Upcoming Changes to our Old Rewards Program

[J_PM]

Hey Community,

We have an important announcement to share with our subscribers who are currently enrolled in our old Rewards program.

We’re making changes to our rewards program and are sharing how these changes impact some of our subscribers. Starting in May, we’ll be retiring our old Rewards program and moving all subscribers to our Public Points™ program. 

We launched the Public Points™ program in January 2022 to provide our subscribers with more ways to earn and spend rewards, with greater flexibility. As part of our commitment to continuously evolve our products and services, it's time to retire our old Rewards program and shift our focus on enhancing our Points program.

To show our appreciation for your continued loyalty, subscribers on our old Rewards program will receive a special thank you. We'll send you a text message when it has been added to your account by March 31st. 

We’re excited to continue providing you, our valued subscribers, more opportunities to earn and spend rewards with Public Points™ moving forward.

To learn more about your move to Public Points, check out our FAQ here.

The Public Mobile Team

[golfball]

I'm not understanding. I didn't see any oracles or mods said anything about your intelligence. PM made the decision not any of the users here. As fixin has pointed out some posts are automatically removed by the system.

[ValeryD1]

Please cool of with posts "hot people"  😁

My situation is more than problematic, I pay for three lines and this will significantly hit the budget, I’ll see what can be done and how this will affect payments in the month of May. Paying the full price for three phones is not realistic, I will look for an alternative, especially since the PM outside the city is very dissatisfied with the quality of communication.
But first, let see what happen in May.

[colleeno]

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@sKRiBEL wrote:

My plan is currently $65 a month, but I have $9 of rewards, making my plan $56 a month. I can get the same plan from another provider for $55 a month plus the first 2 years at $35 a month. The only thing keeping me from switching was the loyalty program, and now that Public Mobile is no longer loyal to me, I don't need to be loyal to Public Mobile. Nearly 10 years of customer loyalty is circling the drain, and I'm sure I'm not going to be the only one to leave.

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If you haven’t been checking the Public Mobile plan offerings on a consistent basis, you might not be aware that the most expensive 5G plan now is $55. The best promotion currently is a 100GB Canada-U.S. plan for $50 or a 60GB Canada-U.S. plan for $39. And if you don’t require a Canada-U.S. plan, there is a 50GB Canada only plan for $34.

[fixin]

@upandadam - It could even be the auto moderator (Which really sucks on this community) that would have taken your post down:

https://productioncommunity.publicmobile.ca/t5/premod/moderationitemspage/tab/rejected

[upandadam]

You mean the community that was built based on loyalty engagement?

These "mods" will silence the truth. 

These same "mods" that questioned my intelligence on post?

Ha, go for it.

[JohnDoe3]

They could also stop the bleed without being disingenuous about it by setting a floor for using credits at each plan level such as it reflects the true cost of the service level. If they lose money at $8/m, then there's a margin from $8 to $15 (mandated maximum for the occasional-use service details), so what's the actual statistical average number where 100 outbound minutes, unlimited inbound minutes, unlimited texting, and 250mb data is actually not a net loss when amortized across the entire demographic of users at that plan level? Set that as the "credits will be applied automatically down to this point, and remaining credits will roll over to the following month", and then they'd have no bleed while also being upfront and honest about the minimum cost that they can bear to sustain budget customers, which was supposed to be part of their objective considering the whole self-help community aspect.

[fixin]

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@upandadam wrote:

Calm down, if this offends you then reevaluate.

Stop being a corporate shill and bending over. 

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@upandadam - Oracles and PM Reps are allowed to edit or sometimes archive other peoples posts that don't follow the community guidelines.

https://productioncommunity.publicmobile.ca/t5/Announcements/Community-Terms-of-Service-amp-New-Comm...

[RetiredGuy1]

An anology could be made to the federal govt’s media fund to subsidize mainstream media outlets which continues to ignite public debate about how it may impact journalists’ objectivity. Obviously on a much smaller scale, PM paying Oracles likely includes both those who believe its for altruistic purposes and others will be skeptical. Its human nature. I do agree with @ShawnC13 that, regardless of what side of that coin you’re on, we should all strive to remain respectful.

[Public_Cust_17]

@NoseyNick1   I think there are quite a few of us loyal customers (6 yrs for me) that have done the math and realized how much PM is going to stick it to us in another month! After patiently "doing my time" and getting my bill down to $8 ($15-$7 - no referrals that might now be pissed at me) it's a slap in the face and TOS blah, blah, blah... I know my exit strategy if they don't change their decision. 

