A letter from Dave to the Community: Introducing bigger and better Community Rewards

[Dave_M]

Hello Community,

It has been a while since I last posted a letter to the Community. Today, I am excited to be back here with an update on our Community Rewards program. The whole team is excited about these changes and we hope you will be, as well.

A few weeks ago, the Oracles brought our Community Rewards front and center and shared with us that there was some confusion and perceived unfairness surrounding how the Top 0.1%/Oracle award gets applied every month. We are thankful for all of you who shared your feedback and for the Oracles who shone a light on that for us.

Your feedback has helped us recognize that we had an opportunity to clean up and simplify our Rewards. To that end, we are changing our Community Rewards to make things fairer and easier to understand. On top of that, we are delighted to increase the Reward amounts (full details below!). Our online support model could not work without the tremendous support that you, our Community members, provide so we thought it very fitting to increase the Rewards as we went through this review. Your contribution and support, as always, is greatly appreciated, and we hope you’ll enjoy these changes as much as we do.

Sincerely,

Dave

Details:
FAQs:

Question	Answer
What has changed?	1. We now reward Oracles on a clearly separate level from other contributors, allowing our other Community users to achieve the top Rewards level.   2. The Rewards buckets will be grouped in Top 50%, 25%, 10%, 5%, and 1% buckets in favour of eliminating confusing decimals (We’re looking at you, Top 0.5%!) and to make the Rewards levels less intimidating to navigate. 3. The Reward amount has increased at almost every level – Oh yeah!
Why are these changes happening?	As suggested by our Oracles, we’ve made these changes so that our Community Rewards will be more fair and easier to understand. As we reviewed our Community Rewards, we also thought it was fitting to increase their value, as our online support model could not work without the tremendous support you and our other Community members provide.  Thank you for all your help - keep it going!
I’m currently earning a Community Reward every month. How is this going to affect me?	The short answer: it depends. The amount you are rewarded depends on your contribution level relative to overall contribution, which can change month to month even if you contribute very consistently.   All things equal, if you’re in the Top 10% or above for June, you’ll find yourself a bigger Community Reward. Sweet, right? If you’re in the Top 50% or Top 25% in June, your Community Reward value will remain the same. If you don’t get a Reward, don’t get discouraged! Keep helping others out in the Community and you’ll get there.
When will this change be taking place?	The new Community Rewards structure will come into effect beginning June 1st, 2018. The June 2018 Community Rewards and beyond will follow the new structure.
Will this affect the way rewards are calculated in May 2018?	No - for the month of May, the Rewards will continue to follow the current structure and will be unaffected by this change.
Is everyone in the Top 1% going to become an Oracle?	No, Oracles are chosen based on merit, along with maintaining a certain level of contribution. This contribution can take different forms, such as providing the Public Mobile Community Team with constructive feedback, or helping other Community members with their questions.  To learn more about how to become an Oracle, click here.

[bbminer]

The rewards are great to have 

[youbme]

All in all, this is a solid improvement for everyone. As already discussed many times over the past three years, there are inherent problems with the rewards model - even with algorithms in place to minimise 'gaming' the system, there are always loopholes and not everyone who deserves a reward gets one.

As the customer base continues to grow, it becomes more and more challenging to earn top level rewards, but the point of engaging in the community shouldn't be to get paid - as we know, the hours put in to being on this forum are not worth the rewards received, instead being active here is about building community and helping each other out. The rewards add a nice motivation to actually be active and acknowledge those who contribute regularly, but don't expect a wage!

[ckl]

Wow. I'm glad I stayed and didn't jump ship to Koodo!

[jp2]

@Dave_M just so you know, I was just in my self serve account and notice the message about earning community rewards in the top right hasn't been updated to reflect the new community reward amount  

[pakmode]

Just catching up now. This is awesome. 

[jt17g]

thankyou for the good offer 😄

[makkahn28]

I do agree, the way the rewards for Community is done maybe a bit broken, and maybe needs a tune-up, like everything, maintenance maybe the key to fixing such an anomaly

[jp2]

How many times your post is read could also be a factor. 

I think people that put in the time long ago should still be rewarded for it if people are finding it helpful and brovoing it. Why shouldn't it count?

