?

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I always think it's a joke when the carriers use the large geographical area of Canada argument to defend themselves. If you look at the actual mobile coverage area of Canada, you will see it actually covers a smaller area than the coverage area in the USA. Taking a loot at the Telus, Bell and Rogers coverage maps reveals that Alberta is fairly well covered, but everywhere else only has very tiny slivers of coverage. Alberta accounts for about 35% of the entire coverage area of the country, with the other provinces having much smaller areas served. It's not as if Telus, Bell or Rogers is putting up towers in the backwoods so that the moose, elk, bears and wolves can have LTE coverage.

[WoozyPolarBear]

I fully agree. PM should remain 1 generation behind the main carriers. Technically, PM does use 4G LTE, but it's artificially capped at 3 Mbps. This speed restriction is getting a bit long in the tooth though, and it's probably time PM bumps this up to something like 12-20 Mbps. There will come a time when it makes more sense to sign up with the main carrier or it's second tier carrier if PM doesn't keep pace with the industry progression.

What I expect to happen though is completely different. If anything, Telus is probably going to abandon the 3rd tier at some point down the road, and just integrate PM customers into Koodo. It's also my opinion that the main carriers like Telus, Bell, and Rogers should never have been able to own "flanker" carriers in the first place. It's intentionally confusing to give the illusion that there is competition. The CRTC should only allow mobile providers to operate under one brand name period, but offer different levels of service.

[LurganIeUk]

Recently I posted 2 full articles that show  CRTCs expectations. It was rudely merged  to another posting in the lounge. My post and comments were fully deleted twice. So am currently pi$$ed off. 

Here is part of it.  And does NOT say what kind of data service. So no doubt it won’t be the best.

The CRTC expects SaskTel, Bell, Telus and Rogers to offer and promote, on their premium brands, low-cost plans that will have the following attributes:

• Maximum $35/month
• Unlimited Canada-wide incoming/outgoing calls and text messages
• Ability to send/receive multimedia messages
• Minimum 3 GB of data
• Bring your own device

[HALIMACS]

@zulu53 

It wouldn't surprise me if with the big three that have three tiers of service,  they will taylor each of the generations toward the successive higher level tiers.

Telus 5G

KOODO 4G

PM 3G

The same will likely hold true for Bell and Rogers- just guessing.

[Triguy]

5G is still being rolled out to most major cities.  It is difficult to say when PM will change to 4G as they are a third tier provider.  They uses Telus and Bell towers which are 4G but throttle the speed to 3G.

[gpixel]

@zulu53 if you can figure out the timeline when chatr added 3g data to their plans you will be able to estimate if/when the third tier might deploy full speed LTE 

Rogers deployed LTE in 2013

chatr received it's first data plan around 2015-16 so I would say 2-3 years from now we will see a higher throttle limit or full speed.

the biggest thing pm customers need to look for is volte. if this feature isnt added to pm, than there will be no future. seeing the new business model for Telus it looks as though pm will stay. 

Telus is becoming more of a "home internet plan" for cellphones. 

Koodo is the mid range affordable

Public is for cheap and very affordable

[popping]

It will take time before PM will get the full LTE speed as 5G is not fully deployed.  Currently, we are getting LTE capped at 3Mbps or full 3G speed.

[darlicious]

@zulu53 

Having full speed 4G LTE at public mobile isnt going to happen anytime soon. This is the distinguishing factor between the three tiers that telus operates. Once 3G starts to get fully decommissioned and telus offers mostly 5G to its customers we may see pm drop throttled 4G LTE service.

[LurganIeUk]

@zulu53 

Now that is funny. 😀😀

PM appears to be a stepping stone to better positions in Telus so would you tell the hand that feeds you .........