Upcoming Changes to our Old Rewards Program

[J_PM]

Hey Community,

We have an important announcement to share with our subscribers who are currently enrolled in our old Rewards program.

We’re making changes to our rewards program and are sharing how these changes impact some of our subscribers. Starting in May, we’ll be retiring our old Rewards program and moving all subscribers to our Public Points™ program. 

We launched the Public Points™ program in January 2022 to provide our subscribers with more ways to earn and spend rewards, with greater flexibility. As part of our commitment to continuously evolve our products and services, it's time to retire our old Rewards program and shift our focus on enhancing our Points program.

To show our appreciation for your continued loyalty, subscribers on our old Rewards program will receive a special thank you. We'll send you a text message when it has been added to your account by March 31st. 

We’re excited to continue providing you, our valued subscribers, more opportunities to earn and spend rewards with Public Points™ moving forward.

To learn more about your move to Public Points, check out our FAQ here.

The Public Mobile Team

[hTideGnow]

hi @jimbobs2023 that's close to infinity but not exactly. 

Talk to someone in Accounting field and they will tell you a penny off is a penny off, that shouldn't be ignored just for convenience 

[jimbobs2023]

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@hTideGnow wrote:

hi @NoseyNick1 the rewards change is not a price hike.  The plan price is the same

some people had enoght friend referrals to bring it down to $0. you cannot say price increase infinity to $7 because of that..($0 to $7 is infinity%)

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@hTideGnow Context in math is important.  Use $.01 as the current bill (rather then $0) and then apply a $6.99 increase to that.  Does that help?

[LitlLdy]

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@HALIMACS wrote:

If the following is of any help, it’s been suggested by some over the years as possible causes to posts being relegated to the unmoderated wasteland:

1. wording resembling profanity, advertising or services.
2. incorrect URL’s or the wrong format, such as starting with http:/.
3. text similar to an HTML or elements of it...etc...
4. any wording that could be misinterpreted as an advertisement
5. spelling mistakes or issues related to spelling
6. avoiding long sequences of text by creating more paragraphs 

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@HALIMACS , my responses on posts have been getting randomly moved to the unmoderated section when trying to help other customers since the new design of this website , EverSafe and so on last year when I mentioned to  J_PM on a post that some Customers keep posting private information and she said that it being addressed, ever since then the spam filter has been targeting me! I have been waiting for her help on a support ticket on it for over 5 months now! Before that using the same wording and information always worked. Which is the same as many others post to help others!

[hTideGnow]

hi @eyes $10 was only increased to $13 

[Sam66]

I’ll definitely taking my business somewhere else after these changes! Old point system was great and simple. New system is a way to charge more money! 

[ShawnC13]

@eyes, thanks we understand that everyone is frustrated and upset.  While there has been more flexibility given doesn't mean it is a free for all and somethings do have to be moved

[hTideGnow]

hi @NoseyNick1 the rewards change is not a price hike.  The plan price is the same

some people had enoght friend referrals to bring it down to $0. you cannot say price increase infinity to $7 because of that..($0 to $7 is infinity%)

[NoseyNick1]

> hi @NoseyNick1 the biggest price increase with PM is a 30% hike

No, the biggest as a percentage is if you were on $15, minus $2 autopay, minus $5 loyalty, minus $7 referrals = $1/mo
... and will now be on $15, minus $7 referrals, minus 0.40c "5% points back" (5% of your payment, not 5% of your $15, right?), minus $10/year anniversary (call it 0.83c/mo) = $6.77/mo = a 577% increase.

I'm "only" going from a "promised" $7 after 5yrs to $12.47 = 78% increase

'Course these are all assuming we get a chance to (and remember to) spend our points, instead of having them automatically deducted every month, and assuming they remain 1pt=$1, otherwise :

$7 in referrals person goes $1/mo to $15/mo for a 1400% increase
My $7/mo to $15/mo for $114% increase

All examples above are much bigger than 30% anyway.

