Thinking of getting PM - in welland

[Bleedlikeink]

Hi. I'm currently with freedom Mobile. It's crap and I'm looking for a new carrier.

I'l be moving to welland for a year and back to Toronto after that. I'm just curious if anyone has anything to share regarding coverage in both niagara/welland and toronto.

Does anyone have any tips for starting up any pros and cons of going with pm?

I've read some stuff on these boards but it would be great to get fresh takes.... thanks 

[stonechucker]

@andrew1231, I’m sorry you’ve experienced issues with your service, but why would you rely on only one method of communication?  Not knowing exactly what the issue is, if you have access to data, cellular or WiFi, you can use an app such as Fongo to make Canada wide calls at no additional cost.

As a bonus, it can work as a backup to your voicemail if you wish.

[jp2]

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@andrew1231 wrote:

Based on my experience today... I would have to advise ,  even considering giving this company business to keep on looking. 

This morning,  almost exactly 12 hours ago I attempted to make a local call.  Only to get a message something to the effect 'hi,  public mobile here... Your plan doesn't include voice calls...' 

This is still not resolved... I have wasted at least an hour,  simply attempting to get this situation ... It still . 

Background. I switched to pm last autumn... I am on a 3 month plan, for which my cc is being automatically billed.  I just checked and the most recent payment of $152.55 was received by them on the 20th of March. My plan (which I logged in to verify ) includes unlimited province wide calling. I have made absolutely zero changes,  ever. 

Now this is my only phone.  I have had zero ability to make calls all day. 

I did receive a fairly prompt reply to my initial message this morning requesting further personal details (which I immediately provided) .  Nothing.  Phone still doesn't work. 

I have had a mobile phone for decades ,  I simply don't recall anything even remotely as ridiculous ever happening. 

I will absolutely be switching to a legitimate phone provider  

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I would give them some more time. Using private messaging to mods is usually very helpful and they can resolve the issues for you. My personal experience has been very good with the mods.

[andrew1231]

Based on my experience today... I would have to advise ,  even considering giving this company business to keep on looking. 

This morning,  almost exactly 12 hours ago I attempted to make a local call.  Only to get a message something to the effect 'hi,  public mobile here... Your plan doesn't include voice calls...' 

This is still not resolved... I have wasted at least an hour,  simply attempting to get this situation ... It still . 

Background. I switched to pm last autumn... I am on a 3 month plan, for which my cc is being automatically billed.  I just checked and the most recent payment of $152.55 was received by them on the 20th of March. My plan (which I logged in to verify ) includes unlimited province wide calling. I have made absolutely zero changes,  ever. 

Now this is my only phone.  I have had zero ability to make calls all day. 

I did receive a fairly prompt reply to my initial message this morning requesting further personal details (which I immediately provided) .  Nothing.  Phone still doesn't work. 

I have had a mobile phone for decades ,  I simply don't recall anything even remotely as ridiculous ever happening. 

I will absolutely be switching to a legitimate phone provider  

[jp2]

Well all I know is I didn't have service and my coworker standing right beside me did.

Also before I removed my Bell sim no service when I inserted the PM sim I had service 

[sheytoon]

@jp2

Speed and coverage are identical between PM and Bell.

[jp2]

I've been with PM for 1 day. I decided to switch from Bell because of the lower costs and ability to easily change your plan to what I want instead of what they offer. 

So far

I've had issues with activation of my sim and you can't just pickup the phone for help. That's annoying but this forum isn't to bad and if you call Bell they are terrible anyways.

I see several people experiencing issues with their account commonly said to be a glitch. Which is concerning but I'm willing to put up with some small issues for the savings.

The data speed is slower than Bell but still better than I require for surfing the net.

The coverage is BETTER than Bell in my area of Alberta. (I had never looked into PM until I didn't have service with my Bell phone but my coworker beside me did on the disscount carrier PM!?!? That was that last straw for me.)

The reasons I see that you wouldn't go with PM is if you want a new expensive phone every 2 years (this will eat your savings), you don't like forums, you roam the world and don't want to change sims (this is not possible with PM), you don't want to get the rewards offered by PM, or you love getting ripped off and dealing with terrible customer service at the big 3.

If you choose to go with PM make sure you use incognito mode on chrome for activation or it doesn't work or not for me and others in the community anyways.

