STIR/SHAKEN implementation today

[jkolbert]

I haven't seen any news about the STIR/SHAKEN implementation that had a deadline of today from Public Mobile. Are there any updates on this? Thanks.

https://mobilesyrup.com/2021/11/17/spam-calls-no-more-stir-shaken-implemented-by-end-of-month-crtc-c...

https://cstga.ca/

[srlawren]

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@BabakR wrote:

So this is not available for us plebs on PM?

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@BabakR I can't say for sure, but based on the info out there I would think it is not available for PM customers at this time.  I'm not sure what Telus plans to do with their PM and pre-paid Koodo customers in the mid-to-long term future.  It would seem with 3G networks being sunset in the US soon and Canadian carriers starting to refarm some of those frequencies for other uses, that at some point they may be forced to start offering VoLTE/VoWiFi for their prepaid customers, but that's just speculation.  If/when that happens, I would think SHAKEN/STIR would be available (with a compatible phone).

[BabakR]

So this is not available for us plebs on PM?

[srlawren]

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@softech wrote:

@srlawren   I don't have the fancy phone. (LoL).. is Stir/Shaken an option on the setting that can be enable/disable or is this just a function come with the phone ?

do you know if any OS upgrade/app install that can give old phones this feature?

I don't care iPhone, but will ask for the Apple addicts, is this on iPhone as well?

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@softech good questions!  I have yet to see/notice any verified calls on my Pixel 6, but: a) I get few regular calls (all my work stuff is over Teams, for example), and b) I have Call Control turned on so get next to zero spam calls actually come through to the phone.  So I'm not the best person to answer some of this.

However, from memory and some Googling, it seems that you should see a green checkmark icon and/or the words "Number Verified" on the incoming call screen if the number can be verified.  

In terms of hardware support, it seems Rogers lists Pixel 6 and 6 Pro so far and that they are working on more (https://www.rogers.com/support/mobility/stir-shaken-caller-id-identification); Virgin Plus lists LG Velvet 5G, Samsung Galaxy S20 series (S20 5G, S20+ 5G and S20 Ultra 5G) with the latest software update (https://www.virginplus.ca/en/support/stir-and-shaken.html?province=ON&geoResult=failed); Koodo simply says "At the time of launch on November 30, 2021, most phones aren’t capable of supporting STIR/SHAKEN, so they won’t display “verified” for incoming calls. These phones will continue to display calls as they normally do today. Once your phone is capable of supporting STIR/SHAKEN, validated calls will automatically be displayed on your handset as “verified.” No action will be required of you." (https://www.koodomobile.com/en/help/the-stir-shaken-feature-for-mobile-phones).  I didn't get a chance to look beyond these 3.

However, in terms of ever seeing SHAKEN/STIR at PM (or Koodo pre-paid, etc.), there is a big caveat on all the brand FAQ pages that I've seen so far, that looks like this:

• A Virgin Plus postpaid member with Voice over LTE, Video over LTE or Wi-Fi Calling services within network coverage using any device
• Only fully Internet Protocol to Internet Protocol (IP to IP) Canadian calls can be validated on STIR/SHAKEN-capable handsets. Currently, most calls aren’t fully IP to IP, so they’ll continue to be displayed as normal calls.

In other words, the call needs to be originating over data and make it to your device over data--so VoLTE or Voice over WiFi, neither of which is available to pre-paid subscribers.

[softech]

@srlawren   I don't have the fancy phone. (LoL).. is Stir/Shaken an option on the setting that can be enable/disable or is this just a function come with the phone ?

do you know if any OS upgrade/app install that can give old phones this feature?

I don't care iPhone, but will ask for the Apple addicts, is this on iPhone as well?

[srlawren]

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@softech wrote:

What make it more interesting is it said most devices are not capable of supporting STIR/SHAKEN.. then which devices do?

@softech Pixel 6/6 Pro do, and I think the newer Samsung devices that are on OneUI 4.0 (Android 12) do as well.  I'm not sure beyond that.

[srlawren]

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@Yummy wrote:

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@jkolbert wrote:

I haven't seen any news about the STIR/SHAKEN implementation that had a deadline of today from Public Mobile. Are there any updates on this? Thanks.

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Better name for that technology would be 'pipe dream'.