I'm encouraging everyone to read over the email I drafted up and sent to The Standing Committee on Industry and Technology (E-mail: INDU@parl.gc.ca) and to use it as a starting point (or to create a new one themselves) and include all of their points in an email to the committee. The committee is currently reviewing the pricing policies of the mobile operators and I'd like them to have every complaint and bit of information that they can regarding PM's tactics.. the more they hear from might not help but it won't hurt.   Cheers

https://productioncommunity.publicmobile.ca/t5/Announcements/Upcoming-Changes-to-our-Old-Rewards-Pro...

[RetiredGuy1]

@Korth_ 

Well said and I agree wholeheartedly with your post. The only thing I would point out is that I believe subscribers are not necessarily a fixed resource as our population is growing each year. That, of course, takes nothing away from the gist of your post. Your last sentence speaks directly to what I’ve posted regarding the ripple effect on potential customers. Its easy to look at new subscriber rates from Jan 2022 to now but lets wait until May when people start seeing an increase in their bill and potential new subscribers see a resulting possible exodus before drawing any conclusions

[kb_mv]

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@JohnDoe3 wrote:

Good point. Does anyone know how to get news editors interested in writing up the rewards change into a news story.

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@JohnDoe3  Try googling "submit a news tip to (add agency)"

[JohnDoe3]

Good point. Does anyone know how to get news editors interested in writing up the rewards change into a news story.

[upandadam]

Calm down, if this offends you then reevaluate.

Stop being a corporate shill and bending over. 

[ShawnC13]

@Korth_ yes I mentioned the other day how I am sure my posts may get scrutinized a bit more by the community.  I am fine with it as long as people stay respectful

[Korth_]

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@ShawnC13 wrote:

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You better take a lap and start treating people with some respect.

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I do agree.

But I'm sure you recognize that people are going to naturally view "Public Mobile Community Oracles" with some suspicion when Public Mobile is unpopular. Everything you say (or don't say) will be carefully scrutinized for vulnerabilities.

Especially when emotions are running high. There is a lot of anger directed against Public Mobile (and Telus) right now.

(And especially when there is also a lack of intelligence, restraint, or respect.)

[sKRiBEL]

My plan is currently $65 a month, but I have $9 of rewards, making my plan $56 a month. I can get the same plan from another provider for $55 a month plus the first 2 years at $35 a month. The only thing keeping me from switching was the loyalty program, and now that Public Mobile is no longer loyal to me, I don't need to be loyal to Public Mobile. Nearly 10 years of customer loyalty is circling the drain, and I'm sure I'm not going to be the only one to leave.

[ShawnC13]

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@upandadam wrote:

You're being disingenuous and a corporate shill.

  They mentioned to us that we will never lose our loyalty discount.  This loyalty built engament that would never existed without it as their customer service was, and still is non existent.  They then build a bigger brand on the backs of said community.

PM lied and must be held accountable.

Stop bending over and take a lap to tighten back up. 

Yeesh what a fragile generation this is.

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@upandadam, not sure why you had to go with personal attacks.  You have no idea what "generation" I am from. Disingenuos for reading a ToS, a corporate Shill for knowing what provider works best for my family needs?

You better take a lap and start treating people with some respect.

[Korth_]

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@G_Pomzz wrote:

Based on all the negative comments regarding the rewards/points debacle. Is it possible that there could be several thousand or more defections to other providers. But if they move to Telus or Koodo, it's not really a loss.

But say 3,000 leave outright then 3,000 x $30/mth avg = $90,000/mth or $1,080,000 year loss. Is that really going to hurt the bottom line of a company with $14 billion in revenue? 

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I don't know the numbers, either.

But I do know that there's two important measures for Canadian telcoms.

The first is total number of subscribers.

This is perhaps the most important to them because it's what determines how much voting/purchasing power they get in the spectrum licensing auctions. They've formed an oligarchy - they've tacitly agreed to "protect" the market (ban or destroy competitors), they've essentially all formed an uneasy alliance where everybody gets a big slice of the pie instead instead of a free market where everyone constantly competes for a bigger slice of the pie (which would cost them a lot of money on aggressive marketing, research, innovation, expansion, etc). But I'm willing to bet that if one of the Big Three suddenly gains or loses a large number of subscribers then the balance will shift and a lot of money streams will flow to other destinations. The Big Three have settled into certain areas of dominance but I think a big number of customers moving from one to another will mean a change in spectrum allocations (because they don't put them where there's no subscribers, ie: not profitable) and subsequently a bunch of expensive network deployment which "permanently" installs the new owner in place.

