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[Wolfcore]

Why do the Oracles deserve bravo's more than regular users? They're already being paid for their services. They're far better off than all of us after this change. Some of the Oracles have also been terrible in this thread in particular. They've spent weeks defending this unethical decision by PM (while pretending like they weren't), they've literally lied to protect them (and when called out, ran away), they've targeted users for harassment multiple times, they've silenced people who are angry about this decision, by selectively editing/moving their messages away from this thread, etc. I could go on and on. 

Anyway, there are a bunch of great Oracles out there, but they mostly stayed away from this thread. There have also been a few who have chimed in showing disgust for this decision, and didn't try and defend it. You can tell that those people are genuine. 

I just don't like seeing bad actors/people be rewarded.

Edit: Edited on behalf of "eyes"

[ShawnC13]

---

@Wolfcore wrote:

You always seem to avoid battle when you're accused of being in the wrong. Isn't that a big coinkadink?

But again, playing the victim as always. I'm not labeling people falsely, I'm literally just pointing out what they're doing. If I saw somebody murder somebody else, you'd get mad about me calling them a murderer lol

---

This community isn't about engaging in battles.

[NoseyNick1]

> “The Sound of Venting” was simply one of my parodies that, in my mind, spoke directly to this topic

Oh the Sound Of Venting was awesome! Encore!   😄

[HALIMACS]

Lol – I didn’t think we were in a battle.

Clearly you do. 

I’m sure you firmly believe in your convictions.

[eyes]

 Where did you get that I said ---->" that it's clear what they were thinking, and why they aren't responding" ? 

[Wolfcore]

You always seem to avoid battle when you're accused of being in the wrong. Isn't that a big coinkadink?

But again, playing the victim as always. I'm not labeling people falsely, I'm literally just pointing out what they're doing. If I saw somebody murder somebody else, you'd get mad about me calling them a murderer lol

[Wolfcore]

That's definitely not what it was, considering this isn't my first interaction with this person. You're thinking too deeply haha.

But yes, this is true, although on smaller scale (singular conversations/interactions), I think you can look at it a bit differently than the government surveillance Snowden was referring to. The government should not be spying on you, period, whether you have something to hide or not. What you're allowed to say, should also not be controlled by the government (at least in a perfect world, where we actually have the right to defend ourselves).

I would say that these are far different than just everyday one-on-one interactions though. If somebody accuses me of something that's untrue, I'll fight 'till the death to defend myself, not make sarcastic comments and then run away. It's just cowardly, and 99% of the time, I feel it's reasonable to come to an accurate assumption as to why they're doing it. Of course I always leave room for error, but come on, we're talking conversations of low-importance here. When someone is wrong, they have no problem speaking up about it (in reverse); I've seen it a few times already. So I don't say these things lightly, I say them based on over a month of interacting with these people.

It's very convenient that they only stop speaking when it appears that they're in the wrong, don't you think?

[eyes]

Yes I agree the community board is as you say for --- “find answers, ask questions, and share ideas”.  Hope that my observation doesn't upset you -----but -------I beleive that  one must stick to the threads subject , doing otherwise hides the purpose of the thread and reduces it to just comic relief  ----- this is supposed to be a help forum and not a political or a venting ones frustration forum. BUT fortunately for us PM has  also provided the lounge for such discussions. It is my opinion that,  to flood a thread with unrelated posts defeats the point of having a help forum.

PS --- Oh man - I just did what I preached one should not do - sorry everyone. Ohhhh wait this is now in the lounge - thanks to a very observant and fair Oracle 

[Wolfcore]

No, it's called giving my opinion, backed up by the fact that nobody has said anything in over a month, PM is purging subscribers, and they have thousands of angry people across multiple platforms. 

If you consider giving my opinion on the situation, to be me "responding on their behalf", doesn't that mean you literally just did the same thing, by saying that it's clear what they were thinking, and why they aren't responding? Whoosh lol

[NoseyNick1]

> Innocent people have nothing to hide.

I assumed the eyeroll was for this, perhaps deliberate, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothing_to_hide_argument / fallacy. Best response is probably from Ed Snowden "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say"

[eyes]

[RetiredGuy1]

I don’t get it either. Its a community board to “find answers, ask questions, and share ideas”. If some don’t feel like doing so, thats fine. If some feel like doing so on a frequent basis - that should be fine too. I think less focus on the quantity of posts and more on the quality of posts would benefit us all. To be clear, I’m not being judgemental as when I say “quality” I mean the personal back-and-forth attacks between two people. I think we can all agree thats not what “sharing ideas” is meant to be.

[eyes]

[Wolfcore]

Why are people so obsessed with the amount of people commenting in this thread? It's so odd to me. Only seems to be the Oracles + a few others. We've already been told that there were over 750 unique posters (this was like a month ago), so I assume it's over 1000 now. 1000 unique people complaining about your decision is a large number. The reason why J_PM, or PM haven't responded, is because they have nothing to say. They don't care about their customers, don't want to reverse this decision, and aren't looking to compromise. That's the reason. Has nothing to do with the amount of people posting here.