I could see not giving rewards to community members that don't have an active account attached. This way if you die you aren't taking rewards from people that could actually use them 

[mimmo]

@kav2001c  what do you mean appropriate reward?  do you have some examples?  As mentioned above having only received bravos, Martin occasionally gets a 50 or 25% level that is why i said bravos do factor in alot, since there are no other factors.  other factors may include time spent logged in, number of posts viewed, solutions given etc... (could be anything from private/public stats in user profile)

as mentioned previously and in a thread a while back I do not like the numerical/percentage qualifiers as they imply a mathematical formula to the number of awards given. if 5 people get the 1% reward it implies a base of 5000 users and  as such the 5% group should be 25-5=20  and so on. or when the 25% group is larger than the 50% group.  

---

@kav2001c wrote:

@mimmobut this is what throws me for a loop

I SEE people who get alot of bravos (being listed in top20 bravos) who yet do not get the appropriate reward, then a retired person who gets no (or very few) bravos somehow gets same rank reward

I still (and have always) argued the raw bravos do not matter much

There IS something else happening under the hood

---

[kav2001c]

@Jonavinand yet there IS something to do with your account activity

I had a grey badge for years (I somehow earned a badge while my account was in suspension so the community rewards were also never applied for those months)

So how do others do it?

Because some posters (many were listed above) seem to have it work

---

@Jonavin wrote:

I think there needs to be some transparency around who gets into these levels. If you have old posts from members getting credit and earning top spots, it doesn't seem fair to current customers.

---

I actually had an old account (now closed) where I was earning something crazy (like $50 per month in community rewards, I used to have a positive balance to buy add-ons even)

I still laugh because after 2 years or so when it was finally fixed, it only earned $2 in rewards so I emailed mods asking what happened and they were just like "um you know that was in error right"

I have expressed my concerns to Public that something in secret formula is broken

[kav2001c]

@mimmobut this is what throws me for a loop

I SEE people who get alot of bravos (being listed in top20 bravos) who yet do not get the appropriate reward, then a retired person who gets no (or very few) bravos somehow gets same rank reward

I still (and have always) argued the raw bravos do not matter much

There IS something else happening under the hood

---

@mimmo wrote:

---

@Jonavin wrote:

I think there needs to be some transparency around who gets into these levels. If you have old posts from members getting credit and earning top spots, it doesn't seem fair to current customers.

---

@Jonavin  its a secret formula to minimise gaming the system.  but bravos do factor a big part else inactive members such as martin would not receive rewards.  

---

[mimmo]

---

@Jonavin wrote:

I think there needs to be some transparency around who gets into these levels. If you have old posts from members getting credit and earning top spots, it doesn't seem fair to current customers.

---

@Jonavin  its a secret formula to minimise gaming the system.  but bravos do factor a big part else inactive members such as martin would not receive rewards.  

[Jonavin]

I think there needs to be some transparency around who gets into these levels. If you have old posts from members getting credit and earning top spots, it doesn't seem fair to current customers.

[SD08]

---

@Luddite wrote:

@SD08 Zounds; you really know your way around the Bravo machinations. 👍👍

You've reminded me to toast Martin tonight in thanks for all he taught me.

Thanks.  I believe that may be the first "tutorial" I've posted.

[Luddite]

@SD08 Zounds; you really know your way around the Bravo machinations. 👍👍

You've reminded me to toast Martin tonight in thanks for all he taught me.

---

When checking if a member has received bravos lately, I wouldn't just look at the dates listed under the "My Bravoed Posts" section in their profile. That list is sorted to include the member's latest messages which received any bravos, even if it's not their latest bravos, and the dates seen on that list are merely when those messages were posted.  It's a rather more complicated search to find the latest bravos.

For example, if we want to find these for Martin, here's how:
-On Martin's profile, click on the header of the "Bravos from" section on the lower right side column.  It should bring up a list of bravo donors sorted by date bravoed.
-Click to the profile of the latest bravo donor and then search through that member's "Posts I Bravoed" list, sorted by the tab "Bravos Given: To Posts".
-Click on posts under this list with Martin's name attached.
-Click on the bravo count under that post to see the list of members who bravoed that post and the date they bravoed.