Subscribers are a fixed resource in Canada. There's basically a fixed number of Canadians and basically every Canadian who could, should, or would have a phone already does have a phone. So there aren't many "new" subscribers entering the market and the providers are basically forced to steal subscribers from each other. If one loses while the other gains then it will fall two steps behind in the race. It loses subscribers, it loses spectrum licenses, it loses government subsidies, it loses money all across the board.

The second is average revenue per customer.

Higher numbers means more revenue, more profits. That's why they're constantly trying to migrate and upsell people towards higher-cost plans, that's why they're constantly trying to put limits on costly provisions and features (and Rewards) which raise their operational expenses.

Maybe a few dozen or a few hundred or even a few thousand angry subscribers leaving won't be a serious dent. Some might come back, some might passionately stay away "forever". Some will migrate to Telus or to Koodo, some will consciously avoid ever giving Telus/etc another dime. Some won't ever think about it again, some will explain their awful experiences with greedy Telus betrayals to anyone who will listen in an effort to keep all their loves ones away from a company they hate. I think that in the end, Public Mobile's behaviour on this issue will directly and indirectly cost Telus a lot more money over time than they expect.

[JohnDoe3]

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@eyes wrote:

Would anyone invest in a public traded company and not expect maximum possible profits?

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ESG champions and social justice warriors. There's new funds with many of the banks and mutual fund companies targeting "ethical investing". Same with CPP. They're supposed to maintain a singular focus on bringing maximum value to sustain benefits for program participants, but the government is pushing them to make ethics judgements on where they invest, like divesting themselves from oil and gas companies.

[JohnDoe3]

Very true. For-profit company is for profit. Largely this furor is an indicator if any of it reaches the ears of decision-makers that they may make more money off those who stay, they're potentially as likely to lose more money in lost subscriptions to people finding greener pastures. Maybe they've done the analysis and figured out the odds of enough people leaving to make it damaging vs. the revenue from increased baseline prices. Apart from that kind of appeal that people are making, it's barking up the wrong tree. The only ones interested in making costs for wireless and broadband services cheaper for people are parliamentary committees and CRTC. It's a bit like occupy-wallstreet... like really they're just laughing at you from their glass towers. The politicians are the ones who have the power to order changes, so that's where the balance of petitioning should be focused.

[RetiredGuy1]

@Wolfcore 

I’m undecided on what I will do until we get closer to May. But, Freedom does seem to be the trailblazer that PM once was. For my needs, their $149 annual plan at 4G speed works out to 2.5 GB avg per month at about $14 tax-in. Start out first for 1 month at $19 for 1GB to test their coverage. That’s what I’m noodling at this time but a lot can happen over the next 6 weeks.

[NoseyNick1]

So I am currently paying $15/mo, -$3/mo (for >3yrs loyalty) -$1/mo (friend referral) -$2/mo (autopay) = $9/mo
I was promised that after 5yrs as a loyal customer, I would be paying $15/mo -$5/mo (loyalty) -$1/mo (friend) -$2/mo (autopay) = $7/mo

However now I will be paying $15/mo, -5% (75c), -$10/yr (approx 82c/mo anniversary), -$1/mo (friend) = $12.43/mo, an unwelcome 38% increase
After 5yrs as a loyal customer, I'd still get $15/mo, -5% (75c), -$10/yr (approx 82c/mo anniversary), -$1/mo (friend) = $12.43/mo, an even less welcome 77% increase!

But "greater flexibility"? Really? And 5GB of data which would (best guess) take me nearly 5 years to use, except it expires in 5mo.

How about NO THANK YOU, PM? How about you "show your appreciation for my continued loyalty" in exactly the way you previously promised you would? That's what loyalty is about, PM, keeping promises!

[and I, too, have had to change my forum name because my previous one is in use BY ME but impossible to reclaim]

[RetiredGuy1]

That may be true but no matter how you spin it, this is not a good look for PM. You, like I, can’t predict the future. How much potential growth will they now lose after this slap in the face to those who built the company?  If you feel PM is the best deal for yourself, then stay here. As for me, I’m waiting until May to see what the landscape is at that time before deciding.

