Upcoming Changes to our Old Rewards Program

[J_PM]

Hey Community,

We have an important announcement to share with our subscribers who are currently enrolled in our old Rewards program.

We’re making changes to our rewards program and are sharing how these changes impact some of our subscribers. Starting in May, we’ll be retiring our old Rewards program and moving all subscribers to our Public Points™ program. 

We launched the Public Points™ program in January 2022 to provide our subscribers with more ways to earn and spend rewards, with greater flexibility. As part of our commitment to continuously evolve our products and services, it's time to retire our old Rewards program and shift our focus on enhancing our Points program.

To show our appreciation for your continued loyalty, subscribers on our old Rewards program will receive a special thank you. We'll send you a text message when it has been added to your account by March 31st. 

We’re excited to continue providing you, our valued subscribers, more opportunities to earn and spend rewards with Public Points™ moving forward.

To learn more about your move to Public Points, check out our FAQ here.

The Public Mobile Team

[NoseyNick1]

> doesn't change the ToS that is agreed to every 30 days when you renew. 

This one could be interesting, legally, too. If I Autorenew every 30 days, do I actually accept the ToS? Automatically? Regardless? Including the hypothetical 1000% price increase? or the very real 70 to 100% increase?

I've arguably shot myself in the foot my posting here, sure, shown that I have seen the popup, but what if I...

• hadn't seen the popup (no need to log in if I autorenew right?)
• hadn't got the email (I've seen other people's, but never got it myself, and it's not in my spam, or even my email server logs),
• hadn't been texted (unless you count the 5GB/150 surprise, which does, for real, say "delivering on our promise" BTW, and "for your continued loyalty", but nowhere does it say "because our loyalty/Rewards are going away")
• didn't get the letter, fax, telegram, carrier-pigeon, or smoke signals

... would I still, legally-speaking, have accepted the new ToS / loss of loyalty / Rewards?   😕

... but honestly, even if that held water, legally, it's still the ToS versus ALL the other repeated promises/statements/marketing/pledges/assurances, time after time after time.

[RetiredGuy1]

Well, we’ll have to agree to disagree then. I recognize that, for some, spending a few dollars more each month is a bigger impact on their budget than others. But, I suspect the majority are upset over the principle of yet another corporate overlord trampling on us peons. I don’t quite understand your point about Points being around since 2022 and nobody posting here complaining about “second class savings” for those subs. The fact rewards program customers refused to switch to Points since it was introduced over two years ago speaks volumes in and by itself. Points subs never had the benefits of the rewards program so they’re not losing anything from the forced migration.

[hTideGnow]

hi @ShawnC13 and truth is, there is no winning class action against rewards system change of any kind. Sad fact but true 

[ShawnC13]

---

@NoseyNick1 wrote:

If I wrote "5 years" on a contract, I'd be held to it. In most countries, if I say "5 years" in an advert, I'd better be ready to deliver it, or face penalties for false advertising. Marketing material still present on their own website can be considered to be somewhat legally binding too. "We can change this any time we want any way we want" is one of those contract stipulations that usually quickly falls apart in a court of law, especially when other promises (pledges, semi-binding statements, adverts, offers, whatever) have been made.

---

The "contract" here is 30 days.  If that last part is true then why hasn't someone organized a class action?  I would think a class action lawyer would love to get something like this and stick it to somebody like Telus, if their  stipulations quickly fall apart in the court of law,

[hTideGnow]

hi @RetiredGuy1 people are not that interested in "protesting against large corporations", they are just fighting for their couoke $ savings per month.  

Public Points reward is not new, it was introduced in 2022.  None of the people replied here ever protest against the not so great value system . None of them questioned why some new subscribers got a second class savings. Just that one day they wake up and found out their wallet hurts and they start caring "PM is being greedy".  Consumers, including me, are greedy too .  Just that people now emphasize their "loyalty" and tone down the greed they have

[ShawnC13]

@NoseyNick1 , so why does everyone refer to information that was posted but not the ToS.  As we know every company to offer rewards is going to have the same sort of wording about being able to change/disconitnue the rewards at any time.  The ToS would have been worded like that from the start.  Going and getting meanings of words sure spell it out it doesn't change the ToS that is agreed to every 30 days when you renew.  