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@Yummy @jkolbert I'm going to start sounding like a broken record here soon but you can have this utopia today by switching to a post-paid plan on PM's sister brand Koodo or parent brand Telus.  Call Control really works.

https://productioncommunity.publicmobile.ca/t5/Using-Your-Service/Getting-several-nuisance-calls-a-d...

https://productioncommunity.publicmobile.ca/t5/Using-Your-Service/Getting-several-nuisance-calls-a-d...

[softech]

@BabakR   I guess this explains a bit more (but may raise more questions after):

https://conseils.telus.com/en/bc/support/article/stir-shaken-mobile-devices-explained

and unfortunately, this line is not what people wants to know:

Important: STIR/SHAKEN does not block calls.

and some points:

What calls are eligible for STIR/SHAKEN verification?

Only fully Internet Protocol to Internet Protocol (IP to IP) Canadian calls can be validated on STIR/SHAKEN capable handsets. Currently, most calls are not fully IP to IP and, therefore, will continue to display as normal calls.

Does my mobile device support the STIR/SHAKEN feature?

At the time of launch on November 30, 2021, most devices are not capable of supporting STIR/SHAKEN and, therefore, will not display “verified” for incoming calls. These devices will continue to display calls as they normally do today.

Once your device is capable of supporting STIR/SHAKEN, then validated calls will automatically display on your handset as “verified”. No action will be required of you.

What make it more interesting is it said most devices are not capable of supporting STIR/SHAKEN.. then which devices do?

[Yummy]

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@jkolbert wrote:

I haven't seen any news about the STIR/SHAKEN implementation that had a deadline of today from Public Mobile. Are there any updates on this? Thanks.

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Better name for that technology would be 'pipe dream'.

Even last Bond movie was meh.

[BabakR]

I'm also interested to know about specifics re implementation of the new protocols and measures which were supposed to be already done. I was looking forward to having none or at least fewer scam and spam calls but it doesn't seem to be in the cards, yet.

Just in the past few days I've received calls from spoofed numbers and one left an automated recording which proves it was a scam call. For those interested, it was the type where you are told that large transactions have taken place on your card and that it is supposedly the credit card itself that is calling you:

https://www.greedyrates.ca/blog/rcmp-warns-of-new-credit-card-scam/

Is there someone at Telus or PM that I can bring this to their attention?

The numbers were: 1-888-696-1081 and 613-912-3161

[eneusta1]

I've been trying to follow the spec for how STIR/SHAKEN is to be implemented. 

Nothing about the spec suggests that it is device-specific. I believe that to be a red herring, misdirection and misinformation from those that do not want to 'do the work' to implement.

Lets stay true to the INTENT behind this CRTC ruling and that it was intended to eliminate robo and spam callers.

I am not willing to pony up additional cash for something the TSPs are legally obligated to protect us from.

Implementation was to delayed once to Nov 30th. We should be filing complaints for EACH occurence of spam or robo call.  I am now pivoting as to how and to whom I should direct my compliants (for each call). to my provider, PM or to the CRTC ?

[softech]

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@jkolbert wrote:

I don't think STIR/SHAKEN is an "option" for carriers to implement and I definitely don't think they can charge for that service.

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@jkolbert  according to the article from Globalnews (link above), there is nothing stop carriers from charging.  I guess the idea is that  it is not an optional service.  Telecom has to implement that, but they can also charge back the customers

[jkolbert]

I don't think STIR/SHAKEN is an "option" for carriers to implement and I definitely don't think they can charge for that service.

What kind of phone are you using 56alpha?

[56alpha]

it does mention devices as well as networks which is what got me thinking that my phone is a  possible cause of the sudden and drastic change over the last 3 days. But I could easily be wrong, just spit balling as I really know very little about these things.

normally I would not care or pay 1 or 2 bucks a month, but if 20 spam calls a day continues I would absolutely pay that and more, or switch to a provider with call control which seems to work pretty well

[softech]

@56alpha from the link you provided about device compatibility, seems like it is more for landline:

STIR/SHAKEN also won’t work with older telephone networks, such as ones that use copper wires instead of fiber optics.

However, I am interested that this article mentions about  telecom can charge customers for the service.  Since PM is prepaid and they don't have monthly add-on like this.. I wonder does that mean PM customers won't benefit from STIR/SHAKEN .

