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Tipping

kav2001c
Mayor / Maire

Here's another loaded subject

Tipping

Some people refuse to do it, others use a low percentage, others insist on high percentage regardless of service due to "feeling bad" for the servers

 

So how much do you normally leave?

 

Do you tip just at restaurants, or other places (eg Coffee shops, Fastfood, heck even Oil Change places and Grocery Stores ask these days)

 

 

National Post just ran a story about how alcohol servers in Canada are pulling in $100,000 per year from tips

 

https://nationalpost.com/news/the-100000-a-year-waitress-isnt-a-myth-some-hard-truths-about-tipping-...

32 REPLIES 32

madhi19
Great Citizen / Super Citoyen

See what you did with those Tipping talk I have to watch Reservoir Dogs again...

@Anonymous 

Most commissioned salespeople get very low (often minimum) wage

Sales quotas must be made to get any kind of living wage

 


@Anonymous wrote:

@DL888 wrote:

Quick question for you guys...when tipping do you tip base on the sub-total or the grand total which include tax?


Sub-total.

 

@darlicious: nice to read the perspective. I don't see it as the same as commissioned sales. That's the employer rewarding the sales person for succeeding at their job. The sales person could do barely anything and still get that base wage. Of course the employer might have something to say about that.

Anonymous
Not applicable

@DL888 wrote:

Quick question for you guys...when tipping do you tip base on the sub-total or the grand total which include tax?


Sub-total.

 

@darlicious: nice to read the perspective. I don't see it as the same as commissioned sales. That's the employer rewarding the sales person for succeeding at their job. The sales person could do barely anything and still get that base wage. Of course the employer might have something to say about that.

I'm amazed how the tip gets divided out to the rest of the place. Yes I understand that the server has a whole support team making the meal show up for delivery and after-clean-up. But they don't have to deal with the customers. I think it's terrible that the employer will take their own cut too. This is the problem I have with being served (in any serving scenario) by the proprietor abd feeling compelled to tip. I don't like it but I do. It's that they're making all the profit. Why should they get free money?

DL888
Model Citizen / Citoyen Modèle

Quick question for you guys...when tipping do you tip base on the sub-total or the grand total which include tax?

Posting cut off....now I must remember the rest of this post.

In conclusion: the next time you are paying your bill and give a tip (to insure prompt service-TIPS). 

Consider how long you have worked at your profession. I've been doing mine for over 30 years. Do you deserve only $12.70 an hour. Do you have a college or university degree...i do just not in customer service or hospitality. Are you a red seal/journeyman at your trade? I certainly fit in that category. Tipping is not a city in China but yes it is entirely voluntary. Should salespeople be denied their commissions and only work for their base pay? Trust me servers have great memories for good tippers and bad tippers. While I give everyone the same service per se I will go out of my way to save your favourite special, squeeze in your reservation, return a forgotten item when you're a good customer but if your cheap I'm not going out of my way to help you out. You'll still get good service and a pleasant smile and a thank you when you walk out the door. Just remember this...like public mobile if you demand and expect customer service you have to pay a lot more for it. If your happy to do most of the work yourself to save money you get up a little earlier and brown bag your lunch or eat at the cafeteria. It's your choice: Telus, Koodo or Public Mobile?