---

If you are referring to Martin in this case, he did in fact earn bravos recently.
https://productioncommunity.publicmobile.ca/t5/Rewards/Community-Reward/m-p/30470/highlight/true#M44...

[SD08]

---

@kav2001c wrote:

...

how does a community member who has made 0 posts since 2015 (and according to profile page earned 0 bravos since 2016) earn rewards in 2018?

We are talking 3 years of inactivity here

... 

---

@kav2001c

If you are referring to Martin in this case, he did in fact earn bravos recently.
https://productioncommunity.publicmobile.ca/t5/Rewards/Community-Reward/m-p/30470/highlight/true#M44...

https://productioncommunity.publicmobile.ca/t5/Rewards/Community-Reward/m-p/41062#M720
https://productioncommunity.publicmobile.ca/t5/Rewards/Community-Reward/m-p/41288#M752
https://productioncommunity.publicmobile.ca/t5/Rewards/Community-Reward/m-p/41258#M741

The first two posts seem to be popular and receive bravos semi-regularly.

When checking if a member has received bravos lately, I wouldn't just look at the dates listed under the "My Bravoed Posts" section in their profile. That list is sorted to include the member's latest messages which received any bravos, even if it's not their latest bravos, and the dates seen on that list are merely when those messages were posted.  It's a rather more complicated search to find the latest bravos.

For example, if we want to find these for Martin, here's how:
-On Martin's profile, click on the header of the "Bravos from" section on the lower right side column.  It should bring up a list of bravo donors sorted by date bravoed.
-Click to the profile of the latest bravo donor and then search through that member's "Posts I Bravoed" list, sorted by the tab "Bravos Given: To Posts".
-Click on posts under this list with Martin's name attached.
-Click on the bravo count under that post to see the list of members who bravoed that post and the date they bravoed.

[Korth]

---

@kav2001c wrote:

But original point still stands; how does a community member who has made 0 posts since 2015 (and according to profile page earned 0 bravos since 2016) earn rewards in 2018?

We are talking 3 years of inactivity here

(and LESS rewards are being handed out now than previously so it should be even more difficult)

Although he is an extreme example it does show people who have quit are still earning rewards (our 2 former mods are another good example, as are Oracles who quit due to issues with PM) while somehow current posters are not? 

---

The simple answer is that these contributions (made by @Martin, @Kalla_A, @Mansi_G, @Lachlan_M, @Moid_I, @Val_T, @Igor_M, @Kenza_M, @Mat_F, and others) were posted years ago but they are still found relevant today.  In the opinions of some individual community members, anyhow.

There are no hard rules defining exactly what does and does not qualify for a Bravo.  I've given Bravos out for many reasons - "I approve, your post has merit", "you set a fine example", "I completely agree, there's nothing else to add", "thanks for failing but you made an effort", to things that made me chuckle, to whimsical fancies, to pity/encouragement for Bravo-less hopefuls, to simply reporting "I saw and read this post".

It's a democratic consensus.  Other people's votes (and reasons for voting) may overlap but will almost never fully align with your own.

[kav2001c]

@will13amif I worded it poorly I never meant offence

But original point still stands; how does a community member who has made 0 posts since 2015 (and according to profile page earned 0 bravos since 2016) earn rewards in 2018?

We are talking 3 years of inactivity here

(and LESS rewards are being handed out now than previously so it should be even more difficult)

Although he is an extreme example it does show people who have quit are still earning rewards (our 2 former mods are another good example, as are Oracles who quit due to issues with PM) while somehow current posters are not?

[will13am]

---

@kav2001c wrote:

@danleethis is so not true

There is a ghost in the machine (Martin) who still earns rewards to this day (years after he passed away)

So daily postings or solutions are irrelevant in the metric

---

@danlee wrote:

Somehow for one to earn rewards, you require lots of Bravos & Solved Solutions on a daily basis. 

---

---

This comment is borderline distasteful.  Does it matter if the metrics have certain biases as long as they are not biased towards certain individuals?  People should just focus on making the community successful and the rest will fall into place.

[will13am]

---

@Korth wrote:

I don't think of it as a competition.  Technically it is a competition, only 1% of PM costumers can/will be in the "Top 1%", etc.

I tend to focus on quality over quantity.

