Upcoming Changes to our Old Rewards Program

[J_PM]

Hey Community,

We have an important announcement to share with our subscribers who are currently enrolled in our old Rewards program.

We’re making changes to our rewards program and are sharing how these changes impact some of our subscribers. Starting in May, we’ll be retiring our old Rewards program and moving all subscribers to our Public Points™ program. 

We launched the Public Points™ program in January 2022 to provide our subscribers with more ways to earn and spend rewards, with greater flexibility. As part of our commitment to continuously evolve our products and services, it's time to retire our old Rewards program and shift our focus on enhancing our Points program.

To show our appreciation for your continued loyalty, subscribers on our old Rewards program will receive a special thank you. We'll send you a text message when it has been added to your account by March 31st. 

We’re excited to continue providing you, our valued subscribers, more opportunities to earn and spend rewards with Public Points™ moving forward.

To learn more about your move to Public Points, check out our FAQ here.

The Public Mobile Team

[JohnDoe3]

Indeed. I presently pay $5+tx monthly. Annually that's $60.

Under the new plan, I'll have to pay $15*12= $180. PM will get to benefit from sitting on that money from all their users in aggregate until they have to give some back. By year end, the points will be worth $10 loyalty and 5% of $180 = $9 (less if the 5% reward rounds off any) and referrals of $4/m. Net annual points 10+9+4*12=67 of which I can only recover 60 in the calendar year, but we'll go with decimals to keep the long-term average going. Net loss of $53 a year. The only to make up any of that is to push the referral bonuses even more, but good luck convincing people when the value of the offering is no longer the most economical choice for people looking for a "budget" plan.

[JDBlue1966]

Nope. 

[JDBlue1966]

Yes

[JDBlue1966]

Nope. Their rules, say they can change whatever they like. Only thing we can do, is find another provider, or bend over. 

[Mike409991]

If I don't opt in , it's automatic switch to points rewards programs?

[Mike409991]

It's a good thing ?

[Dunkman]

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@ejc wrote:

The new points program seems to be much less rewarding than the old program. With the old program, I get a $9 discount every month, while the new program only provides me with a $3 discount. Is there any way to opt out of the new points program?

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@ejc 

Starting in May, all legacy customers will be switched over to the new points system.  No customers can opt out of the migration. 

However, if you really wanted to you, you can opt out of the rewards points system afterwards.  Then you will get no rewards at all unfortunately.   Points rewards system is better than no rewards at all.  Of course, the legacy rewards is still the best for savings, but it will be phased out by May.  

[Mike409991]

I would say PM is fair , affordable service. 

[Wolfcore]

Once again, your reading comprehension is very low. I've always said that they are most likely legally protected, and that a class action isn't worth it. I'm not ignoring anything, that information has been available since the beginning, it's nothing new. You've literally discussed that exact line with me already, like a week ago lmao. I still believe that there's a possible case for false advertising, but that's something that would take years anyway, and not do much for these customers. People are capable of having multiple thoughts at once, there's a chance of both. If you've seen a message of mine explicitly saying that they 100% legally in the wrong, and would definitely lose a lawsuit based on this, please point me to my own messages, I'd love to see them.

How many times have I repeated myself saying that this goes beyond what they are legally allowed to do, and what they aren't? I've compared it to 2018 a million times, stating that even back then, they were "legally" allowed to do it, but they caved anyway, because they obviously only care about their own rules so long as it doesn't garner negative backlash that could impact the business worse.

I know this is all very hard for you to comprehend, but try reading messages a bit better, and I'm sure you'll eventually be correct with the things you say. Enough people have definitely called you out on this, that's for sure.

[hTideGnow]

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@Wolfcore wrote:

Is it what it is. At this point, It doesn't even matter whether they are legally allowed to do it or not

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HI @Wolfcore 

you insisted earlier that PM broke the rule.  But now you found the sad truth, so you decide to just "ignore" it because you so want to save the couple bucks a month?? This is so consumers!!! 😂🤣

[hTideGnow]

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@Wolfcore wrote:

Ahh, very nice find. Definitely another one of those false advertising examples. 

They'll still claim that their ToS (terms you agree to when you signed up) said that they can change anything at anytime, but regardless, they're still openly lying to customers, and misleading them in order to purchase their product. 

I wonder if we can find an actual ToS/contract from back in those days, because that would be interesting to read.

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HI @Wolfcore 

i found it for you:

https://productioncommunity.publicmobile.ca/t5/Knowledge-Base/General-Reward-Rules/ta-p/164#:~:text=....