Well, well,well isn't this an interesting discussion and one from what I can tell has not had an actual server (that's what were called nowadays it's gender neutral.) Now you've got one and I will try to comment on the topics brought up. First of all pay as in minimum wage and in Vancouver B.C. servers get paid $12.70 per hour a$1.15 less than other minimum wage workers. Those who say we should just be working for the wage because we know what were getting into have perhaps forgotten a few things...i get paid the same amount as someone with no experience. We've all had that server or just a bad one. There is a significant amount of skill involved in serving and I am very good at my job. I can and have done every job in a restaurant...from bartender to chef to even an owner but serving is what is best for me. I can tell you how your food is prepared, advise on allergies or dietary needs, make almost any drink you can think of, explain vintages and pair wines to your meal. I've hat to clean messes in bathrooms and scrape gum from under tables. I remember regular customers orders and what like and and don't want...no onions or 3 limes with their diet coke even when they don't remember. I deal with rude or drunk or highly demanding customers with a smile on my face and make a snappy comment or some humour to change a customers mood and give them a laugh. I've done this thru the most horrifying of personal problems...like the death of 2 spouses and no one is the wiser. I treat everyone equally...the Hollywood superstar and the crazy cat lady get the same service from me. I've been doing this for over 30 years would you expect to be paid below the standard minimum wage 30 years into your career? That's how communism works everyone gets paid the same regardless of skill or talent or experience. Tipping gives you the ability to recognize and "reward" the person serving you for their abilities and hard work. So absolutely if you get bad service your tip should reflect that as does good or excellent service. I have tipped 1 penny but only once and it was a statement. The standard for good service is 15% and really....on the after tax amount. 18 to 20 % for very good and higher for excellent service. A reminder 95% of servers tip out....mandatory so if you tip nothing on a $100 bill I pay that amount out of my $12.70 an hour. Tip outs range from 2%-6% depending on several factors. Where I work that solely goes to the kitchen (but I know the owners are skimming a minimum of half of that) to subsidize kitchen labour costs...but that's another discussion. I pay out 4% just for the cook and the dishwasher to do their job. They are paid well dishwashers start at $17 plus tips and a free meal. All other positions that you would normally tip out for which is why it can 6% i do myself. So I am the server first...then hostess, bartender, barista, busser, take out order taker, cleaner and handle managerial duties as well as train inexperienced workers. Yes I occasionally forget something or mess up an order but unlike other jobs when they mess up they don't have their mistakes deducted from their wages. That 4% Is on my after tax sales...so if I work an average lunch a 4 hour shift....not all serving there's cleaning etc...involved and I sell $400 and average 10% in tips because all the cheap people out there came in I have to tip out $16. That leaves me with $24 or an extra $6 per hour. So I make $18.70 an hour and the dishwasher who gets an extra $2 Tip out on top of their $17 Is making $19 plus a free meal. There is no need to have experience don't have to speak the language can be as miserable as they want to be. They don't have to worry about allergic reactions or over serving liquor or dealing with an unhappy customer because the cook sent out the wrong order for delivery. Cooks and back of house staff get their wages and tips regardless of their job performance but servers can directly suffer in the pocketbook despite their job performance if you choose to tip poorly or not at all despite getting good service. I've had meals in many countries and by far the worst service I've gotten is places where the wage is higher, the prices higher and the gratuity included and mandatory. There is no incentive to give good service. 

CellGirl
Model Citizen / Citoyen Modèle

@kav2001c  sounds cool--will need to check it out Robot LOL

Anonymous
Not applicable

@kav2001c wrote:

@Anonymous 

Cat LOL going wrong?

Like robots mess up my order?

 

Never seen a human waitress do that?


 @kav2001c 

Or human waiter. Gotta remember that gender equity thing.

Y'gotta see that episode. It opens with a whole first act without dialogue in an automated sushi joint.

@Anonymous 

Cat LOL going wrong?

Like robots mess up my order?

 

Never seen a human waitress do that?

Anonymous
Not applicable

 @kav2001c 

There was a great episode of the X-Files that was all about tech going wrong and ominous. It was in the last season of the rebooted version. Episode 215.

Tipping someone to walk you to a table, take an order or deliver food is just jokes

IF you tip you tip because someone gave you good service

 

I just found the coolest restaurant in Toronto area (open over a year so yes late)

Showing just how simple the average waitresses job is, they have replaced them with ROBOTS Robot surprised

 

Yup

You meet a Robo Hostess who takes you to your table Robot Happy

You place your order with a Robo Waitress (plus bonus of interactive menu, pictures, etc on the screen) Robot Very Happy

And then your food gets delivered to your table via a Robo Waitress (only funny thing is they wait for a tap from you to let them know you have unloaded all your food, they stand there waiting otherwise) Robot LOL

 

Give taps not tips! Robot wink

 

http://www.robosushi.ca/

Jhimshoot
Great Neighbour / Super Voisin

Here's what I think: 

Free market is the best way to run any business. Therefore, customers should be free to tip generously or not at all (likely based on service, or on whatever value is being offered to the customer). Mandatory tips are ludicrous. Tips are a self-policing service that allows customers to "rate" their experience. If a server isn't making enough money, they should increase service or find another job. That's how a free market operates. If a facility isn't paying their staff well enough, they will end up with lower quality workers and lose customers because of it. Again, self-policing. So I'm all for discretionary tipping! And I have both tipped generously and left without tipping on various occasions.

dabr
Mayor / Maire

@ckl wrote:

I'd say I tip 98% of the time and I don't tip when service is really bad. My tips rates are the average of what the expected tip percentages are at the time. So, a while back ago, that average was about 10%, now it is 15%.