[hTideGnow]

thanks @HALIMACS for posting the ToC of Community, people didn't read or not follow rules and thought there is censorship here

[ShawnC13]

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@RetiredGuy1 wrote:

@ShawnC13 perhaps a silly question but am I correct in thinking the points program kicks in on each person’s renewal date in May? I assume it is since we’re on prepaid plans. If so, just for planning purposes, my cycle date is April 25 so I will want to decide a few days before May 24 (30 days later) for whatever I end up doing

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@RetiredGuy1, we haven't been told, but what you have laid out would be how I would think it is going to work.  Does that mean that is how it will play out no, but I can't see how else they would do it.  But PM probably has some crazy idea on how to impliment it.

[RetiredGuy1]

@ShawnC13 perhaps a silly question but am I correct in thinking the points program kicks in on each person’s renewal date in May? I assume it is since we’re on prepaid plans. If so, just for planning purposes, my cycle date is April 25 so I will want to decide a few days before May 24 (30 days later) for whatever I end up doing

[ShawnC13]

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@NoseyNick1 wrote:

> doesn't change the ToS that is agreed to every 30 days when you renew. 

This one could be interesting, legally, too. If I Autorenew every 30 days, do I actually accept the ToS? Automatically? Regardless? Including the hypothetical 1000% price increase? or the very real 70 to 100% increase?

I've arguably shot myself in the foot my posting here, sure, shown that I have seen the popup, but what if I...

• hadn't seen the popup (no need to log in if I autorenew right?)
• hadn't got the email (I've seen other people's, but never got it myself, and it's not in my spam, or even my email server logs),
• hadn't been texted (unless you count the 5GB/150 surprise, which does, for real, say "delivering on our promise" BTW, and "for your continued loyalty", but nowhere does it say "because our loyalty/Rewards are going away")
• didn't get the letter, fax, telegram, carrier-pigeon, or smoke signals

... would I still, legally-speaking, have accepted the new ToS / loss of loyalty / Rewards?   😕

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That would be interesting, to see and I think we will in May.    Personally knowing that there are no contracts here I would make sure to be checking in monthly for changes.  I inform my referrals of any changes, that are coming.  Sounds crazy but when I joined PM in 2016 I did read the ToS because it was almost a to good to be true plan at the time, and finding out that plan prices could change with simply posting a price change on the plan page was enough if you accepted on your next renewal "autopay" that was your new plan price.  That is what made me aware to check the plans page monthly

[hTideGnow]

hi @NoseyNick1 the biggest price increase with PM is a 30% hike and those government agencies ruled PM hadits right to do so and had give proper notices ahead 

[NoseyNick1]

> doesn't change the ToS that is agreed to every 30 days when you renew. 

This one could be interesting, legally, too. If I Autorenew every 30 days, do I actually accept the ToS? Automatically? Regardless? Including the hypothetical 1000% price increase? or the very real 70 to 100% increase?

I've arguably shot myself in the foot my posting here, sure, shown that I have seen the popup, but what if I...

• hadn't seen the popup (no need to log in if I autorenew right?)
• hadn't got the email (I've seen other people's, but never got it myself, and it's not in my spam, or even my email server logs),
• hadn't been texted (unless you count the 5GB/150 surprise, which does, for real, say "delivering on our promise" BTW, and "for your continued loyalty", but nowhere does it say "because our loyalty/Rewards are going away")
• didn't get the letter, fax, telegram, carrier-pigeon, or smoke signals

... would I still, legally-speaking, have accepted the new ToS / loss of loyalty / Rewards?   😕

... but honestly, even if that held water, legally, it's still the ToS versus ALL the other repeated promises/statements/marketing/pledges/assurances, time after time after time.

[RetiredGuy1]

Well, we’ll have to agree to disagree then. I recognize that, for some, spending a few dollars more each month is a bigger impact on their budget than others. But, I suspect the majority are upset over the principle of yet another corporate overlord trampling on us peons. I don’t quite understand your point about Points being around since 2022 and nobody posting here complaining about “second class savings” for those subs. The fact rewards program customers refused to switch to Points since it was introduced over two years ago speaks volumes in and by itself. Points subs never had the benefits of the rewards program so they’re not losing anything from the forced migration.