The move that really upset me was when they removed the 1pt for every 30 days you have been with PM conversion.  That would have been a few free months of service for many people.

[RetiredGuy1]

I’m not singling you out @hTideGnow as I know other posters are using the ToS and the legal right of PM to do what they did to defend their actions. But, I can’t help but feel taking that position is kind of like “not seeing the forest for the trees”. There’s a bigger picture here. PM touted/boasted/splashed all over their website how great the rewards program was and, lets be honest, it was arguably the best among all carriers. So successful that they leveraged the rewards program to build a customer base largely premised on the fact that, despite a lack of plan features other carriers offered, the bottom line was the discounted price offered hard-to-beat bang for your buck. Many posters here have stated that repeatedly. But now, just look at competitor plans. One could argue PM has gone from the best-value tier 3 provider to one of the worst. I believe its that swing - all at once - which is just too much to take for many, many customers. Throw in the lack of any communications explaining the need for such a swing, and its just human nature to suspect the worst and conclude PM is being greedy and not showing any respect to its loyal customers.

Finally, looking at an even bigger picture, it warms my heart to see more activism, boycotting, and protesting against large corporations than perhaps ever before. Its past time people took a stand and made their voice heard. I’d do a parody of a certain Twisted Sister hit but then this post would vanish so I won’t.😁

[HALIMACS]

For a moment, with the extensive use of qualifiers being thrown about, I thought perhaps this thread was delving into something a tad bit more vital to life (ie.  food, water, shelter, medication, clean air, freedom …)

Alas, we are still writing about mobile service providers.

[NoseyNick1]

> PM could have said "we'll give you a free car after 5 years of service"

[citation needed]  😉  ... but if PM or Wolfcore are giving me a free car, a real one, I might remain loyal for the rest of my 5yrs and even accept a 200% price increase  😉

Thanks for the laughs all 😄  No thanks for the "loyalty", PM  😞

[hTideGnow]

hi @NoseyNick1 yes, technical yes, they have the right to increase 1000%, that's why the 30 or 60 days notice is to let everyone a chance to get out

in terms of whether they used the right properly, I think they did. Some complaints already came back rejected and case close stating clearly that this is not something those government agencies can help

[Wolfcore]

The thing is, these people don't consider these things to be promises to begin with, not even the concept itself. Because to them, these things aren't lies. To them, they say that since the ToS was in place at the time, this disqualifies these things as being lies. "They weren't lying, the ToS nullifies whatever potential promises they made".

They don't even see it as an immoral/unethical thing to do, because to them, everybody else does it anyway, so nobody should be angry (even though what PM did was far different than the others). PM could have said "we'll give you a free car after 5 years of service", went back on their word after the 4th year, terminated this, and these people would still say that you shouldn't be angry, because of the ToS lol. 

I believe any rational person could understand how, even though their ToS may allow it, that this is still an immoral/unethical practice (where people have a reason to feel mislead), and that this company should face some consequences for their actions. But these people don't, which means they are most likely bad-faith actors playing some sort of role here.

[NoseyNick1]

> I think we have to also read the terms in the legacy rewards telling us that PM has the right to make change to the rewards program with notice

Sure, but, OK, let's take this to an illogical extreme. If PM decided to increase prices 1000%, with notice, in the form of a popup that looks like it might be a mistake, I think people would rightfully feel offended, even if it's technically allowed, it's not reasonable. So where do we draw the line? Would a 100% price increase be acceptable? 70%? 50%?

How about if they first repeatedly said "you'll be fine for years, we're keeping this the same, don't panic, this is optional, you're good, you'll continue to pay the same or less, you can keep this as long as you remain a loyal customer... oh actually haha only joking let's double your bill"?