 

Why do I tip? Because I can. And I understand that the servers are making poverty wages in the most expensive city to live in... Vancouver/Metro Vancouver area. In many cases these servers are also students. Having to study and work at the same time is tough as I found out personally during my schooling years. My thinking is that these tips I give are really my charity donations. Rather than give money to some charity organization and rely on them to distribute it as they see fit (sometimes a certain percentage of that goes to administration, AKA, executive compensation), I'd rather give the money directly to people myself. As I am Canadian, I help Canadians first. Recently, in the news, it was said that 48% of Canadians are $200 away from insolvency! That is a sad and sobering state of affairs and I'm sure lucky that I'm not in that situation. I cannot fathom the stress and worry that a sudden and unexpected turn of events, such as car maintenance, could put you into a sitation where you will not be able to cover your monthly expenses.


Good points...I don't think it's just the customary tips to servers in the hospitality sector that is the issue but it seems like tipping is more and more expected at every turn (tipping creep) that maybe what is becoming frustrating.  As others here have stated, tips seem to be expected just about almost everywhere these days, ie: picking up a pizza, oil change services etc along with the traditional hotel services, hairdresser/barber, it just feels like it's expanding exponentially (a bit of a hyperbole I know), but sometimes it feels like that!

ckl
Town Hero / Héro de la Ville

I'd say I tip 98% of the time and I don't tip when service is really bad. My tips rates are the average of what the expected tip percentages are at the time. So, a while back ago, that average was about 10%, now it is 15%.

 

Why do I tip? Because I can. And I understand that the servers are making poverty wages in the most expensive city to live in... Vancouver/Metro Vancouver area. In many cases these servers are also students. Having to study and work at the same time is tough as I found out personally during my schooling years. My thinking is that these tips I give are really my charity donations. Rather than give money to some charity organization and rely on them to distribute it as they see fit (sometimes a certain percentage of that goes to administration, AKA, executive compensation), I'd rather give the money directly to people myself. As I am Canadian, I help Canadians first. Recently, in the news, it was said that 48% of Canadians are $200 away from insolvency! That is a sad and sobering state of affairs and I'm sure lucky that I'm not in that situation. I cannot fathom the stress and worry that a sudden and unexpected turn of events, such as car maintenance, could put you into a sitation where you will not be able to cover your monthly expenses.

Metal1967
Deputy Mayor / Adjoint au Maire

TIPPING...everyone is different on how much....personal preference...always reminds me of the old leper/ prostitute joke...enough said...😀

 

TheGx
Deputy Mayor / Adjoint au Maire

@Costello_P wrote:

Well said ! 

 

Mr. Pink's opinion on tipping is again a very interesting one that you can check out. Watched Reservoir Dogs recently and came upon this thread and it brought the scene right back to me.


Yeah, Reservoir Dogs and Steve Buscini are my favorites too! As for Mr Pink opinion about not doing things just because society tell you too and not being a slave of society, thank you for reminding me of his quote!

will13am
Oracle
Oracle

I go out to eat a lot, particularly in weekends.  I am a regular at many places.  Regular patronage means the service and food is good and worthy of repeat business.  Tipping is automatic and at "standard rate".  For places not frequented regularly, tipping is merit based and not automatic.  Alcohol servers get reduced tipping if at all.  There's little merit for twisting a cap off a bottle.  Product quality is not determined by the server.  Social aspects are never a consideration.  I don't go out to eat because I want to do my part in job creation. 

Costello_P
Customer Support Agent

Well said ! 

 

Mr. Pink's opinion on tipping is again a very interesting one that you can check out. Watched Reservoir Dogs recently and came upon this thread and it brought the scene right back to me.

TheGx
Deputy Mayor / Adjoint au Maire

@dabr wrote:

@TheGx  So agree with you that  no one should feel pressured whether to leave a tip or not, nor what percentage they feel comfortable leaving. However, I don't think it was necessary to include reference to 'pigs' which seems to me to be both unkind and irrelevant to the topic at hand.


@dabrJust want to explain my choosing the term 'pigs', so you and others don't misunderstand why I used that term, I used it because I felt it was necessary to properly describe what I mean.

 

There is a culture and mindset that needs to be exposed and identified for what it is, and that is pig culture - the normalization and acceptance of bullying, shaming, oppressing, victimizing, etc, whether it be by those in authority positions or not. When I use the term pig, it's not just about bad cops and bad polititians, but anyone in any position that does the same things or supports the same things.

 

To be clear, I don't include honest cops and honest politians in the same categaory as pigs, but the sad truth in this world is that the pigs have long ruined the reputation of the police and most governments a long time ago - and in this age of cell phone cameras, more and more recordings and prooving what many already knew and suspected long ago, that the police and politicians are nothing special to be worshiped or bowed down to they are just human beings like the rest of us.

