Upcoming Changes to our Old Rewards Program

[J_PM]

Hey Community,

We have an important announcement to share with our subscribers who are currently enrolled in our old Rewards program.

We’re making changes to our rewards program and are sharing how these changes impact some of our subscribers. Starting in May, we’ll be retiring our old Rewards program and moving all subscribers to our Public Points™ program. 

We launched the Public Points™ program in January 2022 to provide our subscribers with more ways to earn and spend rewards, with greater flexibility. As part of our commitment to continuously evolve our products and services, it's time to retire our old Rewards program and shift our focus on enhancing our Points program.

To show our appreciation for your continued loyalty, subscribers on our old Rewards program will receive a special thank you. We'll send you a text message when it has been added to your account by March 31st. 

We’re excited to continue providing you, our valued subscribers, more opportunities to earn and spend rewards with Public Points™ moving forward.

To learn more about your move to Public Points, check out our FAQ here.

The Public Mobile Team

[Wolfcore]

The thing is, these people don't consider these things to be promises to begin with, not even the concept itself. Because to them, these things aren't lies. To them, they say that since the ToS was in place at the time, this disqualifies these things as being lies. "They weren't lying, the ToS nullifies whatever potential promises they made".

They don't even see it as an immoral/unethical thing to do, because to them, everybody else does it anyway, so nobody should be angry (even though what PM did was far different than the others). PM could have said "we'll give you a free car after 5 years of service", went back on their word after the 4th year, terminated this, and these people would still say that you shouldn't be angry, because of the ToS lol. 

I believe any rational person could understand how, even though their ToS may allow it, that this is still an immoral/unethical practice (where people have a reason to feel mislead), and that this company should face some consequences for their actions. But these people don't, which means they are most likely bad-faith actors playing some sort of role here.

[NoseyNick1]

> I think we have to also read the terms in the legacy rewards telling us that PM has the right to make change to the rewards program with notice

Sure, but, OK, let's take this to an illogical extreme. If PM decided to increase prices 1000%, with notice, in the form of a popup that looks like it might be a mistake, I think people would rightfully feel offended, even if it's technically allowed, it's not reasonable. So where do we draw the line? Would a 100% price increase be acceptable? 70%? 50%?

How about if they first repeatedly said "you'll be fine for years, we're keeping this the same, don't panic, this is optional, you're good, you'll continue to pay the same or less, you can keep this as long as you remain a loyal customer... oh actually haha only joking let's double your bill"?

If I wrote "5 years" on a contract, I'd be held to it. In most countries, if I say "5 years" in an advert, I'd better be ready to deliver it, or face penalties for false advertising. Marketing material still present on their own website can be considered to be somewhat legally binding too. "We can change this any time we want any way we want" is one of those contract stipulations that usually quickly falls apart in a court of law, especially when other promises (pledges, semi-binding statements, adverts, offers, whatever) have been made.  😕

[hTideGnow]

hi @NoseyNick1 I think we have to also read the terms in the legacy rewards telling us that PM has the right to make change to the rewards program with notice

[RetiredGuy1]

Agreed. Stating “promise” was never published on PMs website is a weak argument. Whether the actual word “promise” was used or the fact the statements they made could very clearly be interpreted as a commitment comes down to semantics. Whether they “broke a promise” or “failed to honour a commitment” has no material effect on the outcome resulting from the forced migration to points.

[NoseyNick1]

> I have never seen PM use the word PROMISE referring to legacy rewards

This may, or may not, be technically correct, but c'mon, it feels like we are playing word games here.

PM's words: "After staying with Public Mobile for 1 year, you will earn $1 off each 30 day period. After 2 years, your Reward will increase to $2 off each 30 day period - it'll continue to increase every year up to year 5" sounds like it will continue to increase up to year 5 (at least)? This does not sound like "unless we change our minds earlier". It sounds like they are making (at least) a 5 year commitment... brave, but in a market where data continues to get cheaper and more plentiful every year, not unrealistic. Why say "every year up to year 5" if they didn't mean every year up to year 5?!?

PM's words: "After 5 years and onwards, $5/30 days" - what part of that says "actually, we're lying about the 5 years - we may change our mind after 2.5"?

