Autopay doesn't show up as recurring bill on credit card

[devy]

I pay with a Tangerine MasterCard. There are reward categories, one of which is "Recurring Bill Payment". I have noticed that my bill does not register in that category. I called and spoke to a Tangerine rep, and it turns out it is up to the merchant to offer recurring payments. She referenced a legal page.

From there: "Recurring Bill Payment: Recurring bill payments are defined as payments made on a monthly or other regular basis, and which are automatically billed by the merchant to your Tangerine Credit Card, such as your monthly phone bill. Not all merchants offer recurring payments, and not all ongoing payments will be considered “recurring payments” for purposes of this category. Please check with your merchant to see if your recurring payment qualifies."

So my question is for Public Mobile - can you please update your status with Mastercard so that we can receive the appropriate rewards from our credit card company? I know I'm not the only one that is frustrated by this as I searched the topic and many people have raised this over the years.

[Ruslan1394]

Looks like KOHO 2.5% no longer works since June 2021. 

[spcad]

For those saying that it cannot be considered a recuring payment because it occurs every 30 days and or that it is prepaid here is the definition a recurring payment transaction according to Mastercard.

"A recurring payment Transaction is a Transaction made pursuant to an agreement
between a Cardholder and a Merchant, whereby the Cardholder authorizes the
Merchant to store and use the Cardholder’s Mastercard Account or (where
supported) Maestro Account data periodically and on an ongoing basis, with no
specified end date. Use may occur periodically, such as on a monthly, quarterly, or
annual basis, or as needed to “top up” the Cardholder’s account with the
Merchant. A recurring payment Transaction may be for a variable or a fixed
amount, as specified in the agreement. A recurring payment Transaction differs
from an installment Transaction in that the number of installment Transaction
payments is specified."

By way of example and not limitation, the following are Merchant categories that
frequently process recurring payment Transactions:

• MCC 4814 (Telecommunication Services including but not limited to prepaid
phone services and recurring phone services)
• MCC 4816 (Computer Network/Information Services)
• MCC 4899 (Cable, Satellite, and Other Pay Television and Radio Services)
• MCC 4900 (Utilities—Electric, Gas, Heating Oil, Sanitary, Water)
• MCC 5192 (Books, Periodicals, and Newspapers)
• MCC 5968 (Direct Marketing—Continuity/Subscription Merchants)
• MCC 6300 (Insurance Sales, Underwriting, and Premiums)

Src­. https://www.mastercard.us/content/dam/mccom/global/documents/transaction-processing-rules.pdf

Below this paragraph it is mentioned that it is not the merchant category code (MCC) that determines if a transaction is recurrent but rather the presence of the recurring payment indicator. It looks like PM is having a hard time undestand that they have to use that indicator when establishing the initial payment.

[movi]

Okay sure. As I have mentioned and you can see in my replies I am mainly trying to clarify some details. Yes I believe accuracy is important for future reference.

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@softech wrote:
darlicious thanks for showing us the proofs that  recurring payments have higher merchant fees!!

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This comment is inaccurate. Neither of the links shared mention that recurring payments have higher merchant fees on credit cards.

Another reason I contacted my credit card is to check if it was correctly set up as a recurring payment since the cash back did not reflect that. I also had the same thoughts about payment dates and which party is initiating the payments expressed by someone in this thread which they just reiterated using other words. I have discussed all these details with the credit card rep and more but trying to keep things concise when I post here and just focus on key information and not opinions. 

Thank you for continuous interest in this topic which has continued for a number of years. I hope this concludes this matter of what people think of me here and there is no need for further replies 🙂 Again, I will update with more info when I follow up. All the best.

[softech]

not sure if my comment is necessary 😆

We are all interested in saving more, just that we think it's a tough to win battle.  But what do I know, maybe you will come back with a victory.. or maybe this is another thread we will refer back when another person try to fight with  this multi-billion enterprise on this same topic couple years later..

Good Luck.. and looking forward for your good news!!!

[movi]

I am aware of the finances and the other posts which came up in my search yesterday. I replied to this thread to clarify some information and share my experience as I noticed some inaccuracies in the posts and someone at my credit card said they would look into issue when I spoke to them after my previous bill.

Thank you everyone for all the numerous replies but please stop posting unnecessary comments and just ignore this thread if you are not interested or if it bothers you in some way. We just do not share the same objectives. All the best.