 

The pig culture would have us belive in a propaganda and rhetoric that teaches us to never question authority, never question the badge - but that is just creating a cult/gang culture that they accuse others they percecute/prosecute of doing.  History is full of examples - resisdential schools, sterilizing the mentalty disabled, outlawing gambling/alchohol/weed/gays/etc, consetration camps during WW1 and WW2, death penalties, etc. Recently not much has changed as movements like 'black lives matter' and 'me too' have shown, videos of police killing people and police beating people, american presidents authorizing torture, american internet companies spying on us as Snowden exposed - I only mention the american incidents here because listing all the dictatorships such as China etc would take too long.

 

Anyways, I would like to regain confidence in the police and governments again like I had as a child growing up always cheering for the cops over the robbers in cartoons and movies, but the truth/genie is already out of the bottle - reality is not what the cartoons and comic books are, there are just as many or more of the bad cops/polititians as there are good, just like how there are just as many good people on this earth as bad.

 

I appreciate that the good  honest cops/politicians are working hard to regain the confidence of the public and try to right many of the wrongs pigs wearing their uniforms have committed, but working towards that ideal is far far away - so I have to call things as they are, pig culture exists just as honest cops/polititians exists too, I don't think it's unkind or unrealevant to say so.  If I use the word pig often, it is because the pigs have ruined the reputation of the gang they represent beyond repair for now, it only takes a few bad apples to ruin the whole batch - but that's how stereotypes are created, accurate sterotypes as well as inaccurate stereotypes.

dabr
Mayor / Maire

@TheGx  So agree with you that  no one should feel pressured whether to leave a tip or not, nor what percentage they feel comfortable leaving. However, I don't think it was necessary to include reference to 'pigs' which seems to me to be both unkind and irrelevant to the topic at hand.

TheGx
Deputy Mayor / Adjoint au Maire

I look at the issue very simply: Tips are optional, no one can call the pigs on you when you don't pay a tip, but they can call the pigs on you when you don't pay your bill.  So, to everyone I say leave what you want, plain and simple. Don't feel like leaving anything, then don't. Feel like leaving 100% or more, go ahead. But don't let others peer pressure you or bully you or shame you into doing something you don't like doing, that's the problem with the world is everyone trying to tell or shame  or bully or presure  other into doing something.

 

In China at non-tourist places, nobody accepts tips, because they don't want this culture to spread and make everything more expensive for everyone - this makes sense, because if a waiter starts accepting tips and the tipping culture spreads, that same waiter gonna have to pays tips too when they go out.

 

So, to all the people expecting tips, stop expecting what you not supposed to get. To all the people say they can't survive without tips, how is what you saying different then what the bum on the street telling me? I treat tips same as I treat bums, I feel like giving then I give - I don't feel like it then I don't give. But stop pretending that expecting a tip is anything different then expecting a donation - because tipping is donating money, nothing more nothing less.

 

To everyone that don't want to feel cheap, donate whatever you want to feel better. To everyone that believes wholeheartedly in tipping, donate whtever you want. Just don't try to make others do want you want them to or to do the same as you doing - that's going too far.

 

To everyone that don't want to tip and feel that the waiters will treat them bad if you don't tip, you better spend your money elsewhere, somewhere that appreciates your money tip or no tip - spend your money where you'll be appreciated.

 

That's why I switched to Public Mobile, I feel they appreciate my money by giving me the best value for cell service in Canada, they don't make me feel bad or cheap for not giving them more money - everyone should use their buying power to support companies that treat give better value for our dollars.

@Tiprix 

They ARE being paid right (in this province)

The issue becomes when you travel as there are other places (the US is notorious for this) where servers are paid insane low amounts (like $2-$3 per hour)

 

Here they get a low wage but it is still comparable to minimum

Even if only 1 person gives them a tip per hour they make well more than minimum wage

 

 


@Tiprix wrote:

I don't understand why tax and tips can't be included in the final price.  If servers aren't being paid right, increase the menu price so they do.  The customers would then know exactly what they are getting into.  If you want customers to give out a fair amount, just state it.  Don't stare at me akwardly if I don't give enough.  Tips are annoying, I would request a flat price for everything, and if your server really went above and beyond just tell them.  Tips are like gifts/bonuses/recognitions, how often do you receive them at your workplace?  