There's always gonna be people who swoop in and snatch the prize.  But it seems I do okay, those Bravos and Solutions keep trickling in, even when other people elbow their way forward.

There's always gonna be people who want/need the $ Community Reward more than I do.  But that's okay, I already save so much from my PM plan (compared to what I used to pay with another carrier) that I'm happy with or without another fistful of loonies, extra Rewards are just extra gravy on an already tasty meal.  People willing to "work hard" to get that Top 1% payout are welcome to it, lol, the commitment would be serious and the collateral fallout would help/inform more customers in a more timely fashion than would otherwise be available, lol.

---

I give you credit for having some of the longest diatribes.  

[will13am]

---

@computergeek541 wrote:

---

@ute1978 wrote:

"Participation" is probably a high rated point in the community rewards formula.

Do I "participate" if I sit in front of the computer, wait for a new topic to be opened and then just copy and paste my text to please contact mods? I can do that just to get into higher rankings.

That is the trend I am seeing. Not a lot of suggestions to resolve a problem, but a lot of "copy and paste" comments about contacting the mods.

---

I think that everyone would rather have personalized, individually typed response messges (from either other members or moderators) to questions that they have, but can understand why it is done and sometimes the need to save a little time, especially when things can get repetitive. 

I don't have an issue with "copy and paste", so much as it's a geniune attempt to help.  Many users are using "copy and paste" but then personalize individual messages as fit for the topic at hand.   As for the "contact the mod" messages, I think that's fine as long as contacting them is appropriate for that case (although I see many of the contact the mod messages when the situation has nothing to do with mods or anything that Public Mobile can do anything about).  But the long time users will see right through some of the useless "cut and paste" stuff that doesn't help anyone and won't bravo the post.

---

Generally, the response should fit the question or issue.  With respect to certain instructions such as contact the moderator team, there's nothing to customize.  Of course, the suggestion to contact the moderator team has to make sense.  Only account related issues that the customer is unable to resolve with community assistance should be referred to the moderator team.  

[zhadj030]

So maybe there is some time for me to come back now 

[SD08]

---

@Luddite wrote:

---

@jp2 wrote:

This is great news and will hopefully increase the activity on the community 

---

Nooooooo! I want less activity so I'll always be near the top. 

---

Lol @Luddite.  With great reward comes great responsibility...to do all the work.  But I've no doubt you're up to the task.  

[Someone_here]

Woah, that is great news, thanks!

When I saw the thread subject before reading the announcement, I was somehow expecting that the change would be mostly for the worst, but no 🙂

Well done, good news for the community, and definitively more fair/clear rules!

[SD08]

---

@kav2001c wrote:

@danleethis is so not true

There is a ghost in the machine (Martin) who still earns rewards to this day (years after he passed away)

So daily postings or solutions are irrelevant in the metric

---

@danlee wrote:

Somehow for one to earn rewards, you require lots of Bravos & Solved Solutions on a daily basis. 

---

---

Right. It's the sum of all your participation for the entire calendar month that determines your reward, not the daily activity. You could concentrate all your activity into one week or even one day and it would work out to the same reward as if you had spread it out evenly over the month.

[kav2001c]

@danleethis is so not true

There is a ghost in the machine (Martin) who still earns rewards to this day (years after he passed away)

So daily postings or solutions are irrelevant in the metric

---

@danlee wrote:

Somehow for one to earn rewards, you require lots of Bravos & Solved Solutions on a daily basis. 

---

[SD08]

What a pleasant surprise to find upon returning from being away for a bit.  This is awesome news.  I agree with @ShawnC13 that this is probably the best change introduced by PM in a while.  Now the reward distribution looks more proportionate to recognize contributions at various levels (e.g. 10% level added).  It's also great to see the hard-working community members get more reward for their efforts, especially the Oracles.  

[nigmea]

As a new customer I'm excited to see this sort of return and rewards for actively helping other people!

[JFF]

Like your attitude! @Korth Community this whole idea is to help and support each other in a positive way. We try to help out when we have the time and resouces, and seek for answers from time to time when we are in trouble. 🙂 

[jp2]

Everyone should bravo the OP in this thread so it will appear in the top bravoed posts board. Then at least one of the posts there will be positive about PM