VoLTE and US Roaming

[Kristowhy]

Hi all,

I realize and understand that PM currently does not support VoLTE here in Canada, but looking to understand what will happen with US roaming on US carrier networks with 3G decommissioning starting in January 2022. 

https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/plan-ahead-phase-out-3g-cellular-networks-and-service

For devices that technically support VoLTE while roaming in the US...can they use VoLTE when roaming in US on networks without 3G networks?  Or will roaming PM customers be without voice calls? 

How is this going to work?

[Kristowhy]

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@darlicious wrote:

@Kristowhy 

If pm is offering a product then they have to ensure the product offered actually works. If by February 2022 only voLTE calling is available when roaming in the US then guaranteed telus will have flipped the switch. 

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@darliciousIn a perfect world everything would work when promised, but we all have stories of products/services/companies where something didn't work out right as intended.   😀

Without any sort of information provided on the official PM site I would still be cautious (with a backup plan) when roaming in 2022. 

[Kristowhy]

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@darlicious wrote:

@Anonymous 

The CRTC announced in July of this year....

The CRTC wants Canadians to have better access to affordable wireless services for their cell phones and other mobile devices.

We are therefore expecting Bell, Rogers, Telus and SaskTel to offer and promote low-cost and occasional-use plans. These providers are expected to offer the following by July 14, 2021.

https://crtc.gc.ca/eng/phone/mobile/occa.htm

As such I expect pm to be offering voLTE in the near-ish future as per @Catherine_T 's post earlier this year in the Manitoba thread about loss of one of telus's 3G bands in the Winnipeg and Brandon areas.

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Koodo has already responded to the CRTC requirement with their postpaid "starter plans".  (Scroll to bottom of URL below)

https://www.koodomobile.com/rate-plans?INTCMP=KMNew_NavMenu_Shop_Plans

What's interesting is that they are basically carbon copies of PM's $15 and $35 plans offering 3G data speeds and only text SMS (no picture MMS), but crazy data overages of $13/100MB and 70c/min calls.  Since they are postpaid plans VoLTE would be possible.

Telus now has two brands with prepaid and one brand offering prepaid level pricing via postpaid.  It really makes me wonder what their strategy is moving forward and if maybe there will be consolidations...

[sheytoon]

@Anonymous yes, but I don't see how AT&T can read contents of your SIM. The operator name should only be visible on your phone.

[srlawren]

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@darlicious wrote:

As such I expect pm to be offering voLTE in the near-ish future as per @Catherine_T 's post earlier this year in the Manitoba thread about loss of one of telus's 3G bands in the Winnipeg and Brandon areas.

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@darlicious if there's one thing I've learned in my 6.08333333 years here, it's that you can expect anything you want, as long as you also expect it to happen at an agonizingly slow snail's pace.  Take that FWIW, your mileage may vary, objects in the mirror may appear closer than they are, etc.

[darlicious]

@Anonymous 

The CRTC announced in July of this year....

The CRTC wants Canadians to have better access to affordable wireless services for their cell phones and other mobile devices.

We are therefore expecting Bell, Rogers, Telus and SaskTel to offer and promote low-cost and occasional-use plans. These providers are expected to offer the following by July 14, 2021.

https://crtc.gc.ca/eng/phone/mobile/occa.htm

As such I expect pm to be offering voLTE in the near-ish future as per @Catherine_T 's post earlier this year in the Manitoba thread about loss of one of telus's 3G bands in the Winnipeg and Brandon areas.

[Anonymous]

 @srlawren : I dunno. This place is barely a going concern as it is. They don't appear to put very much of any resources into it. I would wonder that they'll just let it die on the vine. Or maybe offer only data-only plans with a side-effect of texting. With voip apps maybe that's not a bad thing. We know they often try to entice folks up to the 2nd or 1st tier. So 3G ends...upwards you go.

[srlawren]

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@hTideGnow wrote:

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@sheytoon wrote:

Unfortunately I don't have the power to enable VoLTE, but Telus will be doing it at some point. I don't have an ETA. My guess is sometime in the next 18 months.

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@sheytoon   did you mean you anticipate that Telus will enable VoLTE for PM in the next 18 months here?  or you just meant enable that for roaming with US carriers/

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@hTideGnow I know that both @sheytoon and @darlicious have already touched on this, but basically it boils down to: at some point in time, Telus will either have to offer VoLTE on PM or else close it down. 

NOTE: I am *not* trying to start or restart any rumours that PM will shut down and no I do not think it will happen; my point is that at some point the W-CDMA network will be mostly and then eventually completely sunsetted, meaning without VoLTE there would be no way for PM subscribers to make or receive phone calls.  If that were to happen, PM would effectively be shutting the doors.  So it's either "keep calm and VoLTE on", or "sorry, you can't do phone calls on our phone network" which would be corporate suicidie.

[Anonymous]

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@sheytoon wrote:

I don't think AT&T has any way to distinguish a Telus subscriber from a PM subscriber.

