De-Googled Phone & Public Mobility

[bashley]

Wondering if anyone has had the experience of de-googling their Android phone.  Not thrilled about Google selling me in the ad market and knowing every move I make. I've decided to migrate away from using all Google services. This is quite a project because I've been using Google since its inception with umpteen tons of data, docs in the Google domain.

As I understand it, in the hands of skilled technician, an Android phone like mine (Samsung S9) can strip out Google's guts. The other options?  Linux? A flip phone with texting capability? 

A low intensity, infrequent user of mobility services, I'm not panicking, just looking ahead to a phone move that will get Google out of my life. Not to offend anyone, I think the services are great, but for me, the costs and potential risks to my privacy (and security) have come to be too high for me. 

Thanks!

bob

[brettster99]

@bashley 

I have done some of the same things to my windows laptop before it broke. And since I’m poor I couldn’t afford anything more then a chrome book Laughing out loud. 

[Korth]

@bashley 

Another thing to consider is performance. It's often hard to get real facts. Most people don't run (or at least don't publish) methodical before-vs-after benchmark comparisons. Few devs honestly admit that their code isn't as fast and clever and efficient as code from their competitors. Proponents sing endless praise, opponents hurl endless vitriol, it's hard to find accurate unbiased information which offers an impartial final decision to the end user. There are always decisions and tradeoffs in complex software design, "optimizing" more something vs less something else.

OEMs increasingly build their devices to be reliant on "black box" firmcode, drivers, and APIs. They want to advertise as much "open" and "unlocked" stuff as they can while controlling and securing as much stuff as they can. They have to comply with legal and regulatory mandates in the markets they intend to sell. And, truth be told, they all want to make more money but they are not all entirely corrupt nor entirely evil.

So OS builds which remove or replace software bloat will tend to get better performance, while OS builds which emulate functions embedded in hardware or firmware will tend to actually diminish native performance.

And, as usual, the harder they try to sell it the less you need to buy it (even when it's free). If there's too much focus on new features new features new features then I move along and keep searching for something which doesn't shovel new cargo on top of a wobbly wheel.

If you need to run a specific app then you're basically locked into whatever specific platforms and specific operating systems will support that specific app.

Support resources are also a good indicator of professionalism and quality. If the modded OS is a one-man project then it's not going to be as avidly developed as a popular project with funding and community and wikis and support channels and teams or hierarchies of "volunteer" developers.

[bashley]

---

@Korth wrote:

Cyanogen is great on some devices, not ported as well onto others.

https://itsfoss.com/open-source-alternatives-android/

There are dozens of alternatives to mobile Android/iOS/Windows. But not all of them are available for all mobile devices. If you have a particular device then you have a limited selection of firmware/OS options. If you want a particular open OS then you have a limited selection of devices which will support it. So your choices aren't as overwhelming as they might seem at first glance.

Device rooting is still a fairly good option. You can't fully de-google (or de-Apple or de-Microsoft) your gizmo but you can gain control/audit over the most invasive and pervasive features. The problem is embedded code blobs, proprietary instructions running in "black box" logic circuits, you'll never get away from that unless you can fully lobotomize your device at the component level, install an electrical DIP switch across your antennae wires, etc.

---

Thanks for weighing @Korth.  The link you sent seemed to paint a picture that it's still early days in the competitive arena for a truly market-ready alternative to the Android/iOS giants.  But, the link also led to:

https://www.cyanogenmods.org/lineageos/

Apparently google-free with no bloatware welded into it. 

...and

https://www.cyanogenmods.org/emui-11/

Warning about "beta" and "many bugs" don't exactly inspire confidence, but I'm sure these alternative systems will mature soon enough. Luckily, I'm not in panic/paranoid mode about this whole de-google notion and I'm taking precautions with the tools and behaviors I've got for the time being. 

[Korth]

Cyanogen is great on some devices, not ported as well onto others.

https://itsfoss.com/open-source-alternatives-android/

There are dozens of alternatives to mobile Android/iOS/Windows. But not all of them are available for all mobile devices. If you have a particular device then you have a limited selection of firmware/OS options. If you want a particular open OS then you have a limited selection of devices which will support it. So your choices aren't as overwhelming as they might seem at first glance.

Device rooting is still a fairly good option. You can't fully de-google (or de-Apple or de-Microsoft) your gizmo but you can gain control/audit over the most invasive and pervasive features. The problem is embedded code blobs, proprietary instructions running in "black box" logic circuits, you'll never get away from that unless you can fully lobotomize your device at the component level, install an electrical DIP switch across your antennae wires, etc.

