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3g(2.5) vs 4g what is the real world difference

mimmo
Retired Oracle / Oracle Retraité

hey all I know many of us are a little shocked at the new plan changes. but what is the real difference? Jeremy stated images might not be a clear or something similar.  

 

  • will youtube work 
  • how is web browsing affected
  • emailing should be fine

where will i notice the difference  are there any real world examples ? of 2.5 vs lte?  the video in Jermeys post shows a significant slowdown  but it was a cartoon so no way to know the reality.

44 REPLIES 44

srlawren
Retired Oracle / Oracle Retraité

wrote:

TL;DR Public Mobile 3G/HSPA is about 17 Mbps in my area .Whatever this 3G is that they are selling is severely throttled .

 

So, whatever this is that they are selling is severely throttled .


@Kattz Yes, it's severely throttled on purpose.  They are trying to match what Chatr and Lucky offer their customers, which is also throttled (Lucky is at 3Mbps; Chatr used to be 2.5Mbps but may have also increased to 3 like PM did when Lucky launched at 3).  

 

It's still being delivered over LTE (when available) with fallback to 3G HSPA+, but is being throttled for marketing reasons.  It's not a true 3G plan and many of us strongly voiced our distate at the branding, but our objections have fallen on deaf ears.

 

Regardless, it's still a somewhat-usable speed for basic needs, for casual users that want to pay a bit less in exchange for slower data.

 

 


wrote:

If it is 3 Mbps, that's more like Edge speeds which was 2G, I believe .I always had a CDMA carrier back then, so I can't say for sure .

 

I remember looking at FrequencyCheck.com awhile back and noticed that Public Mobile did support Edge frequencies. I wondered why, since Telus was CDMA in those days. No Telus/Bell phone will ever drop back to Edge .Now I see the purpose of having those frequencies .


I'm not sure where FrequencyCheck.com got it's info, but Telus has never operated a GSM/EDGE network.  Maybe PM did when it first launched as an independent, but I thought it was also CDMA even before being acquired by Public Mobile.  

 

FYI, Edge is still significantly slower than PM's 3Mbps throttled "3G" plans, coming in at a theoretical max of 384Kbps [source], which is 8 times slower than 3Mbps.  PM's throttled "3G" plans are 8 times faster than Edge's max capability.

 

I believe the farthest Telus got with CDMA before abandoning it was EVDO Rev A, which has a theoretical max speed of 3.1Mbps [source].  So, in theory, the "3G" data plans are about that speed.  However, whereas 3.1Mbps was the max possible speed on EVDO Rev A, it would be rare in the real world to get that kind of speed.  On the other hand, since PM is delivering over HSPA+ or LTE which are both capable of WAY faster than 3Mbps, there's plenty of headroom, and you're going to get 3Mbps more often than not for sure.


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Kattz
Good Citizen / Bon Citoyen

TL;DR Public Mobile 3G/HSPA is about 17 Mbps in my area .Whatever this 3G is that they are selling is severely throttled .

 

I still have a Bell contract for another couple of months so I have that to compare to. 

 

I'm in the Niagara area in S. Ontario . I have a European Windows Phone that doesn't have the correct bands for LTE in Canada .If I used it on my Bell account, I got about 42 Mbps speeds at home on HSPA . All of my Androids are broken, so I've been using the Windows phone while I'm waiting for my new one. The speeds are 17 Mbps down and 10 Mbps up .

 

So, whatever this is that they are selling is severely throttled . If it is 3 Mbps, that's more like Edge speeds which was 2G, I believe .I always had a CDMA carrier back then, so I can't say for sure .

 

I remember looking at FrequencyCheck.com awhile back and noticed that Public Mobile did support Edge frequencies. I wondered why, since Telus was CDMA in those days. No Telus/Bell phone will ever drop back to Edge .Now I see the purpose of having those frequencies .

doe
Great Citizen / Super Citoyen

@wetcoaster, @srlawren Thank you for clarification!



@srlawren@Jeremy_M Have you had a chance to check this and follow up?

 

Is 3G now in fact LTE throttled to 2,5 Mbps?


 

@doe

PM's "3G speeds" has always been throttled LTE - that's why I'd prefer calling it LTE light. the Speed is 3 Mbps up and down - absolutely adequate for most uses exept for data heavy gaming and extensive HD streaming.

srlawren
Retired Oracle / Oracle Retraité

@doeactually, some good news: it's now throttled at 3Mbps.  It was 2.5 at the time of the post you replied to, but was raised to 3 a few weeks ago when Bell launched their new 3d tier provider Lucky Mobile, which launched at 3Mbps. Within a few days, Public Mobile raised to 3 to match.

