SHAMING NEWBIES IN THE FORUMS

[RosieR]

I am a newbie.  I joined Public Mobile and the Community on August 18, 2020, just over a month ago.

As a newbie, I have been making a number of newbie errors in the forums such as wrong answer, repeating what had already been answered, etc etc etc

When a very knowledgeable member call the error in the forums, that is called shaming the newbie, albeit how polite the counter-response is, still a pie in the face. 

I am seeing quite a number of wrong replies (including mine) from newbies lately.  And I get annoyed myself (lol) when the reply is obviously wrong or nothing to with the price of rice. lol  And that is coming from me, another newbie.

These wrong replies in the forums might be confusing to the members who are asking for help, don't you think?

So may I suggest that instead of shaming newbies in the forums, their wrong replies be deleted and then send the clueless newbie a short pm saying "Sorry, your reply was deleted on this thread (name the thread) because (reason)."

So, what do you think?  Is this suggestion laughable or doable?

Thank you for reading,

from a very sensitive newbie.  👼

[darlicious]

@RosieR 

This was a great thread to get a varied opinion on a subject not always openly discussed. Thank you!

[treefrog]

@RosieR 

I haven't experienced this myself as i find everyone so helpful. But I've certainly read some less than nice posts though that are a little critical of mistakes made by new people to the community.

[darlicious]

@RosieR 

Great thread you've created and well suited for the community forum. You brought up what can be a sensitive topic and opened a discussion about it to bring it out into the open. This will help out many members who may feel they were called out, shamed, corrected or however they feel about constructive criticism.

I like constructive criticism and trust me a year ago I was recieving a lot of it. However.....how I recieved it and interpreted it was dependant on how it was delivered. At times it was public or private or both. Some was by true mentorship with great care by the member and their respectful delivery of it in turn earned them my up most respect for them. But others despite their intent being pure their delivery of the correction overshadowed the actual intent and caused a larger issue of misunderstanding and miscommunication.

Without visual or auditory clues, black and white typeface and page can be easily misconstrued by tone or verbage. Ultimately a member can edit their posts and both minor and major corrections are easily fixed. But sometimes those doing the correcting in their zeal for absolute correctness forget to be mindful of how they say it and allow sarcasm, cynicism or superiority (at least that's how it is recieved) creep into their message changing intent. Others still fully intend to be critical and demeaning with no regard for their fellow member as they only care that their opinion is heard or read. As stated we are all just customers here and not everyone has honed and polished customer service skills and despite their tenure need to learn to correct their behavior vs having offered the correct information. We are all a work in progress.

Saying all this I've been on both ends of the stick and have reacted both positively and negatively. As long as we all strive for both personal and community improvement we all benefit from it. Starting a discussion like this is just one of the ways its achieved. If ever you have an issue with how another member has communicated with you their are always options available to you to resolve the conflict. Use your private messages, reach out to a fellow member you trust, an oracle you admire, Catherine the community liaison, a friend, a moderator or even the big red report button can serve a purpose in settling a "correction".

[AE_Collector]

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@RosieR wrote:

@AE_Collector nice to hear.  Did your daughter say "thanks dad... but but the cabinets were just fine before!" lol just kidding 🤣

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Well, not yet but I have to take these two items to her possibly tomorrow. Just two panels that are 3.75” high to fill an equal size space above two Ikea cabinets so they look like they go right to the ceiling instead of having a dust collecting area on top. We built the cabinets and an entertainment system area between them in Feb & March and then the little filler panels were the last part needed just as Covid arrived in town. So no trips to the lumberyard for the wood but finally picked it up a couple weeks ago.

AE_Collector

[RosieR]

Thank you to everyone who took the time to read my thread and reply.  

Have a great weekend!  Cheers!

[RosieR]

@AE_Collector nice to hear.  Did your daughter say "thanks dad... but but the cabinets were just fine before!" lol just kidding 🤣

[AE_Collector]

@RosieR 

Yes I need to do that more often. I was quite productive around here getting some cleaning and organizing done in the garage and a woodwork project finished for some cabinets for my daughter.

AE_Collector

[RosieR]

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@AE_Collector wrote:

@RosieR 

If someone is overly critical of an incorrect response by someone, hopefully others will point out that the response To the incorrect post was too critical as well.

Its quite easy for some of us to get annoyed at things that happen around here. I just took a 1 day “vacation” from the community yesterday after getting annoyed at a single post (of mine) chopped from a topic and tossed Into “the Lounge” in my mind needlessly.

AE_Collector

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@AE_Collector no, they are not over critical.  They are actually super polite (almost robotic LOL).  Did you at least enjoy your day vacation?  I hope you did.  Cheers!

[AE_Collector]

@computergeek541 

There was no ban, just a needed 24 hour time out.... “vacation”.

Not complaining now, just pointing out that it isn’t always smooth sailing around here and some of us are more easily annoyed than others at things that happen.