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 @sheytoon : I know the MCC and MNC are just Telus but isn't the name of the provider broadcasted from the SIM?

[sheytoon]

@hTideGnow yeah I meant Telus might enable VoLTE for PM in the next 18 months.

@Kristowhy again, it's outside of my expertise, but I think once outbound roaming is implemented for Telus subscribers on AT&T, it can only be selectively disabled on the Telus side. I don't think AT&T has any way to distinguish a Telus subscriber from a PM subscriber.

[darlicious]

@Kristowhy 

If pm is offering a product then they have to ensure the product offered actually works. If by February 2022 only voLTE calling is available when roaming in the US then guaranteed telus will have flipped the switch. 

[Kristowhy]

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@sheytoon wrote:

I'm not a core engineer but I'm mostly sure about my answer. Let's say outbound VoLTE roaming has been implemented for Telus subscribers on AT&T's network. At that point, Telus can decide to restrict it or enable it to a subset of their own customers (i.e. Koodo or PM) at will. PM is not an actual operator, there's no additional coordination needed with AT&T.

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Just to clarify @sheytoon, even with AT&T having flipped the VoLTE roaming "switch" to on, Telus still has to "enable" it for Koodo and/or PM?  

Both Koodo and PM both offer US roaming for these prepaid offerings.  Unfortunately the only documentation regarding roaming VoLTE support has been on Koodo's site and is for their postpaid customers. 

It seems like at present, PM customers can only assume that VoLTE roaming will work and Telus has this turned on.  I personally would not want to be a guinea pig and take a chance in 2022 without some form of clarification from PM.

If AT&T was not decommissioning in/by Feb 2022 this would be a moot issue.  And I have read both FCC and AT&T sites that confirm this time frame.  I have also seen this date mentioned in B&H Photo product reviews for their unlocked phones.

[hTideGnow]

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@sheytoon wrote:

Unfortunately I don't have the power to enable VoLTE, but Telus will be doing it at some point. I don't have an ETA. My guess is sometime in the next 18 months.

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@sheytoon   did you mean you anticipate that Telus will enable VoLTE for PM in the next 18 months here?  or you just meant enable that for roaming with US carriers/

[sheytoon]

Unfortunately I don't have the power to enable VoLTE, but Telus will be doing it at some point. I don't have an ETA. My guess is sometime in the next 18 months.

[sheytoon]

I'm not a core engineer but I'm mostly sure about my answer. Let's say outbound VoLTE roaming has been implemented for Telus subscribers on AT&T's network. At that point, Telus can decide to restrict it or enable it to a subset of their own customers (i.e. Koodo or PM) at will. PM is not an actual operator, there's no additional coordination needed with AT&T.

[Nezgar]

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@Kristowhy wrote:

I assume that this has been coordinated for PM as well?

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Personally I'm doubtful.... But I would be curious to hear first-hand results from anywhone who travels to the U.S...

[darlicious]

@Kristowhy 

Lol...I wouldn't put it past him!😃

[Kristowhy]

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@darlicious wrote:

@Kristowhy 

Well @sheytoon is the expert in this area so by his reply that would be a yes.

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Alrighty then, @darlicious I will put on my reading between the lines glasses. 😎😏

I wonder if @sheytoon can flip the domestic PM VoLTE switch too  🤔😁

[darlicious]

@Kristowhy 

Well @sheytoon is the expert in this area so by his reply that would be a yes.

[Kristowhy]

Some good responses here...thanks to all for engaging.

It seems like both device AND carrier must be enabled for VoLTE.   Koodo clearly states in their VoLTE FAQs that prepaid is currently not "supported" (but planned for the future), while their postpaid accounts should "automatically" work with VoLTE using compatible devices.

@sheytoonmakes a good point about roaming agreements and coordinated efforts with foreign carriers.  It seems to be "coordinated" with Koodo since their VoLTE FAQ also mentions that VoLTE roaming is available with

"select phones with the latest software installed will be able to place and receive calls over the LTE network instead of the HSPA network while roaming in the U.S. If there isn’t any VoLTE coverage, or if customers don't have a VoLTE-enabled device, customers will continue roaming on the 4G (HSPA) network. VoLTE roaming rates will be the same as current HSPA roaming rates.

I assume that this has been coordinated for PM as well?

[sheytoon]

It is possible for Telus to enable outbound VoLTE roaming, while keeping VoLTE disabled domestically for PM.

VoLTE roaming agreements and implementations must be coordinated between operators on a case by case basis.

[darlicious]

@Kristowhy 

Its device dependent rather than provider dependent. Eventually pm will have to offer voLTE so whether you are roaming in the US or using a local sim card in Japan or Italy as long as your device is compatible with the network offered you will have use of your phones features.

[hTideGnow · Accepted solution]

VoLTE   should work when roaming in USA as long as the phone is compatible and is offered by the carriers..  I don't think the data is capped at 3G while roaming, so, VoLTE should follow what offers by AT&T and TMobile