 

Edit: fixed a nasty typo in my first sentence. It is NOW throttled to 3. Sorry for any confusion. 


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doe
Great Citizen / Super Citoyen

@srlawren wrote:

@rob79 wrote:

 

First, is it "true" 3G, or LTE throttled at 2.5Mbps? Like, does your phone stay in LTE mode even on a 3G plan, or does it drop down to 3G? I guess the heart of the question would be "Is it 3G SPEEDS over LTE, or ACTUAL 3G"?

 


@rob79 it's not true 3G, the delivery is still over the 4G LTE/LTE+ network, with fallback to HSPA/HSPA+ when LTE not available, just like it is on the regular "4G" plans.  The "3G" plans use the same LTE with fallback, but capped down to 2.5Mbps max download and 400Kbps max upload. [EDIT: this max upload may no longer be the case based on my results below!]

 

I just did 4 tests back to back and got a MUCH better upload speed!  I got the following speeds on the 4 trials:

 

This is a HUGE improvement!!  I will follow up with @Jeremy_M to see if anything was intentionally changed or if this was a fluke of some kind.

 

@srlawren@Jeremy_M Have you had a chance to check this and follow up?

 

Is 3G now in fact LTE throttled to 2,5 Mbps?

rob79
Model Citizen / Citoyen Modèle

Thanks for the AWESOME reply @srlawren! Much appreciated.

 

Ugh, now that the Freedom promo is back I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. I would LOVE to get that plan, but 2 problems: I live in the Maritimes, so no Freedom Mobile here. Would have to order the SIM online from a 3rd party, activate it, and hope that the promo from PM was still available by the time I got around to porting back in.

 

Second problem is I'm still a month away from my 90 day renewal date, so I'd essentially be throwing ~$40 away to take advantage of it.

 

It's particularly annoying b/c I came from Koodo Prepaid back in June, then they started this great deal for people coming from Freedom shortly after. Makes me feel kinda short changed, but it is what it is.

 

Thanks again.

srlawren
Retired Oracle / Oracle Retraité

@rob79 wrote:

 

First, is it "true" 3G, or LTE throttled at 2.5Mbps? Like, does your phone stay in LTE mode even on a 3G plan, or does it drop down to 3G? I guess the heart of the question would be "Is it 3G SPEEDS over LTE, or ACTUAL 3G"?

 


@rob79 it's not true 3G, the delivery is still over the 4G LTE/LTE+ network, with fallback to HSPA/HSPA+ when LTE not available, just like it is on the regular "4G" plans.  The "3G" plans use the same LTE with fallback, but capped down to 2.5Mbps max download and 400Kbps max upload. [EDIT: this max upload may no longer be the case based on my results below!]

 


@rob79 wrote:

 

 

Second, did you notice any change in the upload speeds, or get any clarification from PM about it since you ran the tests?

 


I'm glad you asked...I just did 4 tests back to back and got a MUCH better upload speed!  I got the following speeds on the 4 trials:

 

First run:   2.62Mbps down, 1.89Mbps up, 26ms ping

Second run: 2.58Mbps down, 1.56Mbps up, 19ms ping

Third run: 2.44Mbps down, 2.56Mbps up, 33ms ping

Fourth run: 2.71Mbps down, 2.87Mbs up, 29ms ping

 

This is a HUGE improvement!!  I will follow up with @Jeremy_M to see if anything was intentionally changed or if this was a fluke of some kind.

 


@rob79 wrote:

 

I'm debating moving from my $111 3GB 90 day 4G plan to the $126 3GB+3GB 90 day 3G plan but I'm not sure about it. I don't stream video at all, and rarely stream audio (I have Spotify premium so I download it on wifi), but I do occasionally use Whatsapp (and Google Duo - which they claim is optimized for 1Mbps) for video chats and that slow upload concerns me.

 


For $126, it might now be worth considering porting temporarily to Freedom Mobile and then porting back in, to take advantage to the new FM-only promo just brought back (at the slightly higher amount of $126) this morning: https://productioncommunity.publicmobile.ca/t5/Announcements/Competitive-Response-Limited-Time-Offer....  For the same price you're considering on the 3G plan, you'll get 12GB instead of 6, and it's not capped.  


Or, see my response to leSong below for an idea of the video chat capability.

 

 

@LeSong wrote:
For those of you who got this deal, could you kindly confirm if its good enough to make a video call over FaceTime or whatsapp ?

@LeSong you may want to have a look at this test video I made:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dkgU7EBWr8&feature=youtu.be.  On the left is my OnePlus 3 with my regular 4G SIM card, and on the right is my Moto X with my "3G" test SIM.  So what you're seeing on the left is the feed from my Moto X, showing the relative capability of the "3G" upstream, and on the right you're seeing the feed from the OnePlus, showing the relative capability of the 4G upstream.  Given the above update I mentioned about upstream speeds, I can now see why this went more smoothly than I expected!  This may actually be usable now.