[Korth]

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@computergeek541wrote:

When deciding on a cellular service, numbers and features listed in the advertising can look impressive.

...

The problem with that is that they are relying almost totally on quantity to attract customers and hoping that quality isn't as much of an importance to the consumer. 

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I agree, what you say is true.

But Freedom isn't alone in that game, they all play it.  It's a cut-throat industry, only so many people with cellphones in Canada to divvy up - the operators will say or do or offer pretty much anything which promises long-term sustainable revenue with little regard to short-term costs and consequences - first priority is to get you hooked and get your money so you're not going to wander off, second priority is to actually provide the service or support you've paid for.

We've seen PM suffer (repeatedly!) from the numbers game before.  They launch some killer promo, they get overwhelmed by the response, they end up working overtime for weeks while sorting through an endless backlog of customer complaints and issues.  Not saying that they aren't prepared, just saying that their planning (or directives) are all about gaining quantity first and letting quality fix itself afterwards.

[computergeek541]

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@Korthwrote:

So no luck recruiting them for PM.  They simply aren't as impressed with PM/Koodo/Telus Data offerings as with their big/cheap Freedom data buckets (that is, 10GB "LTE speed" data, followed by Unlimited "throttled" data at 256kbps or slower ... painfully slow but still adequate for light browsing).

When deciding on a cellular service, numbers and features listed in the advertising can look impressive.  Freedom Mobile focuses on the amount of GB included for data and at the number of features and included long distance destinations (Canada and U.S. long distance).  With an attractive price, they probably have to do that because that's the only way that they can get pepole to sign up.

The problem with that is that they are relying almost totally on quantity to attract customers and hoping that quality isn't as much of an importance to the consumer.

[computergeek541]

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@kav2001cwrote:

@@computergeek541 I will argue noone can be "happy with the service" so much as they can be "happy with pricing"

Although my testing of Freedom (and Wind previously) has only been around GTA area it is utterly horrendous; even the much vaunted LTE "improved" coverage

But you can read online many people call in, complain about frequent signal loss, and get further bill credits

It's hard to argue with $30 a month for North American calling & roaming

Even if you only can use the phone for 20 hours in a 24 hour day

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I know all about Wind's/Freedom's network problems.  You might remember from HoFo that I was using Wind on and off for years since the year of the 2009 Toronto launch. They took a good 3 or 4 years before even making any significant coverage improvement in the city and even then, it was still crap.

I should have took it as a sign after getting service 2 days into their opening when calling customer service.  I just want to ask a quick question and the person on the other end couldn't year me and the call dropped while she was in the middle of sentence.

It took Wind a full month of operation to realize that customers don't want to hear a beeping sound when making an outgoing call.

I can't even recall for how long Wind's network was completely half-duplex.  It wasn't cell phone service but walkie-talkie service. And to make it worse, the other end wouldn't just cut out while you were speaking (well, you shouldn't be talking at the same time as the other person), it was also completely blank out whenever there was any background noise (sound of someone's footsteps, car driving by, sounds from the wind, breathing n the mic, bird chirping, etc.).

Wind has unpublished internal polcies to cancel anyone's service at a whim.  They would tell you that you are allowed to transfer $150 to another Wind prepaid customer.  But if you did, they you cancel the account without warning when the customer hasn't violated any condition in the terms of service.

The customer service at Wind was laughable.  If calling in to ask anythng but to just say hello or ask the most basic of questions, customer service response to everything is "back office will call you back in 3 to 5 business days" (and for the first few years, they wouldn't even do that).  Then when Wind start actively calling people back, they would just close the ticket without doing anything about the issue.

As to current day LTE coverage "improvements" (in quotes just as you did), we both know that Band 7 2600Mhz isn't going to be any improvement, and I've long supsected that Band 4 refarming has caused capacity issues for the HSPA+ network.  If anything, the LTE-so-called-"improvements" have made things worse because you can no longer properly receive phone calls. You wouldn't believe how many times I have to try to call a contact using Freedom before it even rings instead of going to straight to voicemail.