[hTideGnow]

hi @ShawnC13 and truth is, there is no winning class action against rewards system change of any kind. Sad fact but true 

[ShawnC13]

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@NoseyNick1 wrote:

If I wrote "5 years" on a contract, I'd be held to it. In most countries, if I say "5 years" in an advert, I'd better be ready to deliver it, or face penalties for false advertising. Marketing material still present on their own website can be considered to be somewhat legally binding too. "We can change this any time we want any way we want" is one of those contract stipulations that usually quickly falls apart in a court of law, especially when other promises (pledges, semi-binding statements, adverts, offers, whatever) have been made.

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The "contract" here is 30 days.  If that last part is true then why hasn't someone organized a class action?  I would think a class action lawyer would love to get something like this and stick it to somebody like Telus, if their  stipulations quickly fall apart in the court of law,

[hTideGnow]

hi @RetiredGuy1 people are not that interested in "protesting against large corporations", they are just fighting for their couoke $ savings per month.  

Public Points reward is not new, it was introduced in 2022.  None of the people replied here ever protest against the not so great value system . None of them questioned why some new subscribers got a second class savings. Just that one day they wake up and found out their wallet hurts and they start caring "PM is being greedy".  Consumers, including me, are greedy too .  Just that people now emphasize their "loyalty" and tone down the greed they have

[ShawnC13]

@NoseyNick1 , so why does everyone refer to information that was posted but not the ToS.  As we know every company to offer rewards is going to have the same sort of wording about being able to change/disconitnue the rewards at any time.  The ToS would have been worded like that from the start.  Going and getting meanings of words sure spell it out it doesn't change the ToS that is agreed to every 30 days when you renew.  

The move that really upset me was when they removed the 1pt for every 30 days you have been with PM conversion.  That would have been a few free months of service for many people.

[RetiredGuy1]

I’m not singling you out @hTideGnow as I know other posters are using the ToS and the legal right of PM to do what they did to defend their actions. But, I can’t help but feel taking that position is kind of like “not seeing the forest for the trees”. There’s a bigger picture here. PM touted/boasted/splashed all over their website how great the rewards program was and, lets be honest, it was arguably the best among all carriers. So successful that they leveraged the rewards program to build a customer base largely premised on the fact that, despite a lack of plan features other carriers offered, the bottom line was the discounted price offered hard-to-beat bang for your buck. Many posters here have stated that repeatedly. But now, just look at competitor plans. One could argue PM has gone from the best-value tier 3 provider to one of the worst. I believe its that swing - all at once - which is just too much to take for many, many customers. Throw in the lack of any communications explaining the need for such a swing, and its just human nature to suspect the worst and conclude PM is being greedy and not showing any respect to its loyal customers.

Finally, looking at an even bigger picture, it warms my heart to see more activism, boycotting, and protesting against large corporations than perhaps ever before. Its past time people took a stand and made their voice heard. I’d do a parody of a certain Twisted Sister hit but then this post would vanish so I won’t.😁

[HALIMACS]

For a moment, with the extensive use of qualifiers being thrown about, I thought perhaps this thread was delving into something a tad bit more vital to life (ie.  food, water, shelter, medication, clean air, freedom …)

Alas, we are still writing about mobile service providers.

[NoseyNick1]

> PM could have said "we'll give you a free car after 5 years of service"

[citation needed]  😉  ... but if PM or Wolfcore are giving me a free car, a real one, I might remain loyal for the rest of my 5yrs and even accept a 200% price increase  😉

Thanks for the laughs all 😄  No thanks for the "loyalty", PM  😞

[hTideGnow]

hi @NoseyNick1 yes, technical yes, they have the right to increase 1000%, that's why the 30 or 60 days notice is to let everyone a chance to get out

in terms of whether they used the right properly, I think they did. Some complaints already came back rejected and case close stating clearly that this is not something those government agencies can help

[Wolfcore]

The thing is, these people don't consider these things to be promises to begin with, not even the concept itself. Because to them, these things aren't lies. To them, they say that since the ToS was in place at the time, this disqualifies these things as being lies. "They weren't lying, the ToS nullifies whatever potential promises they made".