AE_Collector

[Anonymous]

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@computergeek541 wrote:

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@AE_Collector wrote:

Its quite easy for some of us to get annoyed at things that happen around here. I just took a 1 day “vacation” from the community yesterday after getting annoyed at a single post (of mine) chopped from a topic and tossed Into “the Lounge” in my mind needlessly.

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In that case, whether right or wrong, I made the decision that the message was far off topic enough to change the entire direction of the  topic being discussed.  Others are free to agree or disagree with me.  For the record, I had nothing to do with any such temporary ban.

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errm...I don't think he said he was banned. I took it that he simply decided to take a day off. Once again, language interpretation in text.

[computergeek541]

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@AE_Collector wrote:

Its quite easy for some of us to get annoyed at things that happen around here. I just took a 1 day “vacation” from the community yesterday after getting annoyed at a single post (of mine) chopped from a topic and tossed Into “the Lounge” in my mind needlessly.

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In that case, whether right or wrong, I made the decision that the message was far off topic enough to change the entire direction of the discussion.  Others are free to agree or disagree with me.  For the record, I had nothing to do with any such temporary ban.

[RosieR]

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@yanzhiqiang wrote:

Suggestions are not always right. This is a group of customers, not experts. Mistakes do happen.

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@yanzhiqiang some members might disagree lol  Thank you for your input.

[AE_Collector]

@RosieR 

If someone is overly critical of an incorrect response by someone, hopefully others will point out that the response To the incorrect post was too critical as well.

Its quite easy for some of us to get annoyed at things that happen around here. I just took a 1 day “vacation” from the community yesterday after getting annoyed at a single post (of mine) chopped from a topic and tossed Into “the Lounge” in my mind needlessly.

AE_Collector

[RosieR]

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@popping wrote:

Everyone made mistakes as long as we learn by doing it.  I was happy to receive post to point out what was wrong.  I replied with a "Thanks" and edit my post cross out the wrong info and update my post with the corrected info.

I have no problem sending a private message or post it on the same thread.  Let me know if any member want me to send private message.  Otherwise, I will point out the wrong info on the same thread.

Happy contributing...

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@popping thank you.  I like the way you do it and I will go back and just update my posts and stop throwing tantrums.  and whoever said that "you can't teach an old dog new tricks," is wrong. lol

[RosieR]

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@Anonymous wrote:

@RosieR 

The Oracles and the regulars prefer to see correct information posted. An incorrect post could lead a customer astray or do more harm.

I don't recall newbies being shamed by anyone. Just to say to the newbie and to speak towards the OP that well actually it's this way.

Newbies post out a lot of stuff as kevenv said but it's not like it's wrong so generally nothing would be said other than maybe a nudge like um this is an old solved thread...no need to add to it. For example. If they ask another question in that thread well fine.

But I really don't think any shaming per se is going on. That has become a strong keyword in these newer ultra-sensitive times that I think can be abused more than necessary

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@Anonymous you are not alone in thinking that there is no newbie shaming going on.  Others call it learning process.  I'm sure some newbies don't even care.  Your opinion on the use of the word "shaming" is duly noted.  Actually, I just want to make a statement and irritate some people. lol

[ShawnC13]

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@yanzhiqiang wrote:

Suggestions are not always right. This is a group of customers, not experts. Mistakes do happen.

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When people are getting rewarded for providing support for PM we need to be as sure as we can with what information we are providing.  If we aren't why would they continue to reward it

[yanzhiqiang]

Suggestions are not always right. This is a group of customers, not experts. Mistakes do happen.

[ShawnC13]

The community is only as good as the information posted in it.  That is why it is stressed that people only post if they know they are giving good advice.  If you aren't sure use the search function.  As William said there really aren't any new questions being asked, so you will be able to find a thread that has the right info.  I don' think pointing out errors in posts is shaming and as stated will help others no that it is incorrect.  We are all here to help people whether it is the person asking the question or a member who provided incorrect information other members will post to correct the error and provided solid advice for the OP

[RosieR]

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@kb_mv wrote:

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@RosieR wrote:

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Once or twice can be seen as a learning process, I agree.. and I did appreciate it.  But there comes a time (more than a month! LOL) that I just had to call it as I see it.

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@RosieR I have to ask, after a month are the errors being pointed out new?

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@kb_mv no sorry misunderstood, yes they are new.  If one keeps making the same mistake over and over again, that wasn't me.  I am a little slow but not that slow lol

[RosieR]

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@kb_mv wrote:

I don't think I have seen anybody shamed or intentionally belittled for their efforts at least not since I have been hanging around. Pointing out what is clearly bad information or misguided is a chance for all the newbies to learn. I've been shown the error of my posts as a so called  veteran. I certainly never got offended. I try and immediately go back and correct the post. I have even asked questions after being here over a year.

I see some newbies posting in excess of 40/50 posts a day, posting replies to way old threads, solved threads or they offer wrong information to threads that have multiple versions of the correct solution / information. This tells me they aren't even reading the thread / replies before them and taking the opportunity to learn.

For those that are making a concerted effort to learn PM and offer some help, I applaud you. Keep it up and take whatever correction / criticism people offer as an opportunity to up your game.