How about "[...] earn a recurring Loyalty Reward for as long as you remain an active Public Mobile customer on that account"?

How about "will continue to accumulate as long as your account remains active"?

How about "Switching [from Rewards] to Public Points is optional"?

How about "Legacy Public Rewards will not be changing"?

Time after time after time after time, PM have made ... statements ... that would look, by any reasonable definition, like "promises", even if the word "promise" may not have been used explicitly... until one day, quite suddenly, with no email (for some of us), no texts, we log in randomly and get a popup "Starting May, we are retiring our old Rewards program". This looks, initially, like it must be a mistake, perhaps an early April Fool, because it contradicts all previous messaging, even very recent messaging, even current messaging, still present, elsewhere on their website!

Let's not argue over technicalities, let's call a spade a spade. We were repeatedly told we were good as long as we remain a customer, with "5 years" being used as a frequent example which (it turns out) they have no intention of honouring.

The word "loyalty" is even right there.
Loyalty: Noun. The state or quality of being loyal; faithfulness to commitments or obligations
Loyal: Adj. faithful to one's vow, pledge, oath, commitments, promises, or obligations

What part of "loyalty"... What part of "5 years and onwards"... What part of "as long as [I] remain a PM customer"... did I misunderstand?  😮

[hTideGnow]

I think PM has been very open about posting other carriers price here on this thread.  

But here is no RFD, I agree PM should tighten it up again. Afterall, we should respect this is a PM field here 

[Wolfcore]

If this thread was as controlled as you feel it is why has it been allowed to talk about other providers and what they are offering?!?!?!

They weren't allowed in the beginning (you know that, you even said it), but it eventually became overwhelming, because everybody started talking about them. Removing them all would just cause more outrage and chaos. Promotion of other companies is also not that big of a deal. The information of these available plans are out there already, it's on the internet. If somebody is actually in the market for a new plan, they'd find them regardless. Them being posted to PM doesn't really change anything there.

Whereas posting internal/private messages/negotiations with PM, where it shows PM giving out benefits/compensation to only certain members, and not others, is very bad for PM. They have thousands of angry customers already, and having people find out that not only have they removed their rewards program, but they've also been rejected any form of compensation (while others have been given some), would only anger them more. Would destroy their reputation further, and they'd end up having to appease more people, which would cost them more money. So yes, these two don't even come close to each other, and there's a reason for one to be targeted over the other. It's definitely more of a reasonable explanation than "everybody else is just lying".

Edited to add:  Were your posts auto-deleted or moved to your moderated posts section.  Yes there are times this comes up out of the blue as others have mentioned there are threads about that in the community just happening randomly.

They were rejected; tossed onto my rejection page. Within seconds. I even tried just posting a new message, saying "hi", and editing it later, replacing it with my original rejected message, and it was deleted as well. 

[hTideGnow]

hi @ShawnC13 I guess people know they can lie about these freebies in PM own site as they have ways to validate 

[Wolfcore]

No, it's saying that your actions are that of a shill. Whether you're a shill or not in the traditional sense, is a different story. I don't think you're being paid to pose as a customer (a salary/contract). I think you are a real customer, who just so happens to be paid for your services unrelated to shilling (Oracle). But, because of that payment (and maybe some pride in your status or whatever), you've chosen to try and protect the company by all means necessary, which is why you're performing the exact same actions that a true shill would. Have you been told to do this by PM? I can't say for sure, and that's why I'm not calling you a shill. I'm simply saying that you're doing everything a real shill would. You've already told me that you've loyal to PM, because of the money you save.

It's funny, because I did notice that "promise" comment, but chose not to speak up on it. This is exactly what a shill would do. They use wordplay to try and manipulate. You know very well that you don't have to use the literal word "promise", in order to make a promise. "'till death do us part", is a promise. A contract is a promise (it doesn't need to include that specific word), etc. I honestly thought you were better than that. But to play silly word games like that for the sake of defending this company, really changes things.