[bashley]

Good to know these required specs you're pointing out, thanks! 

[bashley]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Certainly not saying that I'm anything resembling "all that" but a while ago I went on a non-tracking kick.

Here's what I do. I would certainly be interested in other ideas.

This is all about my main laptop computer. I've been using this tablet I'm typing on for a little while. And my phone is Android sooo....but some of the things are on the tablet and phone too.

Thunderbird email client - I don't download embedded images or allow Javascript. I actually got an email from a place that I bought something from asking if I was still interested in receiving emails from them. I replied yes. But it tells me that embedded images in emails are being tracked. I also use the SSL access method for POP or IMAP.

Firefox - I use Adblocker of course.
I use "HTTPS Everywhere" to make sure the browser picks up an encrypted version of the site.
I turn off Javascript and use Noscript which can be a bit of a bother when just browsing around or wanting to interact with the site so I turn on their own javascript temporarily or if a frequent visitor I leave it on. I fully block ad type scripts and most of Google.
I use "Smart Referrer" so that when I click a link on a page then the next site doesn't know where I came from.
I don't accept 3rd party cookies and I control which site cookies I accept - otherwise off.
I delete history on exit.

Chrome - I only use on occasion - Google donchaknow - it's mostly open and unhindered and it's the browser I use on the phone other than Firefox

Edge - is my open unhindered browser for when I need to do more on a site and can't be bothered to open things in Firefox.

And yes I use duckduckgo as well. It concerns me a little and probably less than it should that they use Yandex out of Russia though. hmm

I use non-standard non-tracking/logging (allegedly) DNS servers.

---

A lot of good tips, thanks!  Another alternative search engine which prioritizes privacy, and which I use now and then is Start Page.

https://www.startpage.com/ 

[Anonymous]

Certainly not saying that I'm anything resembling "all that" but a while ago I went on a non-tracking kick.

Here's what I do. I would certainly be interested in other ideas.

This is all about my main laptop computer. I've been using this tablet I'm typing on for a little while. And my phone is Android sooo....but some of the things are on the tablet and phone too.

Thunderbird email client - I don't download embedded images or allow Javascript. I actually got an email from a place that I bought something from asking if I was still interested in receiving emails from them. I replied yes. But it tells me that embedded images in emails are being tracked. I also use the SSL access method for POP or IMAP.

Firefox - I use Adblocker of course.
I use "HTTPS Everywhere" to make sure the browser picks up an encrypted version of the site.
I turn off Javascript and use Noscript which can be a bit of a bother when just browsing around or wanting to interact with the site so I turn on their own javascript temporarily or if a frequent visitor I leave it on. I fully block ad type scripts and most of Google.
I use "Smart Referrer" so that when I click a link on a page then the next site doesn't know where I came from.
I don't accept 3rd party cookies and I control which site cookies I accept - otherwise off.
I delete history on exit.

Chrome - I only use on occasion - Google donchaknow - it's mostly open and unhindered and it's the browser I use on the phone other than Firefox

Edge - is my open unhindered browser for when I need to do more on a site and can't be bothered to open things in Firefox.

And yes I use duckduckgo as well. It concerns me a little and probably less than it should that they use Yandex out of Russia though. hmm

I use non-standard non-tracking/logging (allegedly) DNS servers.

[gpixel]

@bashley everything is tracked nowadays even the newer flip phones will have something. the best alternative I had was using an old Nokia 8890 slider phone. you would need a provider that uses 2g. maybe chatr would be able too. you need a phone with atleast 3g/hspa for public mobile.

[bashley]

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@gpixel wrote:

@bashley you can probably remove most apps that are factory installed by using adb commands. this is how I deleted my digital wellbeing app. and Im not rooted or anything.

---

Thanks. I'll look into that. It is a partial solution because I don't think this would block access to the phone's IMEI, which gets their foot in the door. My main strategy, phone wise, is to TURN IT OFF!  hehe  I check every day, but I refuse to treat it like a breathing apparatus I have to haul around with me. 

The other option is a flip phone. Way cheap and probably fits my lightweight needs. 

bob

[gpixel]

@bashley you can probably remove most apps that are factory installed by using adb commands. this is how I deleted my digital wellbeing app. and Im not rooted or anything.

[JenL]

@bashley it is kinda creepy, when you think of how algorithm works. I think it's something that people have to adjust to. Times change and you gotta change with the times. If I'm not mistaken Google de-googled itself. Approximately, a couple years ago they deleted a lot. I wonder if going incognito could be a solution for you. 