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@kb_mv I don't think someone was intentionally shaming or belittling newbies.  After all, everyone here had been a newbie at one point in time and, perhaps, they also made mistakes that others had pointed out... perhaps.  lol  As far as I am concerned, I am just making a statement.  Some call is a potato others call it po-tah- toh. lol  

[popping]

Everyone made mistakes as long as we learn by doing it.  I was happy to receive post to point out what was wrong.  I replied with a "Thanks" and edit my post cross out the wrong info and update my post with the corrected info.

I have no problem sending a private message or post it on the same thread.  Let me know if any member want me to send private message.  Otherwise, I will point out the wrong info on the same thread.

Happy contributing...

[will13am]

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@kb_mv wrote:

I don't think I have seen anybody shamed or intentionally belittled for their efforts at least not since I have been hanging around. Pointing out what is clearly bad information or misguided is a chance for all the newbies to learn. I've been shown the error of my posts as a so called  veteran. I certainly never got offended. I try and immediately go back and correct the post. I have even asked questions after being here over a year.

I see some newbies posting in excess of 40/50 posts a day, posting replies to way old threads, solved threads or they offer wrong information to threads that have multiple versions of the correct solution / information. This tells me they aren't even reading the thread / replies before them and taking the opportunity to learn.

For those that are making a concerted effort to learn PM and offer some help, I applaud you. Keep it up and take whatever correction / criticism people offer as an opportunity to up your game.

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Back in the day, we used to feel bad about posting way late particularly if it is repetitive.  That was then, this is now.  We are operating to new norms.  

[Anonymous]

@RosieR 

The Oracles and the regulars prefer to see correct information posted. An incorrect post could lead a customer astray or do more harm.

I don't recall newbies being shamed by anyone. Just to say to the newbie and to speak towards the OP that well actually it's this way.

Newbies post out a lot of stuff as kevenv said but it's not like it's wrong so generally nothing would be said other than maybe a nudge like um this is an old solved thread...no need to add to it. For example. If they ask another question in that thread well fine.

But I really don't think any shaming per se is going on. That has become a strong keyword in these newer ultra-sensitive times that I think can be abused more than necessary

[RosieR]

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@will13am wrote:

I am not a fan of moving stuff.  All it does is create mess.  Take a look at the community.  It is littered with moved posts.  

The way new threads are created over and over again for the same questions, it renders a lot of the older responses essentially unimportant.  Cleaning up what will likely not be seen again does not really accomplish that much.  At the end of the day, as long as the customer gets the right feedback, everything else is secondary.  If members put in an honest effort, there is no need to shame or feel ashamed.  

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@will13am yes I agree, as long as the customers' issues and problems are resolved at the end of the day, all's good.  Thank you for your input.

[kb_mv]

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@RosieR wrote:

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Once or twice can be seen as a learning process, I agree.. and I did appreciate it.  But there comes a time (more than a month! LOL) that I just had to call it as I see it.

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@RosieR I have to ask, after a month are the errors being pointed out new?

[RosieR]

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@benfatto wrote:

@RosieR Overall forum seems pretty good with all its current warts and foibles.

For me, the public correction of a post is not shaming; it's more a group learning opportunity.

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@benfatto I love the Public Mobile community.  It is very active and ready to help other members.  I am just making a suggestion and wanting to hear fellow members' thoughts about the topic.  Once or twice can be seen as a learning process, I agree.. and I did appreciate it.  But there comes a time (more than a month! LOL) that I just had to call it as I see it.

[kb_mv]

I don't think I have seen anybody shamed or intentionally belittled for their efforts at least not since I have been hanging around. Pointing out what is clearly bad information or misguided is a chance for all the newbies to learn. I've been shown the error of my posts as a so called  veteran. I certainly never got offended. I try and immediately go back and correct the post. I have even asked questions after being here over a year.

I see some newbies posting in excess of 40/50 posts a day, posting replies to way old threads, solved threads or they offer wrong information to threads that have multiple versions of the correct solution / information. This tells me they aren't even reading the thread / replies before them and taking the opportunity to learn.

For those that are making a concerted effort to learn PM and offer some help, I applaud you. Keep it up and take whatever correction / criticism people offer as an opportunity to up your game.

[RosieR]

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@computergeek541 wrote:

@RosieR Oracles can edit or move messages but are not obligated to. Some categories can ony be seen by Oracles (and Retired Oracles) and staff.

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@computergeek541 I am sure Public Mobile absolutely grateful for everything that oracles and retired oracles are doing.   

[will13am]

I am not a fan of moving stuff.  All it does is create mess.  Take a look at the community.  It is littered with moved posts.  

The way new threads are created over and over again for the same questions, it renders a lot of the older responses essentially unimportant.  Cleaning up what will likely not be seen again does not really accomplish that much.  At the end of the day, as long as the customer gets the right feedback, everything else is secondary.  If members put in an honest effort, there is no need to shame or feel ashamed.  

[benfatto]

@RosieR Overall forum seems pretty good with all its current warts and foibles.

For me, the public correction of a post is not shaming; it's more a group learning opportunity.