Even the fact that you're ignoring the evidence I just presented where I show you being a liar, and instead, try and correct my grammar/spelling mistake lol, tells us a lot. I just called you out, and there hasn't been a response. I'd love to hear your explanation for why you gave that false statement. You either jumped to their defense without doing any research, or you knew it, but lied anyway. Both are nearly identical to me, and just as bad as each other. I can't think of a reasonable explanation for you doing that, to be honest.

[ShawnC13]

1000's of messages?!?!?!  If this thread was as controlled as you feel it is why has it been allowed to talk about other providers and what they are offering?!?!?!  I would think those would be removed and anyone getting something would be left up showing PM is trying to keep customers happy

Edited to add:  Were your posts auto-deleted or moved to your moderated posts section.  Yes there are times this comes up out of the blue as others have mentioned there are threads about that in the community just happening randomly.

[ShawnC13]

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@Wolfcore wrote:

I haven't outright called you a shill (I don't think), but your actions are preciously those of someone who would be. Almost no difference whatsoever.

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So this comment isn't calling me that?  I actually think you meant precisely not preciously.  As mentioned  many times in this thread that wording and intrepretation is a big thing. As an example, I say I have never seen PM use the word PROMISE referring to legacy rewards for ever, and you say what I have quoted above.  All about intrepretation.

Call or think about me what you will, I know that for my family and our needs this is the best place.  There are some close options and will see what happens if/when how many referrals leave what that looks like here.

[Wolfcore]

You're surprised that you're not seeing people say this stuff, on a platform controlled by the very people they're informing about? 🤣

That's like wondering why we don't hear about government corruption on the news, when the news is being subsidized by the government 😂

For one, there have been what? Thousands of messages removed from this thread since the beginning? How many have been auto-deleted like mine just were? We have no idea. Then we have the people who are smart enough to not post here to begin with, knowing that they'd be removed anyway.

But your explanation is that they must ALL be lying. There's no way this could possibly be happening because you don't see it here. Maybe, just maybe, there's a more reasonable explanation than that lol. Like how PM wouldn't want the masses knowing that they're appeasing people, because then everyone would demand the same, and it would cost them a ton of money, you know, the same thing they're chasing by shutting down the legacy rewards? 

[Wolfcore]

whataboutism's lol

One is based on programming experience, and knowing how code works. It's also based on how this hasn't happened to me for 5 weeks, and all of a sudden starts. Also based on the content of what I was trying to post, which could harm PM further. Also based on the person delivering me this information, etc. Just a lot of coincidences. Even still, I offered an explanation. If this has been happening for years, it just means they have incompetent programmers. I didn't just say they were lying, I said it was either/or. I'm willing to accept the incompetency answer.

Yours is literally based on nothing, other than "nobody else has said anything since then" (which I just proved to be a lie). So either you didn't do your own research, but were willing to make that false statement anyway, or you knew it was untrue, yet still made it. Both end in you defending the company who pays you money.

I haven't outright called you a shill (I don't think), but your actions are preciously those of someone who would be. Almost no difference whatsoever.

[ShawnC13]

I am surprised we don't have people in this thread saying they are getting anything from the CSA's.  All we are reading here is they are promoting the points system

[Wolfcore]

I went to go and doublecheck just to see if what you've said was true, and turns out it wasn't. There have been plenty more since that post, even some just a few days ago, and these are only the ones we know about. So I guess I was wrong about them telling CS Agents to shut this down as well. 


https://forums.redflagdeals.com/public-mobile-retiring-their-old-rewards-program-may-2024-2679876/49...

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I just went to submit a CCTS complaint, but had to message PM first and request them to resolve the issue.

I got a standard form response, to which I responded that I would be filing a CCTS complaint. Soon after that, I got a response from an escalation team manager who offered a free month of service. I responded saying I was also upset about the loss of the $1/month of loyalty reward for switching to public points, and he offered me a 1 month of free service, plus a $50 credit. He didn't say anything about this precluding me from also submitting a CCTS complaint so I took it (total $84 credit which has been applied to my account) and I will still be submitting a complaint.

Unless they end up reversing their decision (which I can't see happening), I'll be gone after my credits run in 3 or 4 months.