 


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rob79
Model Citizen / Citoyen Modèle

Hey @srlawren - if you have a sec I have a couple of questions about this thread.

 

First, is it "true" 3G, or LTE throttled at 2.5Mbps? Like, does your phone stay in LTE mode even on a 3G plan, or does it drop down to 3G? I guess the heart of the question would be "Is it 3G SPEEDS over LTE, or ACTUAL 3G"?

 

Second, did you notice any change in the upload speeds, or get any clarification from PM about it since you ran the tests?

 

I'm debating moving from my $111 3GB 90 day 4G plan to the $126 3GB+3GB 90 day 3G plan but I'm not sure about it. I don't stream video at all, and rarely stream audio (I have Spotify premium so I download it on wifi), but I do occasionally use Whatsapp (and Google Duo - which they claim is optimized for 1Mbps) for video chats and that slow upload concerns me.

 

Thanks in advance!

LeSong
Great Citizen / Super Citoyen
For those of you who got this deal, could you kindly confirm if its good enough to make a video call over FaceTime or whatsapp ?

srlawren
Retired Oracle / Oracle Retraité

@canucks4life I watched some more 1080p YouTube on the Skytrain this morning on my way into work with zero issue.  Maybe slightly more latency starting a new video or skipping ahead beyond the buffer but not awful.  App updates feel horribly slow over the "3G" data SIM.  I don't really do any live broadcasting on Instagram or Snapchat (I'm at least 10 years too old for that demographic....okay probably closer to 20+!) so it's tough to test that.  I started an Instagram live the other day while walking near my home but I guess it sends out a push notification to your followers (I know I've seen them from people I follow) and almost immediately one of my good buddies started watching so I just as quickly bailed again. Not much of a test. I'll try again another time.


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canucks4life
Town Hero / Héro de la Ville

Interesting latency/ping times are actually not bad but yeah upload really bites...PM should just make downstream/upstream symmetrical.

srlawren
Retired Oracle / Oracle Retraité

@canucks4life yes for sure.  Here's a couple of initial summaries I posted recnetly but lost in a post update from my phone:

 

3G_DataPlan_SpeedTests.png

 

I can post more later, but they are pretty consistent.


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canucks4life
Town Hero / Héro de la Ville

@srlawren Any chance on posting up some 3G plan speedtest screenshots?

srlawren
Retired Oracle / Oracle Retraité

@raza416 I have raised it up to PM and am waiting to hear back.  Might be a gltich they need to work through, as a fellow oracle @NDesai is also experiencing the same weird upload behaviour.


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raza416
Great Citizen / Super Citoyen
This is a really confusing result, in terms of your upload speeds. Typically, providers will have a "burst speed" which lasts for the first few seconds of uploading a file and is considerably faster to get smaller files sent quicker. Here it looks like the upload is initially nonexistent and then jumps up to...pretty slow. I'm guessing this is a result of PM's throttling.

I believe that at 2.5Mbps, customers are going to be fine for most data activities.   This bandwidth isn't usually being shared with multiple devices (unlike someone's home internet connection).  

 

Even videos will be fine, to an extent.  Re-buffering can be minimized by the video website by either reducing the quality of the video, or the site can make it so that more of the video is downloaded ahead of time so there there is no pause in the playback.

srlawren
Retired Oracle / Oracle Retraité
Okay, download speeds are not awful I suppose.  I watched a few 1080p YouTube videos with very little noticeable extra lag.  It never stopped to buffer, though yes if you skip ahead or back there's a longer delay in resuming play than what I am used to.  But I could live with that.
 
On the other hand, the real deal-breaker in my opinion is the upload speeds.  I don't recall if PM has said what they are supposed to be capped at, but I've yet to best 0.22Mbps upload speeds.  And, there is something REALLY weird going on if you look at the graphs on my test results:
 

 
I don't know exactly what's going on, but they all start out at ZERO Mbps for a while and then suddenly go up to the "normal" rates it seems.  Does anyone know what's going on here?!
 
The upload speed appears to be very painful.  I uploaded my speed test results to Google Photo and found that the ones I did on my "3G" test SIM took about 22 seconds for around 800KB image file, wheras it was well under 6 seconds on my "4G" regular (grandfathered) SIM.  If you're uploading one photo and not impatient, I guess that's not the end of the world.  But if you had several to sync, it would be awful. 
 
Now, in fairness, I have Google Photos set to only upload over WiFi, so this scenario wouldn't normally apply to me.  It was in the interest of science!
 