They don't even see it as an immoral/unethical thing to do, because to them, everybody else does it anyway, so nobody should be angry (even though what PM did was far different than the others). PM could have said "we'll give you a free car after 5 years of service", went back on their word after the 4th year, terminated this, and these people would still say that you shouldn't be angry, because of the ToS lol. 

I believe any rational person could understand how, even though their ToS may allow it, that this is still an immoral/unethical practice (where people have a reason to feel mislead), and that this company should face some consequences for their actions. But these people don't, which means they are most likely bad-faith actors playing some sort of role here.

[NoseyNick1]

> I think we have to also read the terms in the legacy rewards telling us that PM has the right to make change to the rewards program with notice

Sure, but, OK, let's take this to an illogical extreme. If PM decided to increase prices 1000%, with notice, in the form of a popup that looks like it might be a mistake, I think people would rightfully feel offended, even if it's technically allowed, it's not reasonable. So where do we draw the line? Would a 100% price increase be acceptable? 70%? 50%?

How about if they first repeatedly said "you'll be fine for years, we're keeping this the same, don't panic, this is optional, you're good, you'll continue to pay the same or less, you can keep this as long as you remain a loyal customer... oh actually haha only joking let's double your bill"?

If I wrote "5 years" on a contract, I'd be held to it. In most countries, if I say "5 years" in an advert, I'd better be ready to deliver it, or face penalties for false advertising. Marketing material still present on their own website can be considered to be somewhat legally binding too. "We can change this any time we want any way we want" is one of those contract stipulations that usually quickly falls apart in a court of law, especially when other promises (pledges, semi-binding statements, adverts, offers, whatever) have been made.  😕

[hTideGnow]

hi @NoseyNick1 I think we have to also read the terms in the legacy rewards telling us that PM has the right to make change to the rewards program with notice

[RetiredGuy1]

Agreed. Stating “promise” was never published on PMs website is a weak argument. Whether the actual word “promise” was used or the fact the statements they made could very clearly be interpreted as a commitment comes down to semantics. Whether they “broke a promise” or “failed to honour a commitment” has no material effect on the outcome resulting from the forced migration to points.

[NoseyNick1]

> I have never seen PM use the word PROMISE referring to legacy rewards

This may, or may not, be technically correct, but c'mon, it feels like we are playing word games here.

PM's words: "After staying with Public Mobile for 1 year, you will earn $1 off each 30 day period. After 2 years, your Reward will increase to $2 off each 30 day period - it'll continue to increase every year up to year 5" sounds like it will continue to increase up to year 5 (at least)? This does not sound like "unless we change our minds earlier". It sounds like they are making (at least) a 5 year commitment... brave, but in a market where data continues to get cheaper and more plentiful every year, not unrealistic. Why say "every year up to year 5" if they didn't mean every year up to year 5?!?

PM's words: "After 5 years and onwards, $5/30 days" - what part of that says "actually, we're lying about the 5 years - we may change our mind after 2.5"?

How about "[...] earn a recurring Loyalty Reward for as long as you remain an active Public Mobile customer on that account"?

How about "will continue to accumulate as long as your account remains active"?

How about "Switching [from Rewards] to Public Points is optional"?

How about "Legacy Public Rewards will not be changing"?

Time after time after time after time, PM have made ... statements ... that would look, by any reasonable definition, like "promises", even if the word "promise" may not have been used explicitly... until one day, quite suddenly, with no email (for some of us), no texts, we log in randomly and get a popup "Starting May, we are retiring our old Rewards program". This looks, initially, like it must be a mistake, perhaps an early April Fool, because it contradicts all previous messaging, even very recent messaging, even current messaging, still present, elsewhere on their website!

Let's not argue over technicalities, let's call a spade a spade. We were repeatedly told we were good as long as we remain a customer, with "5 years" being used as a frequent example which (it turns out) they have no intention of honouring.

The word "loyalty" is even right there.
Loyalty: Noun. The state or quality of being loyal; faithfulness to commitments or obligations
Loyal: Adj. faithful to one's vow, pledge, oath, commitments, promises, or obligations

What part of "loyalty"... What part of "5 years and onwards"... What part of "as long as [I] remain a PM customer"... did I misunderstand?  😮