[bashley]

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@geopublic wrote:

@bashley  If you want to de-Google your phone then your should first de-Samsung it.

If that's your intention then best to buy a phone that runs stock Android. Something like a Umidigi F2 and Google 😁 how to de-bloat it. There's a pretty detail website that shows you how to do this.

https://www.olorin.me/2020/02/11/debloating-the-umidigi-f2/

---

Thanks for the leads!  I'll check them out. 

[bashley]

---

@Naepalm wrote:

@bashley this is a difficult process for sure one that I have been trying for a long time as well. 

One of the first things I changed is what I use to search the web and access andy web pages.

Google owns so much of what we touch, there are so many Reddit articles that you can go to for this topic. 

So I have two things that you can De-google. One-Stop using Chrome and move over to Brave Browser - an add blocking browser that gives you the capability of getting paid to "allow" advertisements. Now you get paid in BAT tokens but if you have a crypto exchange account this will not be a problem for you.

Second - The search engine that you use - Use DUCK DUCK GO, this is a service that doesn't keep track of all your moves.

If you really want to de-google though you'll need to stop watching anything on youtube

or watch it through Brave. 😉

This thread should probably be in the lounge @Luddite but whatevs. LOL

---

Reassured to see I'm not alone in this de-Googling quest. Comrade! Thanks for the tips. I failed to mention in my original message that I have indeed made the browser and search engine switcheroos away from Chrome and google search. I've compartmentalized my online activities, using different browsers--Vivaldi for subscriptions/mail lists, Brave for general surfing/research, Tor for more sensitive functions, and Firefox with all the monster ad/cookie blockers for YouTube and other distractions. I've deleted all my social media accounts, and ditching Facebook, especially, has been a weight lifted off my shoulders. I may reopen a couple of social media accounts, but take strict measures to limit and discipline my use of them. Also, I'm now using a VPN for certain types of browsing.

Privacy and security are becoming ever more ominous everyday. I experienced a pretty serious breach myself (traceable to a Google leak, BTW), and it was a stark wakeup call to take back control. 

[bashley]

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@Triguy wrote:

This is a software issue not related to PM.  If you alter your OS it could void your warranty.

---

This doesn't surprise me, but I'm long past warranty repairs now. I'll probably end up getting a cheap, retro flip phone. 

[bashley]

---

@BearFBI wrote:

@bashley Almost every phone comes with googles services endless you put a custom ROM on your phone. If you cant put trust into google then how are you putting trust into anything else. Heck how are you even putting trust into using Public Mobile. Google is one of the most Secure services in the world. Almost everyone has a google account. Even if your phone has nothing to do with google they still know everything about you and probaly even your precise location as they work with cell carriers. You simply cant get away from google. But i think you can opt out on google sharing your data to a certain level. It should be somewhere in your account settings.

---

Well, I see what you're saying, but there are legions of privacy and security breaches directly or indirectly attributable either to Google flaws, surveillance, and more generally, its business model. And there are legions more of people taking pains to minimize its impact. 

Don't get me wrong. I've used many Google services for many years, day one, in fact--they're functional, reliable, easy to use. But they've gone too far, crossing my personal threshold of tolerance for their prying eyes. Maybe I can't fully eradicate their influence, but I'm confident I can drastically the data they steal from me, 

To each his/her own. 

bob

[Naepalm]

@bashley 

Not all phones from other carriers are compatible with the TELUS network. Compatible phones include:

• 4G LTE: Any TELUS phone or BlackBerry phones. Phones purchased from other providers will need to be verified for compatibility. Simply check your phone’s IMEI number with TELUS to see if they can support your device. TELUS LTE/LTE+ frequecies include 700/850/1900/2100 MHz

• 3G: Compatible phones must support these TELUS frequencies: WCDMA (HSPA): 850/1900 MHz (UMTS). Phones must support HSPA to be compatible.

compatible smart phones here:

https://www.whistleout.ca/CellPhones/Carriers/Telus

[bashley]

---

@Anonymous wrote:

 @bashley 

That's a gigantic question.

As for Public Mobile...all they need is compatible cell frequencies and unlocked.

Many keeners "root" their phones and take more control of it. Android IS Google though.

As for the rest of it, I'm not sure it's relevant to here but if it's phones I suppose technically it can be in this category.

---

Thanks. I'll need to look into compatibility of say, maybe a flip phone, with the Telus network. 

