Prorated refund for porting out?

[sheytoon]

Let me start by saying I don't have any plans to leave PM, but I always considered the 90-day plans to be a disadvantage for us, because they might make it hard to leave.

I'm just wondering if someone was to port out from PM when they are 10 days into their 90 day cycle, would they receive a prorated refund for the unused 80 days?

Has anyone ported out and have experience with this? My only concern is that prices may rise over long term and it may be tricky to leave once other operators have lower priced plans.

Curious to hear what everyone's thoughts are.

[sheytoon]

That's interesting to hear, because my experience has been the opposite. I've gotten multiple pro-rated refunds from Rogers, Bell and their sub-brands only after complaining to CCTS. Anyway, let's see how it goes. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this topic!

[computergeek541]

---

@sheytoon wrote:

@computergeek541
I agree with everything you said. I think if someone challenged this and asked CCTS for a refund, they would have a strong case.

---

Unfortunately, the CCTS isn't on the customer's side.  If anything, they only go with the status quo.  The rules say that carrier don't have to refund prepaid customers, and therefore they aren't going to order it.  They only folllow the rules based on 1. Wireless Code and 2. carrier's terms of service.  They won't make/set new rules.

Remember when carrier's weren't forced by the Wirelss Code to issue prorated refunds after a customer ported out?  Well, guess what?  I complained about Rogers outright refusing to provide a refund even though they wouldn't provide any service for the funds that they were keeping, and CCTS said "too bad" because it was in the terms of service that they were allowed to.  They ignored the legalities of a company charging for services but then not providing them and will only rule based on specific cellular industry rules that are already in place.

So if there's any hope of getting refunds (even for prepaid customers) and not allowing carriers to keep money when service is not provided, we need to first get the rules changed.

[sheytoon]

@computergeek541
I agree with everything you said. I think if someone challenged this and asked CCTS for a refund, they would have a strong case.

@jeffster1970
I'm not as comfortable losing up to $120 in effective cancellation fees for no good reason. That's a lot of money, especially since there's no hardware subsidy.

[jeffster1970]

My opinion is that if prices rise enough here and decrease enough elsewhere, even losing 89 days wouldn't be an issue for me. 

Example, I am on the FM Promo. Suppose it eventually dissolves or increase in price and it ends up being $160/90 days (still a promo'd price). Meanwhile, Koodo (I say this because I don't love the Rogers (Fido) network, and it'll be sometime before Shaw (Freedom Mobile) comes close to coverage as Telus (Koodo/PM)) comes up with a $50/month plan comparable to PM. No reason for me to stick around, and I'll make my losses back within a year. 

I took a loss coming to PM from FM, being that I had to pay off my Tab. And I am not saving much money by being here ($35 + roaming with Freedom).  However, having reliable and fast mobile was important to me.   I think for PM, not worrying about roaming and overages is nice. And it's easy to go over on post-paid accounts. I have to monitor my usage, just like I would for any provider (except Freedom), but occasionally you can blow through a couple hundred magabytes of data just before the billing cycle ends, which ends up pricey. That can happen here too, of course, but you just end up with no data for a few hours or a day or 2. 

Just my 3 cents worth. 

[computergeek541]

---

@sheytoon wrote:
Ok so what's the difference between prepaid and postpaid? Even for postpaid accounts with Bell/Telus/Rogers, you always have to pay for a full month in advance.

I'm a bit confused.

---

Quite honestly, the ways that rule is set is pretty much just arbitrary.  The carriers don't want to refund because they argue that the customer has already put money into the account and therefore, there shouldn't be any refunds. 

It's easy for me to say this from a customer standpoint, but I do not believe any carrier should be able to keep any funds until after the service has been provided.  Where it does get tricky is that in the case of Public Mobile, they are giving a discounted plan in return for the 90 day contract/commitment (yes, legally is is most definitely a contract  - it is when you buy anything anywhere).  I fully believe that carriers should be forced to issue prorated refunds both on prepaid and postpaid.  Keeping the monies for a service not provided doesn't sit well with me.  But, that's just my opinion, and pretty much all carriers do this to prepaid customers.  There was a time that carriers also did this to postpaid customers by either charging them until the end of the billing cycle or for an extra 30 days after a port out.  The CRTC eventually put an end to this after years of public backlash.  I don't see why things should be any different for prepaid customers.