If I wrote "5 years" on a contract, I'd be held to it. In most countries, if I say "5 years" in an advert, I'd better be ready to deliver it, or face penalties for false advertising. Marketing material still present on their own website can be considered to be somewhat legally binding too. "We can change this any time we want any way we want" is one of those contract stipulations that usually quickly falls apart in a court of law, especially when other promises (pledges, semi-binding statements, adverts, offers, whatever) have been made.  😕

[hTideGnow]

hi @NoseyNick1 I think we have to also read the terms in the legacy rewards telling us that PM has the right to make change to the rewards program with notice

[RetiredGuy1]

Agreed. Stating “promise” was never published on PMs website is a weak argument. Whether the actual word “promise” was used or the fact the statements they made could very clearly be interpreted as a commitment comes down to semantics. Whether they “broke a promise” or “failed to honour a commitment” has no material effect on the outcome resulting from the forced migration to points.

[NoseyNick1]

> I have never seen PM use the word PROMISE referring to legacy rewards

This may, or may not, be technically correct, but c'mon, it feels like we are playing word games here.

PM's words: "After staying with Public Mobile for 1 year, you will earn $1 off each 30 day period. After 2 years, your Reward will increase to $2 off each 30 day period - it'll continue to increase every year up to year 5" sounds like it will continue to increase up to year 5 (at least)? This does not sound like "unless we change our minds earlier". It sounds like they are making (at least) a 5 year commitment... brave, but in a market where data continues to get cheaper and more plentiful every year, not unrealistic. Why say "every year up to year 5" if they didn't mean every year up to year 5?!?

PM's words: "After 5 years and onwards, $5/30 days" - what part of that says "actually, we're lying about the 5 years - we may change our mind after 2.5"?

How about "[...] earn a recurring Loyalty Reward for as long as you remain an active Public Mobile customer on that account"?

How about "will continue to accumulate as long as your account remains active"?

How about "Switching [from Rewards] to Public Points is optional"?

How about "Legacy Public Rewards will not be changing"?

Time after time after time after time, PM have made ... statements ... that would look, by any reasonable definition, like "promises", even if the word "promise" may not have been used explicitly... until one day, quite suddenly, with no email (for some of us), no texts, we log in randomly and get a popup "Starting May, we are retiring our old Rewards program". This looks, initially, like it must be a mistake, perhaps an early April Fool, because it contradicts all previous messaging, even very recent messaging, even current messaging, still present, elsewhere on their website!

Let's not argue over technicalities, let's call a spade a spade. We were repeatedly told we were good as long as we remain a customer, with "5 years" being used as a frequent example which (it turns out) they have no intention of honouring.

The word "loyalty" is even right there.
Loyalty: Noun. The state or quality of being loyal; faithfulness to commitments or obligations
Loyal: Adj. faithful to one's vow, pledge, oath, commitments, promises, or obligations

What part of "loyalty"... What part of "5 years and onwards"... What part of "as long as [I] remain a PM customer"... did I misunderstand?  😮

[hTideGnow]

I think PM has been very open about posting other carriers price here on this thread.  

But here is no RFD, I agree PM should tighten it up again. Afterall, we should respect this is a PM field here 

[Wolfcore]

If this thread was as controlled as you feel it is why has it been allowed to talk about other providers and what they are offering?!?!?!

They weren't allowed in the beginning (you know that, you even said it), but it eventually became overwhelming, because everybody started talking about them. Removing them all would just cause more outrage and chaos. Promotion of other companies is also not that big of a deal. The information of these available plans are out there already, it's on the internet. If somebody is actually in the market for a new plan, they'd find them regardless. Them being posted to PM doesn't really change anything there.

Whereas posting internal/private messages/negotiations with PM, where it shows PM giving out benefits/compensation to only certain members, and not others, is very bad for PM. They have thousands of angry customers already, and having people find out that not only have they removed their rewards program, but they've also been rejected any form of compensation (while others have been given some), would only anger them more. Would destroy their reputation further, and they'd end up having to appease more people, which would cost them more money. So yes, these two don't even come close to each other, and there's a reason for one to be targeted over the other. It's definitely more of a reasonable explanation than "everybody else is just lying".

Edited to add:  Were your posts auto-deleted or moved to your moderated posts section.  Yes there are times this comes up out of the blue as others have mentioned there are threads about that in the community just happening randomly.

They were rejected; tossed onto my rejection page. Within seconds. I even tried just posting a new message, saying "hi", and editing it later, replacing it with my original rejected message, and it was deleted as well. 