[darlicious]

@movi 

I could easily save you 10 to 20 times each month what you are trying to accomplish with your 2% cashback but you are right...I'm not interested.

[movi]

@Anonymous

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 @movi : I also look at it as being the direction of payment. A recurring payment is pushed to the merchant. Or even pushed manually by online banking. This place is pulled from the payment card. You're letting the merchant take money from the card rather than giving money to the merchant.

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I am thinking it may be that the system for my credit card is not set up to have recurring payments deducted every 30 days instead of the same day each month.

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@darlicious wrote:

@movi 

This request has been going on for 3 years now and still hasn't changed. Is it really worth all the effort for at the most a dime ($0.10) every month?

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I find it interesting to know about the recurring payments process for my credit card specifically. You do not have to keep on replying if you are not interested. As mentioned previously, it also seems that Visa has lower merchant fees for recurring payments.

I have a contact at CIBC Visa. I will update after I follow up after my next bill.

[darlicious]

@movi 

This request has been going on for 3 years now and still hasn't changed. Is it really worth all the effort for at the most a dime ($0.10) every month?

https://productioncommunity.publicmobile.ca/t5/Paying-for-your-service/Public-Mobile-as-a-reoccurrin...

[darlicious]

@movi 

Good luck with that.

[Anonymous]

 @movi : I also look at it as being the direction of payment. A recurring payment is pushed to the merchant. Or even pushed manually by online banking. This place is pulled from the payment card. You're letting the merchant take money from the card rather than giving money to the merchant.

[movi]

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/recurring-billing.asp "Recurring billing happens when a merchant automatically charges a customer for goods or services on a prearranged schedule."

Autopay deducts the payments from my credit card once a month even if the day slightly changes each month (due to the every 30 days term) so it is still a recurring monthly payment.

I am following up with CIBC Visa specifically and I think it may have to do with them not anticipating a recurring payment where the day of the month changes when they implemented their system.

[darlicious]

@movi 

Public mobile would have to change their merchant code for the bank to consider it a reoccurring payment. This question has been asked and answered and requested of pm many times before and nothing has changed and I doubt it will be changed anytime soon.

Perhaps public mobile has negotiated a set fee for its card on file payments that does not include reoccurring payments designation which is why they don't change it. But they have negotiated a special retail partner cashback of 2% with koho to give customers an option with another non bricks and mortar business/bank.

You may have better luck at succeeding in changing  pm's mind by adding it to the wishlist first....

https://productioncommunity.publicmobile.ca/t5/Community/The-Community-s-Public-Mobile-Wishlist/m-p/...

[Anonymous]

 @movi : It had been my understanding that due to the fact that the terms float up in the month that that is not a recurring payment. Monthly bills, sure. It's always due on a particular day. Not here.

[softech]

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@movi wrote:

 My link shows that Visa actually charges less for payments that are recurring just as they also charge lower fees for merchants with higher total transactions

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@movi , PM will also give a big thanks to you  if you can help lowering their cost!!!  Waiting to hear back from you 🙂

[movi]

@softechThe links from @darlicious do not show that Visa charges more for recurring payments. My link shows that Visa actually charges less for payments that are recurring just as they also charge lower fees for merchants with higher total transactions. I am following up with CIBC Visa to find out what exactly happened. In may not be up to Public Mobile.

[softech]

@darlicious  thanks for showing us the proofs that  recurring payments have higher merchant fees!!

I guess the articles show us clearly Credit cards and the merchants have proper way to setup recurring charge.   

I am pretty sure  PM did not setup our Autopay as a recurring payment for whatever reason (very possible it is due to the transaction costs).   Credit cards system obviously checked how the payment was setup and will decide to give us the cash back or not    

It is the way it is.  Of course we can try to make PM system "better" by opening ticket with Mod and have them to escalate.   Many of the members here will certainly give a big thanks to whoever start this case and able to  press PM to make this change  🙂

[darlicious]

@movi 

You are correct....this article is more to my point as to what the interchange fees maybe...

https://www.merchantmaverick.com/the-complete-guide-to-credit-card-processing-rates-and-fees/

[movi]

@darlicious

> https://fitsmallbusiness.com/how-to-accept-recurring-payments/#:~:text=Recurring%20payment%20and%20c...

Those are the fees for Square payment platform. We are discussing the merchant fees on our credit cards.

[darlicious]

@movi 

It all depends where you look for your info...