I think in normal usage for things that are download-heavy such as web sites, streaming music or videos, installing app updates, etc., it's going to be "not bad".  But for anything that involves upstream like uploading vidoe to YouTube, or even worse trying to live-stream on Snapchat or Instagram, it's going to be very poor.  I don't normally do these activities either but I will try to do so over the next couple of days just to see what it's like.

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Grampa
Great Citizen / Super Citoyen
I was with Wind for 5 years, on their LTE plan for 6 months and did many speedtests. 2.5mbps was average on Wind with no LTE. Good for browsing or streaming music and just ok for Youtube. A steady 2.5 would be sufficient for many people. With Wind/Freedom you often get no signal at all, that's why I came here.

Another way to look at it is, a steady 2.5mbps is still 1.1 GB in one hour, so you could still burn thru your data if not careful.

Just at the same time srlawren was set up with the proper 3G speed, i was also ready to go. So, i spent some time quickly to test some apps and some browsing experience. Let me tell you folks, this is not the same 3G speed as on FM or any other 3G carrier. This is basically LTE but throttled speed of 2.5mbps. 

 

Briefly, browsing experience was pretty normal. Every website i tried, loaded just fine and it was hard to notice that i am on 2.5mbps. This test was done on my phone and on PC through tethering. Most videos played just fine, but longer videos on 720p or higher would buffer for a few sec when you skip. Overall, normal 3G data usage seems to be satisfying. 

 

We will continue our testing and provide more feedbacks as we go. 

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srlawren
Retired Oracle / Oracle Retraité

PM asked the community oracles to help test out and answer some of these questions by setting us up with test lines on the new "3G" data plans.  Unfortunately, there is up to a 48 hour delay in getting the 2.5Mbps download cap in place after activation, and they weren't able to let us activate early, so we could only activate this morning. Oh, I just tested and noticed my throttling finally appears to be in place.  I'll attempt to do some testing over the next day or two, but I do have a day job that has to be my priority.  I'll do what I can!


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will13am
Oracle
Oracle

DC HSPA has a theoretical speed of 42.2 Mbits/s.  Obviously 3G will be no where near this in real world application.  I do switch to 3G in part of the building where I work.  It is actually fine for everyting even video.  The latency does seem to be higher as compared to LTE.  It is the principle of buying a 3G data plan in an era where 5G is around the corner in some parts of the world.  I don't know about others, if anyone ask me about Public Mobile, I would send them to alternatives like zoomer or whoever offers a better price which is pretty much any other carrier except the major brands.  With the major brands there is always room to negotiate. 

3G on PM seems to get from 5-8 on download and 1-3 on uplad from multiples tests I did in the last couple of months, meaning the current offer, will be with something similar to what Wind was offering or even worse, because you cannot really do anything with 2.5 Mbps other then browsing, no hope for Youtube unless you are watching in 240p (Out of experience from Wind)

raza416
Great Citizen / Super Citoyen

The new 3G plans will be throttled down to a bit less than half of what you're pulling at the moment, in terms of download at least. 

jshmeek
Model Citizen / Citoyen Modèle

Here's a few tests I just ran. I turned off 4G in my Sim settings (Android 7.1/Zuk Z2), and did a test (showed as H+/3G+, which may not be the same as the 2.5Mbps as advertised), and did a test with my normal 4G LTE. I'm located in the Vancouver area.

 

Probably not an accurate depiction of the new 3G plans though. It's really hard to say until Public clarifies.

 

Screenshot_20170713-200421.pngScreenshot_20170713-200819 (1).png


@mimmo wrote:

Im using a lg G4 and options are:

 

GSM

wcdma only

GSM/wcdma auto

GSM/wcdma/lte auto

 

WHich one is teh closest to 3G  on wcdma i was getting 3.5mbs



I don't think the Telus network supports GSM (2G)?

mimmo
Retired Oracle / Oracle Retraité

Im using a lg G4 and options are:

 

GSM

wcdma only

GSM/wcdma auto

GSM/wcdma/lte auto

 

WHich one is teh closest to 3G  on wcdma i was getting 3.5mbs

raza416
Great Citizen / Super Citoyen
Really glad I got into PM before this, sad for a few of my friends who were planning to switch though. These data speeds are definitely useable but are on the lower end of the spectrum.

Soon we will have more info on how it will effect those apps.

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Nsk143
Town Hero / Héro de la Ville
I am x freedom user.
Freedom was offering me from anywhere 1 mbps to 8 mbps sometimes. YouTube was bit buffering not alot I guess depending on locations and signal strength. Overall I would say 8 out of 10 if signals available. Bit 2.5mbps and add on pm say upto 2.5mbps its bit low but if its constant 2 or 2.5 mbps tben its not That bad.
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