As for Public Mobile vs. Wind in Wellend relating to the original quetsion, the only things Freedom Mobile has an edge on are included plan features and pricing and phone-in customer service.  But as I said, unless Freedom has improved things over there, customer service has usually been really bad there and you have to wait their "3 to 5 business days" for anything to get done anyway.  For everything else, I would say Public Mobile smokes Freedom out of the water, with much better coverage, network reliability, speeds, and customer service (as long as you're okay with not receiving an instantaneous real-time reply).

[sheytoon]

I can confidently say Telus is not any more advanced compared to Bell. I've worked with both operators directly.

In fact, Bell has been first in some milestones like 750 Mbps and 1 Gbps.

Everyone is doing 5G testing, including Rogers.

The 3G and 4G marketing definitions are confusing, but I tend to refer to UMTS/HSPA as 3G, and LTE as 4G.

LTE-A is still LTE. It's actually CA (carrier aggregation) that allows those crazy high speeds.

A single LTE carrier (non-CA) can reach around 390 Mbps today with 4 layer MIMO and 256 QAM.

750 Mbps is the peak speed with 2 layer MIMO and 4 carriers aggregated, all using 256 QAM. Samsung S8 and S9 can achieve these speeds.

[tzliu]

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@Korthwrote:

A few of the guys at work are on Freedom.  We work (and they live) firmly inside the largish Freedom zone which covers (almost) the entire GVRD area.

I'm not advocating Freedom Mobile here, just pointing out that it apparently ain't all that bad for some people.  If they (and everyone else they talk to) are in Freedom zones.

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Adequate or bragging right keep those FM users there.  So are those who joyfully jumped onto Koodo wagon. Wondering how much 6GB will they use?

Had hoped Shaw would have expanded and improved FM network, but it was not to be.  FM has been busy engineering and re-packaging their offerings.  And people do get attracted to "inexpensive great" offerings.

[Korth]

A few of the guys at work are on Freedom.  We work (and they live) firmly inside the largish Freedom zone which covers (almost) the entire GVRD area.

They've never complained about service while in the zone.  They have complained when jobs take us out of the zone.  Or when they have to long distance a lot with other people who aren't in the zone.  But they've always qualified their complaints by saying that they get a "great deal which kinda equals everything out" and still suits them well enough.

So no luck recruiting them for PM.  They simply aren't as impressed with PM/Koodo/Telus Data offerings as with their big/cheap Freedom data buckets (that is, 10GB "LTE speed" data, followed by Unlimited "throttled" data at 256kbps or slower ... painfully slow but still adequate for light browsing).

I'm not advocating Freedom Mobile here, just pointing out that it apparently ain't all that bad for some people.  If they (and everyone else they talk to) are in Freedom zones.

[kav2001c]

@computergeek541 I will argue noone can be "happy with the service" so much as they can be "happy with pricing"

Although my testing of Freedom (and Wind previously) has only been around GTA area it is utterly horrendous; even the much vaunted LTE "improved" coverage

But you can read online many people call in, complain about frequent signal loss, and get further bill credits

It's hard to argue with $30 a month for North American calling & roaming

Even if you only can use the phone for 20 hours in a 24 hour day

[computergeek541]

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@kav2001cwrote:

Freedom has spotty coverage everywhere. Period.

It is cheap for a reason.

Any carrier will have better service anywhere in Canada.

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Yup, Freedom is easily the worst network out there.  That doesn't meat that a customer can't be happy with the service, but the chances of problems with signal, coverage, speed/capacity are higher.  The reason that people sign up with or stay with Freedom Mobile is almost entirely because of included features and price.  I doubt many Freedom Mobile customers can say with a straight face that the network is good, but rather that it might be adequate for them.

[kav2001c]

Freedom has spotty coverage everywhere. Period.

It is cheap for a reason.

Any carrier will have better service anywhere in Canada.

[Korth]

Freedom Mobile has spotty coverage in Welland/Niagara.  A fringe area - what they call "Variable (Home/Away)" - not quite entirely inside one of their coverage "zones".  Judging by their coverage map, the "zone" effective covers all of Toronto and Mississauga, some of Hamilton, and less than half of Niagara.

The advantage of Telus/Bell is not only full coverage but redundant, overlapping coverage.  I don't know how many subscribers are serviced in that area, but it looks like the towers can handoff quite a lot of simultaneous wireless traffic during peak periods, probably also sustain high performance (as measured on consumer uploads/downloads) when there's bandwidth and signal strength to spare during non-peak periods.  Compare that to Freedom just barely beginning to push the fringe of their basic service into the area.