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https://forums.redflagdeals.com/public-mobile-retiring-their-old-rewards-program-may-2024-2679876/53...

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I followed your process, contacted PM, told them secretly removing the "1 point for every month you have been with PM" is not okay. Got standard response. Replied I will complain. The phrase "CCTS complaint" triggered escalation and was quickly contacted by escalation agent who offered 1 month of free service. Negotiated and asked for 3 months free service, he made an exception and gave me that ($45 credit- this is very close to my actual loss from moving to new program so only asked for that much). Next, I will complain to CCTS anyway.

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https://forums.redflagdeals.com/public-mobile-retiring-their-old-rewards-program-may-2024-2679876/53...

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I was given a $30 credit with no conditions. Before I accepted it, I said I was continuing with my CCTS complaint but they applied it to my account anyway. So, as far as I am concerned, this $30 credit was simply a gesture on their part (recognition of the upset they've caused?) but not compensation.

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https://forums.redflagdeals.com/public-mobile-retiring-their-old-rewards-program-may-2024-2679876/54...

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Public mobile offered 1 free month of service after I told them I'd be filing a CCTS complaint. Unsure of what I'll do..

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[ShawnC13]

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@Wolfcore wrote:

Or, what's more likely, is that they reprimanded that CS Agent, and informed all of their CS Agents that they should not be doing that moving forward. They were probably flooded with similar requests after that post, where that post was used as reference. To say that person is lying is a bit unfounded, and I'd say leaning more towards shill-sounding (defending based on assumption, and without evidence). That person isn't just some random new account, it's a person who's been on RFD for years, with thousands of posts and upvotes.

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So my comment is unfounded what about the following by you?

@Wolfcore wrote:

Nothing is coincidental. There's either an algorithm to detect something, or there isn't. If a feature just randomly works sometimes, and then randomly stops working, and has been doing this for years, you either have incompetent programmers, or you're lying. But it also wouldn't randomly only apply to certain users and certain posts. If they have incompetent people running this thing, then fair enough, but it's definitely very suspicious, and wouldn't make sense to be operating this way from a programming standpoint. Thanks for the info anyway, appreciate it.

[hTideGnow]

hi @Wolfcore I saw that posts on RFD before, but we didn't see anyone else post here with similar experience.  So, I would trust such posts no matter what the history the person has on another site.  Even it is real, it is just a one off, and with no one else able to confirm it, it could be just a specific situation that person in and not apply to the rest of us

[Wolfcore]

You could message them all manually, but fair enough, thanks for the explanation.

[Wolfcore]

Or, what's more likely, is that they reprimanded that CS Agent, and informed all of their CS Agents that they should not be doing that moving forward. They were probably flooded with similar requests after that post, where that post was used as reference. To say that person is lying is a bit unfounded, and I'd say leaning more towards shill-sounding (defending based on assumption, and without evidence). That person isn't just some random new account, it's a person who's been on RFD for years, with thousands of posts and upvotes.

[hTideGnow]

thanks God the spam and junk filter is working again.  Just too many repeat posts here

[ShawnC13]

@Wolfcore, if there are a lot of posts that reply to the post that is removed that is what happens.  I can leave a message for the one post that is moved but it won't do that for all of the replies that are downline from the original post.

[ShawnC13]

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@RetiredGuy1 wrote:

Posted on behalf of @Wolfcore 

There have been a couple that were posted in this thread, but I'm not going to go read 4k+ messages to find them. I do have one on hand though, from redflag:

https://forums.redflagdeals.com/public-mobile-retiring-their-old-rewards-program-may-2024-2679876/5/...

I messaged the CS_Agent and politely asked if they could do anything. The goal of the migration is to have everyone under one rewards system he said. I explained I will be losing $6-7 a month because of this ($2 autopay, $5 loyalty).

After some back and forth was able to get him to apply 500 intl minutes and 2 months of bill credits ($15 x 2). Will help to soften the blow for 6 months once the points start to kick in to offset the loss. Will see what happens after that. It does not hurt to ask. Told him I didn't want or care about the data bonus gift, preferred extra minutes and bill credits instead. Not sure if the data will still be included regardless.