• Startup and monthly fees: $0
• Recurring payment and card-on-file processing fee: 3.5% plus 15 cents per transaction
• Non-recurring invoice and ecommerce transaction fee: 2.9% + 30 cents per transaction

https://fitsmallbusiness.com/how-to-accept-recurring-payments/#:~:text=Recurring%20payment%20and%20c...

[movi]

@darlicious Where did you hear that recurring payments have higher merchant fees? According to this link the Visa merchant fees are 1.4 for Recurring Payments vs. 1.54 for Electronic and Mastercard does not have different fees for Recurring Payments https://www.greedyrates.ca/blog/how-much-are-canadian-merchants-really-charged-by-visa-mc/

> If you really want to save that small percentage of cashback 

It is not the amount of the cashback, there is a recurring payment that satisfies the terms for the cash back for recurring payments for my credit card. There should be a way for the credit card to see that a recurring payment every 30 days is a recurring monthly payment.

@softech > With public mobile - you're, in effect, purchasing a new plan every renewal.

I keep the same plans but it does not matter if you change the plan with Teksavvy, Public Mobile, etc. before the next payment or how you perceive the payments in your mind. It is a recurring payment if you are automatically charged for a service on a pre-arranged schedule and for my credit card recurring monthly payments fit into the cash back category for recurring payments.

With Public Mobile's Autopay I have set up recurring pre-authorized payments to be charged every 30 days so there is a recurring monthly payment although the day of the month the payment is deducted can slightly change from month to month.

[darlicious]

@movi 

When a merchant chooses their business type ( in this case as reoccurring payment or not) determines the percentage of merchant fees they pay credit card issuers ( visa, m/c, amex etc...). A reoccuring bill code charges a higher fee to the merchant and these fees are usually passed in to the customer in the form of higher prices. Public mobile chooses not to code its payments this way to keep their prices as low as possible.

While there seems to be many requests for this to change by pm customers when taking the whole customer base into consideration at a third tier provider where many do not even pay with a credit card it is a matter of not making the entire subscribership pay more to satisfy the request of a few.

If you really want to save that small percentage of cashback by paying with a card consider opening a high interest savings account with koho and getting their visa/debit card to pay for your pm plan. Koho and pm have a merchant partnership than allows you to recieve an additional 2% cashback on top of the minimum 0.5% cashback offered by koho.

[softech]

@movi  glad CIBC willing to help.  Many of the people here will thanks you if you manage to get CIBC to treat PM payment as reoccurring bill for all of us here.

But honest, I still agree what @HALIMACS  said: 

With public mobile - you're,  in effect, purchasing a new plan every renewal.

[movi]

@softech, @devy Comparably, I have automatic payments from my CIBC Dividend Platinum Visa card for my Teksavvy internet service and it is recognized as recurring payment for the cash back even though the internet service itself is prepaid (I paid ahead for the first month upon ordering the installation, each billing is for the following month, and a refund of unused prepaid fees is issued if you cancel the service) and the payment is deducted on the same day each month. My CIBC Visa does not see my Public Mobile autopay as recurring payment in their cash back and I thought this might be due to the payment being every 30 days instead of the same day each month. But if it is recurring every 30 days it is still recurring monthly and so I feel this should still be eligible for the cash back amount for recurring payments. A CIBC rep manually issued me the recurring payment cash back amount for my Public Mobile payment but I am following up to see if there is a way they can recognize recurring payments done every 30 days.

[HALIMACS]

@devy 

A valid question, however prepaid services are not treated as recurring bill payments, even if an auto payment agreement is set up to occur.

With public mobile - you're,  in effect, purchasing a new plan every renewal.

It is interesting you're credit card provider uses the example of a phone bill - - suspect the intention in doing so is to suggest it's a typical postpaid service.

[softech · Accepted solution]

not sure if it will happen for 2 reasons, 

technically, it's not recurring in credit card centre terms because it is NOT a monthly service.  Remember PM only offers 30 days Pre-Paid service.

Also, because of the 30 days services, you are not really authorizing them to take out money MONTHLY like other services that you have setup.  I believe PM just keep your CC info and do a "manual" process every 30 days... 

[Triguy]

I don't think PM will offer it since they are a third tier provider..  You could try contacting a moderator.

Here’s when and how to contact the Moderator Team:

• Get help with your account the easy way by starting a conversation with our virtual assistant, SIMon. It’ll take you to relevant help articles, or if it’s something more urgent, it can help you submit a ticket to the Moderator Team. Click here to get started.
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