[computergeek541]

Public Mobile, being owned by Telus, uses the combined Canadian Bell/Telus network.  Sure, any network has some problem places, but since  Bell/Telus are such established companies with vast network coverage, you're not going to have widespread coverage issues in a populated area such as the Niagara region.   That doesn't mean that you can't have coverage problems, but that you really shouldn't expect them.

In the Niagara area, you can even see from Freedom Mobiles own coverage maps, that the network really is incomplete/unfinished.  Heck, even inside the city of Toronto, Freedom's network is largely unfinished, still with large outdoor areas that have little to no signal (the Humber Bay area is a good example of that).

[Korth]

@sheytoon

Not taking anything "the wrong way" - as a lowly end user (not an industry insider) I don't have access to a lot of detailed technical specifics, so I don't mind learning/corrections on my (mis)understandings, lol.

I'd thought PM had its own US Roaming relationships - as an explanation for how/why they can offer apparently very different US Roaming options/add-ons than Telus does.

I understand Bell and Telus are very separate corporate entities which each have private ownership/registration of potentially very different hardwares.  But it's communications hardware obviously designed to have a compatible communications interface, and Bell/Telus each expands their effective coverage with "shared" access to each other's hardware where necessary.  Telus basically dominates BC/AB and the St Lawrence River, Bell basically dominates MB/ON/QC and the Maritimes, both gain access (provide proxy coverage) to the rest of Canada by sharing.

My understanding is that Telus is the "leader" in terms of always having the latest-and-greatest new hardware deployed.  They do proudly advertise themselves as "Canada's Fastest LTE Network", they once proudly advertised themselves as "Canada's Fastest 3G Network", etc.  They've traditionally always been the first carrier to offer access to newest-fastest cellular technologies (and consumer devices which can use them).  They're currently deploying 5G pilot projects.  And they own a lot of fiber/datacomm infrastructure, backbone stuff which can only make communication between their base stations and exchanges that much faster.  Bell ain't no slacker, but they certainly don't own as much of this sort of stuff as Telus does.

PM/Telus "3G" is actually 3Mbps, not 2.5Mbps?  I do understand it's not HSPA - in fact, I understand "3G" and "4G" are really used more marketing terms than technical standards - but the "4G/HSPA+" name itself comes from Telus's own (public) definition - they even have "Fast" and "Future" variants.  (They also append a footnote to clarify specifics, but nowhere do they actually say this is a 3G technology.)

I did not know that 4G/LTE is capable of 750Mbps.  I'd thought theoretical/ideal maximum for LTE is 110Mbps and for LTE-A is 225Mbps.  Again, based on Telus's own public information.  They describe their 4G in "LTE Super-fast", "LTE Advanced Ultra-fast", and "LTE Future" variants.  And I've never personally seen a device peak higher than ~85Mbps on speedtests, though I haven't methodically compared different devices, service areas, and conditions ... still, 750Mbps on today's LTE handsets sounds somewhat implausible in my experience, lol.

[sheytoon]

Sorry for hijacking and I hope you don't take this the wrong way @Korth, but I want to correct some of the points made here.

Public Mobile has no roaming relationships with any operators. It's all Telus.

Bell and Telus RAN hardware is shared, but the EPC and IMS hardware is independent.

Can you clarify what high-tech deployment you're referring to, where Telus is better than Bell?

What PM calls 3G, is actually 4G LTE with a speed-limited customer profile of 3 Mbps. It is not related to HSPA in any way.

What PM calls 4G, is still the same 4G LTE, but without any speed limits. Current peak network speeds are 750 Mbps, and you can get very close to that if you find an application that can deliver enough content that quickly to you 🙂

Any peak speeds available to Telus customers are also available to PM customers.

[Korth]

@Bleedlikeink

As you know, Public Mobile uses the Telus network.  Although it apparently has its own arrangements (outside Telus) with out-of-Canada networks because it offer different US Roaming options, etc.

Coverage is a non-issue.  This Canadian Cellular Towers Coverage Map shows tons of overlapping base towers in those areas.  Bell has the dominant presence (in Welland and Niagara), Telus not so much in Ontario/Quebec (outside of Toronto), but their hardware is all shared and basically interchangeable.  The Telus Coverage Map confirms this.