[Wolfcore]

Nobody would defect to Koodo or Telus regardless, as they aren't competitive at all (not in terms of budget-brand telecoms like PM at least). What I've been seeing the most (and are far more likely), are places like Freedom, PC Mobile, Fizz, and Lucky.

Freedom is changing the game right now, and they just keep pushing. They just released a $45 15GB 5Gb plan that roams in 81 countries. For me personally, I'll most likely be hopping over to Freedom, because they just make the most sense. 

[upandadam]

You're being disingenuous and a corporate shill.

  They mentioned to us that we will never lose our loyalty discount.  This loyalty built engament that would never existed without it as their customer service was, and still is non existent.  They then build a bigger brand on the backs of said community.

PM lied and must be held accountable.

Stop bending over and take a lap to tighten back up. 

Yeesh what a fragile generation this is.

[ShawnC13]

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@upandadam wrote:

34 US plan here with $7 in loyalty + auto pay. 

I'm out the minute my card is charged at a different rate than I agreed to. 

Along with disputes to both agencies and through my CC.

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@upandadam well that is everyones right to try.  If you are on autopay then you are automatically agreeing to the current ToS at the time of each renewal and price of the plans at each renewal as we aren't under contract and each new cycle is a new contract.  Our contract with PM is only for 30 or 90 days, you decide if you continue each time.

[Korth_]

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@G_Pomzz wrote:

@RetiredGuy1 

Yup, the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

PM has probably responded to more CCTS complaints in the last month than in the history of the company. 

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It's not the first time - https://www.ccts-cprst.ca/lessons-from-the-public-mobile-price-increase/

Judging by the numbers and types of replies in this thread - and by Public Mobile's edits of their original announcement - and by the conspicuously low number of Bravo upvotes - and by what people are saying about it all at other sites like reddit and RFD (not to mention all the usual media vultures who try to present their opinions about the matter as facts) - Public Mobile's employees will be busy responding to some CCTS inquiries.

But I think the sad truth of the matter is that Public Mobile hasn't in fact done anything wrong. At least not in any technical or legal way. We "agreed" to the terms of service in the Rewards program, and we "agreed" that they could change those terms at any time, and we even "agreed" in advance that we already "agree" to these hypothetical new terms. They gave us (exactly) one billing cycle worth of advance notice, as specified in their own Terms.

The way Public Mobile (Telus) cut out loyalty bonuses quietly, sneakily after dark before making their announcement about Rewards-customers-being-moved-to-Points the very next morning was slimy and unethical (and a bit cowardly) - it feels like a premeditated rip-off to pad somebody's pockets at the cost of devaluing the loyalty of many long time customers - but passing judgement on those qualities is beyond CCTS and CRTC mandates.

I guess losing all the "expenses" attached to the Rewards program, along with many generally money-conscious (low plan cost) subscribers will temporarily boost Telus's ARPU numbers at their next shareholder/investor meetings. Look at how we "increased profit margins" and "raised the average revenue per subscriber". I've seen them gaslight their customers so I would expect them to gaslight everyone else they deal with, too.

[ShawnC13]

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@RetiredGuy1 wrote:

@G_Pomzz 

How many existing customers leaving is a tangible measurement. But consider the intangible effect. Namely, potential new customers from the other telecoms (tier 1, tier 2, tier 3) and first-time subscribers. Its a competitive market and many people are undecided which way to go. If the deciding factor is the feeling that Telus(PM) can’t be trusted, that could be the deciding factor to stay away. If the backlash were to grow large and loud enough, Telus(PM) might blink and make, at the very least, some meaningful concessions. One thing is certain, without any negative feedback, we might as well line up outside of Telus’ HQ, drop our pants, bend over and grab our ankles…

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@RetiredGuy1 All providers have that image with someone.  You talk with people and hear I will never deal with Rogers or won't deal with Bell and some already were like that with Telus.  You gotta go where it is the best deal for yourself.  PM has had huge amounts of new subscribers see the reward points were introduced so they have been growing without having to discount there plans like they were.  They have obviously reached a point where this growth will offset any loss of Legacy Reward users leaving

[upandadam]

34 US plan here with $7 in loyalty + auto pay. 

I'm out the minute my card is charged at a different rate than I agreed to. 

Along with disputes to both agencies and through my CC.

[fixin]

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@umnikke8 wrote:

Boo

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@umnikke8 - Wow - your the FIRST one to post here... look how far it has gone.

Boo