So, PM is fair, they can do it without advance notice but they are giving us 2 months notice

[RetiredGuy1]

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@Wolfcore wrote:

Yeah, so many little things like this that they can do, but that would just make them less profit, and they don't want that.

I've done a bit of math in that sense too though, and I think if they:

- got rid of the 5% from the system entirely (it's unattractive anyway)
- got rid of autopay
- keep the new referral point system, and ditch the old one
- add a few dollars onto the anniversary bonus each year for everybody (another option would be if they raised it to 12 points each year for example, split that into 1 point each month instead. It would be far more attractive, especially if they are considering expanding the points system and giving people new ways to collect)
- and let every legacy customer keep a flat $5 grandfathered point bonus every month

I think everything would even out. They'll still make a lot more profit over the old system, I don't think legacy customers would complain too much (protect their reputation a bit), they still get everyone moved over to the point system, and they'll keep most of their customers that are planning on leaving. A lot of people would still not be happy with the 15-point minimum, but it would definitely be a compromise that a lot of people would be willing to accept, I feel.

@Wolfcore 

Your last bullet is my favourite but, unfortunately, the one idea that would get the most resistance from PM (if I understand what you’re saying correctly).  The loyalty reward is, for all intents and purposes, at the heart of the change in programs. Even if not applying it on a monthly basis, a notional $5 is too much more than the equivalent of $.83 a month with the $10 in points that PM considers as “loyalty”. Plus, legacy folks with <5 years would actually gain monetary value and the chances of PM going for that is about the same as my Dallas Cowboys winning the Super Bowl next year (for those who don’t follow the NFL, insert “snowballs chance in hell” here)

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[jhhead]

Old Terms of Service:
 https://web.archive.org/web/20160313233634/http://www.publicmobile.ca/pdfs/Public_Mobile_Terms_of_Se...

Can the terms of service change?
Yes, Public Mobile has the right to change any of the terms of service, including rates, without notice. Changes become effective thirty days after being posted at publicmobile.ca/plans. By purchasing service after a change is posted, including by continuing to top up your account, you accept the current terms of service. You can cancel service at any time, without penalty or cancellation fees.

[Wolfcore]

Ahh, very nice find. Definitely another one of those false advertising examples. 

They'll still claim that their ToS (terms you agree to when you signed up) said that they can change anything at anytime, but regardless, they're still openly lying to customers, and misleading them in order to purchase their product. 

I wonder if we can find an actual ToS/contract from back in those days, because that would be interesting to read.

[jhhead]

General Reward Rules - Community (archive.org)

This is from MAY 21 2017 which is BEFORE they added the note about rewards can be changed. So I would say for anyone who has been with Public from before then would have something to dispute. 

I note the full screen capture makes it small so I added the 2nd one of just the loyalty part

The only talk about them reserving the right to make changes was relating to the community rewards (nothing specified under the loyalty section)

"How is Contribution Level determined?

The contribution level is determined on a calendar month basis from your relative support to other Community members. Relative support may vary from month to month, even if a customer contributes at a consistent level. In order to qualify for the monthly Community Rewards, customers must be on Rewards eligible plans and act in accordance with the Community Guidelines at all times.

Public Mobile reserves the right to change all aspects of the Community Rewards offer and it is subject to the reservation rights of moderation as described in Terms of Service for the Community.

Public Mobile reserves the right to adjust rewards at its sole discretion and without advanced notice."

[Public_Cust_17]

@Wolfcore  Well dagnabit! I already sent it before I saw this but thanks and maybe somebody else who sends an email to The Standing Committee on Industry and Technology (E-mail: INDU@parl.gc.ca) that are reviewing the mobile phone providers and their pricing can use that one... *wink wink nudge nudge* ppl  🙂

[Wolfcore]

Yeah, so many little things like this that they can do, but that would just make them less profit, and they don't want that.

I've done a bit of math in that sense too though, and I think if they:

- got rid of the 5% from the system entirely (it's unattractive anyway)
- got rid of autopay
- keep the new referral point system, and ditch the old one
- add a few dollars onto the anniversary bonus each year for everybody (another option would be if they raised it to 12 points each year for example, split that into 1 point each month instead. It would be far more attractive, especially if they are considering expanding the points system and giving people new ways to collect)
- and let every legacy customer keep a flat $5 grandfathered point bonus every month

I think everything would even out. They'll still make a lot more profit over the old system, I don't think legacy customers would complain too much (protect their reputation a bit), they still get everyone moved over to the point system, and they'll keep most of their customers that are planning on leaving. A lot of people would still not be happy with the 15-point minimum, but it would definitely be a compromise that a lot of people would be willing to accept, I feel.