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@RetiredGuy1 @Wolfcore, I read that early on in the RFD thread but I really don't think that happened.  If it did there were would be a lot more posts like that every time someone got that CSA.  I believe that post was made within days of the announcement and 5.5 weeks later we don't hear more about it really makes me doubt that it did happen.

[ily]

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@Wolfcore wrote:

Every time I try and respond to you, it's being "auto-deleted", and removed as "spam". I'll DM you instead, and maybe you can try posting it here.

Edit: DM sent.

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Here's the link: https://forums.redflagdeals.com/public-mobile-retiring-their-old-rewards-program-may-2024-2679876/5/...

Let's see if it survives.

[HALIMACS]

If the following is of any help, it’s been suggested by some over the years as possible causes to posts being relegated to the unmoderated wasteland:

1. wording resembling profanity, advertising or services.
2. incorrect URL’s or the wrong format, such as starting with http:/.
3. text similar to an HTML or elements of it...etc...
4. any wording that could be misinterpreted as an advertisement
5. spelling mistakes or issues related to spelling
6. avoiding long sequences of text by creating more paragraphs 

[RetiredGuy1]

Oops, my bad as I missed that in my cut-and-paste action. Here it is:

But yeah, there have been a bunch of people reporting stuff like this. It's the luck of the draw really (as it is with most customer support in general). If your agent is in a good mood, sometimes you get lucky.

I've done this with Rogers hundreds of times over the years. You'll talk to somebody who says "sorry, nothing we can do for you", and then immediately after that, you speak to somebody else, and they offer you the world. Sometimes switching up your approach/wording helps too.

[Wolfcore]

He seems to pick and choose who to give a reason to though (unless somebody else just so happens to be deleting messages at the same time as him). For example, he'll delete 20 messages, but only reply to one person saying something like "your message has been moved due to x reason". The other 19 don't get an explanation. But yeah, better than nothing I suppose. If somebody else is deleting the others, then disregard this lol

[Wolfcore]

If this stays up, it means my account is being targeted personally for some reason, or the last little blurb that @RetiredGuy1 didn't include, was triggering the system. Which would be odd, considering it was just a generic statement.

Edit: trying to include the last blurb in this message, to see what happens:

But yeah, there have been a bunch of people reporting stuff like this. It's the luck of the draw really (as it is with most customer support in general). If your agent is in a good mood, sometimes you get lucky.

I've done this with Rogers hundreds of times over the years. You'll talk to somebody who says "sorry, nothing we can do for you", and then immediately after that, you speak to somebody else, and they offer you the world. Sometimes switching up your approach/wording helps too.

[RetiredGuy1]

Posted on behalf of @Wolfcore 

There have been a couple that were posted in this thread, but I'm not going to go read 4k+ messages to find them. I do have one on hand though, from redflag:

https://forums.redflagdeals.com/public-mobile-retiring-their-old-rewards-program-may-2024-2679876/5/...

I messaged the CS_Agent and politely asked if they could do anything. The goal of the migration is to have everyone under one rewards system he said. I explained I will be losing $6-7 a month because of this ($2 autopay, $5 loyalty).

After some back and forth was able to get him to apply 500 intl minutes and 2 months of bill credits ($15 x 2). Will help to soften the blow for 6 months once the points start to kick in to offset the loss. Will see what happens after that. It does not hurt to ask. Told him I didn't want or care about the data bonus gift, preferred extra minutes and bill credits instead. Not sure if the data will still be included regardless.

[Wolfcore]

Every time I try and respond to you, it's being "auto-deleted", and removed as "spam". I'll DM you instead, and maybe you can try posting it here.

Edit: DM sent.

[Wolfcore]

Nothing is coincidental. There's either an algorithm to detect something, or there isn't. If a feature just randomly works sometimes, and then randomly stops working, and has been doing this for years, you either have incompetent programmers, or you're lying. But it also wouldn't randomly only apply to certain users and certain posts. If they have incompetent people running this thing, then fair enough, but it's definitely very suspicious, and wouldn't make sense to be operating this way from a programming standpoint. Thanks for the info anyway, appreciate it.