Reliability and performance are basically the same thing when it comes to digital radio (wireless/mobile data).  Telus is the leader in terms of high-tech infrastructure deployment (especially in the Vancouver and Toronto areas) but Bell isn't far behind, and again they share hardware so it's largely a meaningless distinction for the wireless consumer.

What you're left with is plans, pricing, and service.  Every mobile operator has its own special angle on the market.

Public Mobile has fairly competitive plans and pricing, no "zones", no "minutes", Talk and Text are all unlimited within their Province-wide and Canada-wide structures, Data is pretty good though better high-data deals can sometimes be found elsewhere.  What PM calls "3G" is what Telus calls "4G/HSPA+", it's 4G (capped to 2.5Mbps) - while "4G/LTE" is indeed 4G/LTE (uncapped, up to 110Mbps in theory, up to ~45Mbps in practice) but it's not Telus-exclusive 4G/LTE-A (or Telus-planned "4G/LTE-Future", or Telus-experimental "5G-Pilot").  PM Add-Ons are a little bit overpriced, in my opinion, but they are after all a 3rd-tier "value" brand, lol.

Public Mobile does not have any stores or kiosks.  They've recently branched out to Walmart, K-Mobile, and WoW Mobile Boutique - albeit the staff at these mobile stores are reported to not always be informed or helpful about PM promos, plans, and services.

What this means is you never deal with any reps, you have a fully "DIY" phone setup (which is not difficult at all and only needs to be done once anyhow).  And you don't have anywhere to go when things don't work - you have to message the mods from this PM Community forum.  This service model is actually quite ideal for some people but it's not really for everyone.  And if something breaks down then you can be without working phone service for hours or even days if you require a two-way dialog with the PM staff that spans a long session.

And of course you need to "bring your own phone".  It cannot be carrier-locked (although apparently Telus-locked and Koodo-locked phones will still work).  And it has to be compatible with Telus cellular radio frequencies/bands (specifically with at least some of: 700/850/1700/1900/2100/2600MHz on Bands 12/13/17/29, 5, 4, 2, and 7).  And, of course, it cannot have a blacklisted IMEI (registered as lost/stolen, etc).

The downside on this is no access to subsidized phone deals, not everyone is interested in such deals but those who are will not receive any attractive offers while they're with PM.

I've never had any difficulties with PM.  I always try to prepay my account balance a few days ahead of deadline (when "Public Mobile here..." text reminders are sent, lol).  I have interacted with the mods a few times, needing their intervention to correct/adjust something (usually related to a friend's account billing), but I understand that waiting a day or two for a $3 adjustment to be made is hardly the end of the world, logging into Self-Serve a little early every month and having a little patience (with a little less End Of The World Right Now) is a good path with PM, things always get sorted out in the end so the trick is just to preemptively avoid letting them get out of control in the first place.

[tzliu]

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@Bleedlikeinkwrote:

Hi. I'm currently with freedom Mobile. It's crap and I'm looking for a new carrier.

Does anyone have any tips for starting up any pros and cons of going with pm?

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Don't have any thing to suggest about coverage in Welland, other than TELUS and BELL share the same towers.

PM vs. FM - night and day.  On paper you are getting a steal with FM, in reality, you are getting second class service.  I was getting better call and data service away than from home zone.  With PM you will not regret for choosing it.  Provincal plan plus a long-distance add-on should be sufficient, unless you have the need to call people regularly cross the country. 

[sheytoon]

@Bleedlikeink, agreed with the above comments. Public Mobile (and other Telus brands) uses Bell's towers in Welland / Niagara region and the GTA. Coverage will be excellent in general.

[will13am]

@Bleedlikeink, Public Mobile which runs on the Bellus network is fine throughout the Southern Ontario region.  I live in the GTA but do travel along the QEW and out to the Niagara region from time to time.  I have never had any issues.  Don't let coverage concerns affect your decision.

[NDesai]

@Bleedlikeink I am not in Toronto area but i can pretty much assure that you will not have problems with the coverage. I haven't seen anyone complaining about no reception. Telus and Bell share towers so coverage is spread pretty much everywhere. 

As for the pros and cons, there are plenty of info you can search in this community. Here is one topic that might help you decide/understand.

If there are specific questions you have, let us know.