[JDBlue1966]

Forgot to say. Then keep your points per month program. 

[JDBlue1966]

Have a suggestion for you. One that might make most customers more content. Plus save you loosing many present loyal customers, and future ones.

I suggest you let customers keep the rewards they have gained over the years. Then increase the plans everyone is on by $1. You would probably make more revenue, plus keep everyone generally satisfied. 

[Wolfcore]

Yeah, I've been over that message about 70 times in this thread haha.

Is it what it is. At this point, It doesn't even matter whether they are legally allowed to do it or not, this goes beyond that now. Just like in 2018, they were "legally" allowed to do what they did, but they still reversed their decision, because enough people spoke out and CCTS complaints were costing them heavily (and a false advertising suit was filed, from my recollection).

Regardless of whether that line means what you think it means ("change" is quite vague), they still blatantly lied in the previous sentences, and used what some would consider absolute false advertising (I've seen false advertising cases won on far less). Consumers don't like being outright lied to, and now they're speaking their mind (as they should).

There are consequences for actions, and if PM wants to lie to their customers that blatantly (and hide behind their "legal" ToS), that's cool. But now they'll have to deal with the consequences of making false statements to their customers, and what comes with that is the destruction of their reputation, a loss of current and future customers, as well as a ton of money that'll have to be paid to CCTS. Will all of these things be offset by the money they save by removing these rewards? Guess we'll find out.

[RetiredGuy1]

@Public_Cust_17 

Oh, I’m with you my friend. You’ve provided an excellent template and I will use the gist of it to send my own email. I too would encourage others to follow suit - it costs nothing but just a few minutes to cut-and-paste, perhaps tweak a bit, and hit send!

[JDBlue1966]

I kept your content 99.9% didn’t see any reason to word it different. Lets hope other do the same. 

[Public_Cust_17]

@RetiredGuy1  Standard disclaimer... I may go down, but I'm not going down without a fight!! 😂 🤣 😋

[Public_Cust_17]

@JDBlue1966  yeah, I actually made a couple of small changes to the version I posted before I sent it as well.  Cheers I hope they get a gazillion emails.. lol

[RetiredGuy1]

@Wolfcore 

Please don’t shoot the messenger here but this is at the bottom of that page:

Other Reward Rules

• Public Mobile reserves the right to change all Rewards at its sole discretion and without advance notice.

[RetiredGuy1]

@hTideGnow 

Perhaps generally speaking, some plans have come down in price when taking a multi-year snapshot. Of course, as a general statement, most would agree a lot were outrageously expensive back then so they really had no choice but to rein in some control on price points.

I’m referring to current market conditions. For, example PM’s recent promo of $34 for 50 GB 5G Can-US has ended and was effectively replaced with the current $39 for 60 GB 5G Can-US. So, in that example the price increased. This example is what I mean by the perception of better value (oh look, for only $5 I get 10 GB more). This is the approach PM (and all others really) are taking to capitalize on the FOMO attitude of customers while, at the same time, increase their ARPU.

[hTideGnow]

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@JennalynnFlesch wrote:

To let everyone on Legacy know, in the article by PM here; https://www.publicmobile.ca/en/bc/get-help/articles/move-to-public-points  they say we will NOT lose our rewards from the old program.  Here is the snipet from the article; 

'Any credits earned up to May, 2024 will remain on your account and be applied to your future bills'!!!!!  This clearly states that any rewards you currently have MUST BE HONORED!

LET'S HOLD THEM TO THIS!  

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Sorry @JennalynnFlesch    that line just meant the rewards you earned and already added to your account as Available Funds will not be gone.  The way to earn rewards will be charge and there will no more Loyalty rewards or autopay rewards.  

[hTideGnow]

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@ejc wrote:

The new points program seems to be much less rewarding than the old program. With the old program, I get a $9 discount every month, while the new program only provides me with a $3 discount. Is there any way to opt out of the new points program?

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HI @ejc  you don't want to opt out the points program, PM will have only 1 rewards system when May comes.  Opt out the only rewards would mean you don't even get the $3 off from Friend referral (btw, they will be paid in points first, collect 15 points to redeem $15)., and on this new system, at least you also get 10 points for anniversary 

We don't like it, the old rewards system will be gone, but still with the Public Points and don't opt out

[JDBlue1966]

Sent mine. I just copied yours and made a slight change. 

[JDBlue1966]

I will send one as well