[hTideGnow]

hi @ShawnC13 I guess people know they can lie about these freebies in PM own site as they have ways to validate 

[Wolfcore]

No, it's saying that your actions are that of a shill. Whether you're a shill or not in the traditional sense, is a different story. I don't think you're being paid to pose as a customer (a salary/contract). I think you are a real customer, who just so happens to be paid for your services unrelated to shilling (Oracle). But, because of that payment (and maybe some pride in your status or whatever), you've chosen to try and protect the company by all means necessary, which is why you're performing the exact same actions that a true shill would. Have you been told to do this by PM? I can't say for sure, and that's why I'm not calling you a shill. I'm simply saying that you're doing everything a real shill would. You've already told me that you've loyal to PM, because of the money you save.

It's funny, because I did notice that "promise" comment, but chose not to speak up on it. This is exactly what a shill would do. They use wordplay to try and manipulate. You know very well that you don't have to use the literal word "promise", in order to make a promise. "'till death do us part", is a promise. A contract is a promise (it doesn't need to include that specific word), etc. I honestly thought you were better than that. But to play silly word games like that for the sake of defending this company, really changes things.

Even the fact that you're ignoring the evidence I just presented where I show you being a liar, and instead, try and correct my grammar/spelling mistake lol, tells us a lot. I just called you out, and there hasn't been a response. I'd love to hear your explanation for why you gave that false statement. You either jumped to their defense without doing any research, or you knew it, but lied anyway. Both are nearly identical to me, and just as bad as each other. I can't think of a reasonable explanation for you doing that, to be honest.

[ShawnC13]

1000's of messages?!?!?!  If this thread was as controlled as you feel it is why has it been allowed to talk about other providers and what they are offering?!?!?!  I would think those would be removed and anyone getting something would be left up showing PM is trying to keep customers happy

Edited to add:  Were your posts auto-deleted or moved to your moderated posts section.  Yes there are times this comes up out of the blue as others have mentioned there are threads about that in the community just happening randomly.

[ShawnC13]

---

@Wolfcore wrote:

I haven't outright called you a shill (I don't think), but your actions are preciously those of someone who would be. Almost no difference whatsoever.

---

So this comment isn't calling me that?  I actually think you meant precisely not preciously.  As mentioned  many times in this thread that wording and intrepretation is a big thing. As an example, I say I have never seen PM use the word PROMISE referring to legacy rewards for ever, and you say what I have quoted above.  All about intrepretation.

Call or think about me what you will, I know that for my family and our needs this is the best place.  There are some close options and will see what happens if/when how many referrals leave what that looks like here.

[Wolfcore]

You're surprised that you're not seeing people say this stuff, on a platform controlled by the very people they're informing about? 🤣

That's like wondering why we don't hear about government corruption on the news, when the news is being subsidized by the government 😂

For one, there have been what? Thousands of messages removed from this thread since the beginning? How many have been auto-deleted like mine just were? We have no idea. Then we have the people who are smart enough to not post here to begin with, knowing that they'd be removed anyway.

But your explanation is that they must ALL be lying. There's no way this could possibly be happening because you don't see it here. Maybe, just maybe, there's a more reasonable explanation than that lol. Like how PM wouldn't want the masses knowing that they're appeasing people, because then everyone would demand the same, and it would cost them a ton of money, you know, the same thing they're chasing by shutting down the legacy rewards? 

[Wolfcore]

whataboutism's lol

One is based on programming experience, and knowing how code works. It's also based on how this hasn't happened to me for 5 weeks, and all of a sudden starts. Also based on the content of what I was trying to post, which could harm PM further. Also based on the person delivering me this information, etc. Just a lot of coincidences. Even still, I offered an explanation. If this has been happening for years, it just means they have incompetent programmers. I didn't just say they were lying, I said it was either/or. I'm willing to accept the incompetency answer.

Yours is literally based on nothing, other than "nobody else has said anything since then" (which I just proved to be a lie). So either you didn't do your own research, but were willing to make that false statement anyway, or you knew it was untrue, yet still made it. Both end in you defending the company who pays you money.

I haven't outright called you a shill (I don't think), but your actions are preciously those of someone who would be. Almost no difference whatsoever.