We have seen PM respond to even a single person making a complaint before, so it has nothing to do with that.

[fixin1]

@eyes - Yes, most are by only a couple. I probably did about 50.

[eyes]

Thank you for pointing this out to me. On a side note I have perused a few pages of posts on this thread and it became clear as to why @J_PM or PM in general is not responding to our objections. It seems to me that most of the posts are only by a handful of members.

[HALIMACS]

Picking & choosing one’s battles is not deflecting and running away.

Label things/people if it makes you feel better.  

[Wolfcore]

See? Another example. You can't defend it, so you deflect, and walk away. People like you always do this, because you really have no other option. Being an honest person isn't a road you're willing to take. If somebody accuses me of something that's untrue, I'd defend it 'till the death, I wouldn't deflect and run. 

I understand that you probably don't like me or my personality, but you can't say that I'm a dishonest person. If somebody asks me a question, or accuses me of something, I've always responded. Even when I've been told I was wrong (even from people who have attacked me in that thread), I've thanked them for the correction, and even bravo'd them.

I don't know why people are unwilling to separate the two sometimes. You can dislike somebody, but you don't have to be a dishonest person to try and "get them". 

[RetiredGuy1]

Oh, I agree. “The Sound of Venting” was simply one of my parodies that, in my mind, spoke directly to this topic as I was trying to capture the overwhelming feeling of disappointment, frustration, betrayal, and even anger. No matter what emotion people feel, many of the posts in here come down to an act of venting. Rather than accept the occasional post made with the intent to diffuse hostile back-and-forths, it seems those in control of the threads would prefer to continue to put fires out instead.

[HALIMACS]

It’s gotta be exhausting.

Whatever works.

LOL

[Wolfcore]

The Oracles like to push the narrative that they don't have the power to "delete" posts/threads, but the reality is, banishing them it to some random section of the forum that nobody visits, is the equivalent to banning it. They know this, and that's why they do it. They use the powers that they have available to them, to control the narrative.

When people are looking for information on this topic, they come to this thread, not the lounge lol

[Wolfcore]

and you just so happen to be one of these users. Pot calling the kettle black, as they say. When somebody lies and harasses other people, and then runs away, are they really the good guy? The bad guy is the one pointing out the bad actions of the person? They're all of a sudden a victim because somebody pointed out their wrongdoings? Makes me giggle. You can't run from the internet, that's the thing. Once something is written, it's there. These people ran because they knew they couldn't defend themselves, as the literal written evidence of what they've said, was all right there. 

You can keep portraying yourself to be the good guy all you want, but everybody who has participated in that thread, can see exactly who has done what. Your deflection doesn't actually fool anybody, just so you know lol

People just don't like being exposed. They're used to not being challenged on their nonsense, so when they are, they cry victim. Because they know they don't actually have the ability to defend their actions.

[RetiredGuy1]

‘When Oracles/mods wants to remove/hide your messages, they banish them to another section of the forum (the lounge), creating a new thread”

Then, if the “Sound of Venting” is any indication, it will remain for a couple of days before vanishing altogether

[HALIMACS]

Before you get ridiculed the user, @eyes , that would have been moved by either the Oracles or PM staff as it was likely deemed to be off topic or argumentative.

Such frequently happens with threads in either the announcement or get help sections.

Segments of them will be grouped together and pushed off to the Lounge for discussion there instead of in the original thread.

[Wolfcore]

Huh? First of all, I was responding to somebody else, but secondly, it's literally about this topic. It's about their possible reasoning for this decision.

Also, I didn't "create another thread". When Oracles/mods wants to remove/hide your messages, they banish them to another section of the forum (the lounge), creating a new thread. Please remove your false accusations about other people 😉

[Wolfcore]

You literally made a sarcastic comment about $20 not being worth it, about people who actively believe it is. If that wasn't sarcastic, then wow, you really fooled me. So yes, that would be considered mocking. That's not my opinion, that's just the facts of what you did, why shoot the messenger?

Also, if not, why edit your message to remove the comment? Obviously you know it was mockery, or you wouldn't have removed it. Rather than be an honest person and just own the "unintended" mistake, you take it out on me, and run away. You're literally doing the same thing that they've done, so I guess it makes sense. 

[eyes]

[HALIMACS]

@eyes 

It’s the MO of some users to poke and prod for sensationalism and status.

It is also very likely the reason some Oracles (and others) have jumped out of this thread.

It has become unnecessarily hostile and provoking.

You are wise to not engage - focus on members with everyday questions in the Get Help section, and help them find workarounds.

[Wolfcore]

Care to give provide some sort of reasoning for your obvious opposition to what I said? Which part was incorrect?

[eyes]

[eyes]

.