[Naepalm]

@will13am  with the amount if time I am on my phone some days I wonder if thats the way I should go. 

[bashley]

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@will13am wrote:

A de-googled phone is a flip phone.  

---

...and cheap too!  Thanks. 

[Naepalm]

@bashley love the spoilers inside the spoilers LOL

[bashley]

---

@fdrcamb519 wrote:

@bashley 

---

@bashley wrote:

Wondering if anyone has had the experience of de-googling their Android phone.  Not thrilled about Google selling me in the ad market and knowing every move I make. I've decided to migrate away from using all Google services. This is quite a project because I've been using Google since its inception with umpteen tons of data, docs in the Google domain.

As I understand it, in the hands of skilled technician, an Android phone like mine (Samsung S9) can strip out Google's guts. The other options?  Linux? A flip phone with texting capability? 

A low intensity, infrequent user of mobility services, I'm not panicking, just looking ahead to a phone move that will get Google out of my life. Not to offend anyone, I think the services are great, but for me, the costs and potential risks to my privacy (and security) have come to be too high for me. 

Thanks!

bob

---

I was reading an article said,  If you’re technically minded you can wipe your Android phone and install CyanogenMod – a fully functional version of the operating system pruned of Google’s tentacles

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Thanks, I'll look into CyanogenMod! 

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

---

[fdrcamb519]

@bashley 

---

@bashley wrote:

Wondering if anyone has had the experience of de-googling their Android phone.  Not thrilled about Google selling me in the ad market and knowing every move I make. I've decided to migrate away from using all Google services. This is quite a project because I've been using Google since its inception with umpteen tons of data, docs in the Google domain.

As I understand it, in the hands of skilled technician, an Android phone like mine (Samsung S9) can strip out Google's guts. The other options?  Linux? A flip phone with texting capability? 

A low intensity, infrequent user of mobility services, I'm not panicking, just looking ahead to a phone move that will get Google out of my life. Not to offend anyone, I think the services are great, but for me, the costs and potential risks to my privacy (and security) have come to be too high for me. 

Thanks!

bob

---

I was reading an article said,  If you’re technically minded you can wipe your Android phone and install CyanogenMod – a fully functional version of the operating system pruned of Google’s tentacles

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

[will13am]

A de-googled phone is a flip phone.  

[BearFBI]

---

@Naepalm wrote:

@BearFBI brother you are not wrong, the only way to get away is to live off the grid no cell no internet. In a Earth ship: seriously look these houses up they are incredible! ?LOL

---

@Naepalm Lol not even. The google earth satellites can still see you. Ill book a ticket to mars instead. You literally got to be off the planet to get away from google.  At this point you just got to accept it. Google is Google. Everyone has it. And it is pretty trustworthy. They may know every move you make but what company like that dosent. Your not at much risk.

[Naepalm]

@BearFBI brother you are not wrong, the only way to get away is to live off the grid no cell no internet. In a Earth ship: seriously look these houses up they are incredible! ?LOL

[geopublic]

@bashley  If you want to de-Google your phone then your should first de-Samsung it.

If that's your intention then best to buy a phone that runs stock Android. Something like a Umidigi F2 and Google 😁 how to de-bloat it. There's a pretty detail website that shows you how to do this.

https://www.olorin.me/2020/02/11/debloating-the-umidigi-f2/

[benfatto]

@bashley Get an iPhone. 🙀https://www.imore.com/how-switch-from-android-iphone-ipad

[Naepalm]

@bashley forgot to add if you're like me and bought the Huawei P30 the week before google banned any more upgrades then maybe in the future Huawei will have their own OS. 

[Naepalm]

@bashley this is a difficult process for sure one that I have been trying for a long time as well. 

One of the first things I changed is what I use to search the web and access andy web pages.

Google owns so much of what we touch, there are so many Reddit articles that you can go to for this topic. 

So I have two things that you can De-google. One-Stop using Chrome and move over to Brave Browser - an add blocking browser that gives you the capability of getting paid to "allow" advertisements. Now you get paid in BAT tokens but if you have a crypto exchange account this will not be a problem for you.

Second - The search engine that you use - Use DUCK DUCK GO, this is a service that doesn't keep track of all your moves.

If you really want to de-google though you'll need to stop watching anything on youtube

or watch it through Brave. 😉

This thread should probably be in the lounge @Luddite but whatevs. LOL

[Triguy]

This is a software issue not related to PM.  If you alter your OS it could void your warranty.