(and would I pay $1 or $2 to cut down these spam calls?  NO..  I just don't answer calls I don't know.. they don't bother me that much)

[56alpha]

Ive seen the same info from the CRTC in a few news articles about some networks and some devices not being compatible.. which I also thought was odd as like you say, back end..

maybe I am misinterpreting things, here's an example

"CRTC notes that some calls will not be verifiable due to one’s device and network compatibility, as well as calls that are not made entirely over the internet"

https://globalnews.ca/news/8418433/reality-check-crtc-stir-shaken-spam-calls-tech/

[softech]

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@56alpha wrote:

thanks for the reply. Im getting spoofed calls with numbers similar to my own. I have voicemail turned off and I don't answer so I am not sure about the content.

The interesting thing is I was getting none. Since Dec 1 I have had about 60.

I read somewhere some devices wouldn't be compatible with stir/shaken. Im thinking mine is not and Im part of a much smaller pool of numbers that these calls are going to now as result.. just a theory, my phone is pretty bare bones

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I did get some Caller Spoofing myself before Dec 1.. not a lot. .I don't get any last 3 days.. but I don't get a lot anyway. .so, I wouldn't say if it is a real difference because of STIR/SHAKEN implementation.

Curious, where you see about the phone compatible thing with Stir/shaken?  i thought it is something on the backend and it will block it there without reaching our phones , hence phone compatibility not the issue.

[56alpha]

thanks for the reply. Im getting spoofed calls with numbers similar to my own. I have voicemail turned off and I don't answer so I am not sure about the content.

The interesting thing is I was getting none. Since Dec 1 I have had about 60.

I read somewhere some devices wouldn't be compatible with stir/shaken. Im thinking mine is not and Im part of a much smaller pool of numbers that these calls are going to now as result.. just a theory, my phone is pretty bare bones

[softech]

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@56alpha wrote:

I was wondering the same.

Is it possible some providers are implementing it, which is freeing up the robocaller's to call those that do not have this protection? Since November 30th I have gone from zero spam calls to 20 a day. I've had to set my phone to block anyone that is not a contact, blocking individually is not practical since they spoof a different number each time. The risk I now run of blocking a legit call from someone that is not a contact is well worth it at this point. My next move is to switch to a provider that offers call control because this is out of hand

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I think all providers have to implement that.. at least PM is part of Telus , Telus has it  and so should we.

But what kind of calls you are getting? still those Caller ID Spoofing ?   those spam sales calls,  like duct cleaning , showing a valid business number (or valid 1-800 number ) won't got eliminated by this STIR/SHAKEN Implementation.

[56alpha]

I was wondering the same.

Is it possible some providers are implementing it, which is freeing up the robocaller's to call those that do not have this protection? Since November 30th I have gone from zero spam calls to 20 a day. I've had to set my phone to block anyone that is not a contact, blocking individually is not practical since they spoof a different number each time. The risk I now run of blocking a legit call from someone that is not a contact is well worth it at this point. My next move is to switch to a provider that offers call control because this is out of hand

[srlawren]

@jkolbertif these calls are particularly botheresome, you may want to consider switching to a post-paid plan at PM's sister brand Koodo, where you can take advantage of Call Control feature.  I described it recently, please see here https://productioncommunity.publicmobile.ca/t5/Using-Your-Service/Getting-several-nuisance-calls-a-d...and read down from there (I post a sample call log screen shot and provide more details in subsequent replies).

[Anonymous]

@jkolbert 

Spam calls just ignore and delete and blocking...and never call back to number you don't know..

[will13am]

I try to keep my enthusiasm on this kind of stuff muted.  It is a game of whack a mole.  

[jkolbert]

Yeah exactly! That's why I'm hopeful. This past month I got so many and I'm just looking forward for it to be over.

[softech]

I don't think I see any update from any provider in terms of the STIR/SHAKEN implementation, not Rogers, not Bell, not Telus

The deadline was originally Sept 30, 2020, then got extended to Jun 30 as requested by Rogers, then got further pushed to today.     I can't find any more news other than CRTC made it clear that no carrier will be exempted from the Implementation date.  

So, have to assume this is the final deadline and carriers did do something.  For us, let's see if we have less of these "caller id spoofing" today.. Good Luck to all of us!!

[treefrog]

@jkolbert 

None that I have heard of as of yet. Maybe Telus will make an announcement that will include it's flanker brands.