With postpaid, customers a really doing the same thing - paying for the next month's service in advance.  Most people likely fail to realize that so-called post-paid plans are really "prepaid"/paid in advance as well.  The only difference is that postpaid customers get billed for extra usage after the billing cycle ends.  As for why carriers refund/return the payments for those extra days where no service is provided?  For the most part, it's because for postpaid customers, they don't have a choice.

---

[sheytoon]

@xCameron94x

As mentioned by @srlawren, the regular monthly charges are pre-paid, while the overages are post-paid.

See sample Rogers bill of Nov 1, 2011, where I was billed for Nov 2-Dec 1:

See sample Bell bill of June 1, 2017, where I was billed until June 30:

The only difference with Public Mobile is that there are no overages. Other than that, the service is billed exactly like "postpaid" services.

[srlawren]

@xCameron94x this is not at all an expert or definitive reply, and it's been over 1.5 yrs since I was last on a post-paid service, but I believe @sheytoon is correct in that for for month X's bill, you pay for month (x+1)'s regular plan amount plus month x's overages.

So if you were on a monthly post-paid plan and your billing cycle always started on the first of the month, then tomorrow (July 1st, 2017) Telus would invoice you for your July 2017 plan costs plus any additional costs you incurred curing the month of June 2017--i.e. data overages, US roaming fees, long distance, etc.  I believe it's only the parts above and beyond your regular monthly plan cost that are actually billed post-usage, while you are paying for the regular plan costs pre-usage.  None-the-less these are referred to as post-paid plans.

EDIT:  I should add:  also any plan adjustments that occurred during the month that just ended.  So, if you changed your plan on June 20th to a more expensive plan, your July 1st (in my example above) invoice would also include the pro-rated difference amount covering June 20th-June30th.  Or, if you changed you plan on June 20th to a less expensive plan, you'd have an adjustment (credit) of the prorated difference covering the period of June 20th-30th.  

Now, I could be wrong, so again please don't take this as gospel.  I'm going on recolection from my past post-paid Telus statements.

[xCameron94x]

@sheytoon there is some confussion. Post means "After". Also with post paid, your first bill also includes a pro-rated charge for the first few days before your billing cycle is actually determined. You do not see any pro-rated charges with pre-paid.

This is taken from CRTC

you have postpaid services if you receive a bill at the end of the month that tells you what charges you’ve accumulated for the month – your bill might be the same each month or you might see extra charges (e.g., you went over your data for the month). You pay for the services you’ve already used

 You have prepaid services when you top up your account to activate your services for the month. If you forget to pay, chances are that your services will be temporarily suspended until you top up your account. You pay for the services you’re planning on using.

But perhaps a orcale can add clarrifcation @srlawren

[sheytoon]

I understand the overages, but postpaid is not paid after. Check your old bills, you always pay for the upcoming month in full, and overages are shown on next month's bill.

If postpaid was truly billed after, there would never be a need for partial refunds.

[xCameron94x]

Post paid is where you pay after the service. This is where you can get overage charges (data overage, long distance, roaming usage). You are billed after one month, not before. You do not pay for the plan upon sign up for a post paid account.

Pre-paid is you paying before your service. This is so you dont see any surprise charges (f you run out of data, your data will just shut off, not conitnue like it would with post paid. You paid public mobile before you could start to use their service.

Edit: By service I mean the billing month/period 

[sheytoon]

Ok so what's the difference between prepaid and postpaid? Even for postpaid accounts with Bell/Telus/Rogers, you always have to pay for a full month in advance.

I'm a bit confused.

[ShawnC13]

There would be no refund as it is pre-paid.  I don't see the 90 day contract as much of an issue as the other providers who subsidize the phones.  You probably have a greater liability leaving one of them earlier then you do with leaving PM during your 90 day contract.  The amounts of payout to "purchase" the phone is what ties many to the other main providers.

[shawnie_boy]

This is the main disadvantage of PM. The best plan is 90 days, so you take the risk. 

Also consider this if you want to port out. 

Sign up for new plan elsewhere and get new number. Use both sims for the remainder of the 90 days and then port over close to when 90 days are up. Sure it costs more, but at least you don't lose the PM service and you can go crazy with the 12gb data.

[SD08]

Unfortunately, since PM is all prepaid, there are no refunds.  I can only see a refund happening in the case of an error.

[xCameron94x]

Public Mobile is all pre-paid, so highly unlikely that you will see a refund. Thats one of the risks faced with picking a 90 day plan along with a pre-paid service

Edit: Post-paid is a different story as I got a refund from Koodo after porting out.