[ShawnC13]

I am surprised we don't have people in this thread saying they are getting anything from the CSA's.  All we are reading here is they are promoting the points system

[Wolfcore]

I went to go and doublecheck just to see if what you've said was true, and turns out it wasn't. There have been plenty more since that post, even some just a few days ago, and these are only the ones we know about. So I guess I was wrong about them telling CS Agents to shut this down as well. 


https://forums.redflagdeals.com/public-mobile-retiring-their-old-rewards-program-may-2024-2679876/49...

---

---

I just went to submit a CCTS complaint, but had to message PM first and request them to resolve the issue.

I got a standard form response, to which I responded that I would be filing a CCTS complaint. Soon after that, I got a response from an escalation team manager who offered a free month of service. I responded saying I was also upset about the loss of the $1/month of loyalty reward for switching to public points, and he offered me a 1 month of free service, plus a $50 credit. He didn't say anything about this precluding me from also submitting a CCTS complaint so I took it (total $84 credit which has been applied to my account) and I will still be submitting a complaint.

Unless they end up reversing their decision (which I can't see happening), I'll be gone after my credits run in 3 or 4 months.

---

https://forums.redflagdeals.com/public-mobile-retiring-their-old-rewards-program-may-2024-2679876/53...

---

---

I followed your process, contacted PM, told them secretly removing the "1 point for every month you have been with PM" is not okay. Got standard response. Replied I will complain. The phrase "CCTS complaint" triggered escalation and was quickly contacted by escalation agent who offered 1 month of free service. Negotiated and asked for 3 months free service, he made an exception and gave me that ($45 credit- this is very close to my actual loss from moving to new program so only asked for that much). Next, I will complain to CCTS anyway.

---

https://forums.redflagdeals.com/public-mobile-retiring-their-old-rewards-program-may-2024-2679876/53...

---

---

I was given a $30 credit with no conditions. Before I accepted it, I said I was continuing with my CCTS complaint but they applied it to my account anyway. So, as far as I am concerned, this $30 credit was simply a gesture on their part (recognition of the upset they've caused?) but not compensation.

---

https://forums.redflagdeals.com/public-mobile-retiring-their-old-rewards-program-may-2024-2679876/54...

---

---

Public mobile offered 1 free month of service after I told them I'd be filing a CCTS complaint. Unsure of what I'll do..

---

[ShawnC13]

---

---

@Wolfcore wrote:

Or, what's more likely, is that they reprimanded that CS Agent, and informed all of their CS Agents that they should not be doing that moving forward. They were probably flooded with similar requests after that post, where that post was used as reference. To say that person is lying is a bit unfounded, and I'd say leaning more towards shill-sounding (defending based on assumption, and without evidence). That person isn't just some random new account, it's a person who's been on RFD for years, with thousands of posts and upvotes.

---

---

So my comment is unfounded what about the following by you?

@Wolfcore wrote:

Nothing is coincidental. There's either an algorithm to detect something, or there isn't. If a feature just randomly works sometimes, and then randomly stops working, and has been doing this for years, you either have incompetent programmers, or you're lying. But it also wouldn't randomly only apply to certain users and certain posts. If they have incompetent people running this thing, then fair enough, but it's definitely very suspicious, and wouldn't make sense to be operating this way from a programming standpoint. Thanks for the info anyway, appreciate it.

[hTideGnow]

hi @Wolfcore I saw that posts on RFD before, but we didn't see anyone else post here with similar experience.  So, I would trust such posts no matter what the history the person has on another site.  Even it is real, it is just a one off, and with no one else able to confirm it, it could be just a specific situation that person in and not apply to the rest of us

[Wolfcore]

You could message them all manually, but fair enough, thanks for the explanation.

[Wolfcore]

Or, what's more likely, is that they reprimanded that CS Agent, and informed all of their CS Agents that they should not be doing that moving forward. They were probably flooded with similar requests after that post, where that post was used as reference. To say that person is lying is a bit unfounded, and I'd say leaning more towards shill-sounding (defending based on assumption, and without evidence). That person isn't just some random new account, it's a person who's been on RFD for years, with thousands of posts and upvotes.