 

Oh and here is a real new F U for servers

I am sure this has happened to you guys before its kinda funny when people mean to tip but dont

 

The way some of the newer machines work now, the tip percentage is based on outstanding bill, not the total amount

I guess they do this since some people complain about tipping on top of tax

 

But the issue is if something is comped or if there is a promo (eg buy one get one free etc) the tip amount becomes ludicrously low

 

 

I just saw this again the other day, where on a pizza delivery order (large one) teh person who paid just quickly pressed the "15% option" and was mortified while reviewing the bill afterwards to see the machine had calculated something like a $0.46 tip amount

As near as I can see, it calculated first order (eg +$25) then gave back the free order (-$25)and tip was then based on the added delivery charge (about $4)

 

Tiprix
Model Citizen / Citoyen Modèle

I don't understand why tax and tips can't be included in the final price.  If servers aren't being paid right, increase the menu price so they do.  The customers would then know exactly what they are getting into.  If you want customers to give out a fair amount, just state it.  Don't stare at me akwardly if I don't give enough.  Tips are annoying, I would request a flat price for everything, and if your server really went above and beyond just tell them.  Tips are like gifts/bonuses/recognitions, how often do you receive them at your workplace?  

Jbanks1989
Good Citizen / Bon Citoyen

I always leave minimum 15%. Good service is 18-20%

Salmonlips
Good Citizen / Bon Citoyen

i usually tip, but sometimes on services like take out i don't feel like i should have to tip for someone doing exactly the job requirements.  i hate when they hand you the terminal and it prompts you for tips and they're watching you so you feel obligated.

 

i'm not tipping for being handed a muffin at the kiosk...

I tip.  I do so in places that staff do not make the Provincial minimum wage, as their employer fails to treat them as human beings.  Wait and bar staff, are assumed to get tips in Ontario, so many employers in both chains and mom and pop small business in the food services industry continue to offer the ‘server’ minimum wage, rather than the general minimum wage.

 

i have tipped 1¢ once, and I hope I never have to do it again.  The service was awful, the establishment was empty, the food took forever to come to the table, the food was cold, and smelled of cigarette smoke.  We sent it back, and waited again for food to be prepared.

 

I have a few places where I go on a somewhat regular basis, and those servers and wait staff provide excellent service, and rarely does the kitchen mess up.  I’m a union member, and I am a community minded customer, always looking to support local business first, and unionized businesses preferred.

 

No one should be working in a community for less than they’re worth, and no one should be refusing to tip those who are working in underpaid jobs to make a living.

CurtisD64
Great Neighbour / Super Voisin

I don't have any trouble with tipping, I don't tip for anything except a sit down meal at a non fastfood restaurant.  If the food was great and service was great - 20%. If food was OK service was OK - 10‰. If neither were any good - 0%

 

Here is the only time I struggle: food great or good service sucks. Ask to speak to the chef, hand him/her the tip and voice the displeasure about the service.  If service great or good but food sucked, ask your server if they are required to share tips.  If no, give the tip to the server but voice displeasure about the meal, if they are required to share the tip, pay the bill with 0% tip. Then as you're leaving hand the server a "personal gift" (badly veiled tip) informing in no uncertain words that it is not a tip to be shared with cooks (wink, wink, nudge, nudge...).

 

All other sectors such as fast food,  take out, taxi, oil changes, convenience stores, hair salons. etc NO TIPPING.

 

Lastly, any merchant with the tipping function turned on with the debit machine  that is NOT a sit-down  Restaurant will definitely hear my deriding remarks about the attempt at making me feel bad if i withhold a tip. Yes I know that the attendant/clerk is not the person responsible for the feature being enabled and I'm not rude to them. I ask if the owner is present first and if so chew their ear off if not I ask them to pass on my displeasure. 

 

Yes it embarrasses the hell out of my wife or kids if they're with me because they have fallen prey to the trend of "not causing drama". I refuse to be silenced .

srlawren
Retired Oracle / Oracle Retraité

@kav2001c please feel free to send me tips for good [PM community] service via interac e-transfer  Robot LOL Robot LOL


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Anonymous
Not applicable

I hate being obliged to tip as well. Give a little extra to whoever helps you while they're doing their job. Ridiculous. Then I really hate it when the actual business owner is doing the serving.

Then how much? A waiter? A bellman? A haircut? The person in the department store? (do they still have those 🙂 )

Where else? The cashier because they rang you through and took your money?

It's all ridiculous.

Go into the job expecting to make your wage. A whole other discussion could be on that alone. There are gazillions of jobs that serve people that don't "require" a tip.

 

Can't stand it.

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