Loyalty maybe isn't that high on PM's list. - My experience with ongoing service issue

[Amygrahamloves]

Since I signed up with Public Mobile I've had reception/ extremely low volume/ cut out issues when on a phone call. I figured it was my iPhone because it was an older model and I had dropped it many times, the screen was cracked and the speaker must be damaged, which is what's causing my ongoing problem. It must be a hardware issue. I'm on long term medical leave for PTSD and receive some help from the government. But the amount I receive per month isn't enough to cover life. I switched to Public Mobile because of their amazing build your plans that I could afford, how loyalty was a high priority to the company, and that they advertised "Canada's largest mobile network - we've got your back from coast to coast." I entered my address into the coverage map and it showed I would be covered. I signed up that day!  In 4 months, I saved what money I could and sold a ton of stuff on Kijiji so I could purchase a brand new iPhone XS MAX. I placed my first call with my new phone and to my surprise the issue was still there. I couldn't believe that I went 4 months dealing with the problem because I figured it must be a hardware issue. When I found out it wasn't a hardware issue,  I contacted PM immediately and let them know the problem I was having.

The first rep I spoke with was really friendly and genuinely interested in helping me. She listened to my problem and went through the list of troubleshooting ideas to pinpoint the problem. I switched out my SIM card for a new one, reset network, tried my phone in other locations, did everything you can imagine, and the problem continued. About two weeks of messaging back and forth trying to figure out a solution, the rep informed me that tech would be calling me to resolve my problem. YAY! --- I received a call and after speaking for about 20 minutes, I was notified that my location (St. Albert) which is a smaller town of about 70 000 people, and located right outside of Edmonton, Alberta, is one of the "problem areas".

Public Mobile is aware of this issue and the cause, which is there just aren't enough TELUS towers set up for the area. So some users at certain times in certain locations could experience issues with reception/service. My issue being that I can hardly hear what the person on the line is saying, it sounds like the volume is on the lowest setting and I experience cut-outs during some phone calls. These issues happen on 70 percent of my phone calls.

I was told that I would be put on a list of people who are experiencing problems in the area and I would be notified when a new tower would be built. She told me adding another tower should resolve the issue I am experiencing. 

I wasn't happy with this resolution and messaged into to PB support expressing my frustrations with my issue and how long its been going on for, how I purchased a new phone because I thought it was hardware issue, the troubleshooting that I have tried, the conversation with the tech and I asked if there was some kind of temporary fix/bandaid until this new tower is put up and my problem can be resolved. I asked if there was something the company could offer me for the huge problem it's causing me, or an upgrade or a type of credit or compensation to "bandaid" the problem while I wait it out. I expressed how I really want to stay with Public Mobile. I did a lot of research on phone companies and narrowed it down to Public Mobile being the best company for me and my situation. I want to continue my plan with PM because I can afford to pay for this plan and love everything else about the company and the unique features it offers its customer. I was really drawn to the company's dedication and incentives to loyal customers. But I am having this ongoing problem when I'm on the phone and my services do not work properly. 

I received a message back that was short and I felt it was rude. It was from a new customer representative that I hadn't received a message from before. She said "sorry for the inconvenience, but if there are not enough towers in your area, the issue will not be fixed soon enough. Your current plan expires on October 26. I suggest you find a different provider that has coverage in your area. Let me know if you want to remove the auto-pay from your account."

I'm extremely upset with the message I received and kinda feel like PM is throwing me out. I feel like a company that I want to stay with and holds loyalty as such a high priority would want to keep my business and my loyalty. But clearly, I do not matter to Public Mobile. Instead of trying to help me deal with an issue that is their fault, but they can't fix immediately, they would prefer I discontinue services and give my business to another company. I'm wondering if that's what they told everyone on the waiting list in the troubled area. 

[Karnbot13]

Merely suggested for troubleshooting the difference between her service and her boyfriends who has those options with  Telus

[computergeek541]

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@Karnbot13 wrote:

Just to make sure we've beaten this horse to death, wouldn't Google hangouts with the hangouts dialer work as a solution to @Amygrahamloves coverage problem? I've removed the SIM from my phone and made calls with it, so I'm assuming that is over whatever WiFi network I'm connected to at the time and I've shut off WiFi to make calls, so I'm assuming that would be using my data package to make a call over LTE? Have I got how the app works correctly? I'm genuinely curious

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In addition to what @sheytoon was saying, this wouldn't help for receiving calls or receiving text messages/MMS messages.

[sheytoon]

@Karnbot13 your understanding is correct. Google Hangouts is an "over the top" (OTT) service. That means from Telus's point of view, it's all just data. The network doesn't treat it differently than any other data.

The problem with this alternative is that you need to be in good data coverage (which she is not), or have WiFi available (which won't really work well outside). It's worth a try though on data, maybe it can be acceptable on LTE.

[Karnbot13]

Just to make sure we've beaten this horse to death, wouldn't Google hangouts with the hangouts dialer work as a solution to @Amygrahamloves coverage problem? I've removed the SIM from my phone and made calls with it, so I'm assuming that is over whatever WiFi network I'm connected to at the time and I've shut off WiFi to make calls, so I'm assuming that would be using my data package to make a call over LTE? Have I got how the app works correctly? I'm genuinely curious

[srlawren]

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@sheytoon wrote:

@ShawnC13 can I get some of that popcorn please? 🍿

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@sheytoon @ShawnC13 extra butter on mine, please 

[sheytoon]

@ShawnC13 can I get some of that popcorn please? 🍿

[computergeek541]

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@samiam123 wrote:

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@computergeek541 wrote:

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@samiam123 wrote:

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No, Belus/PM LTE does not use 850Mhz because that is reserved for 3G.

2G Network GSM 850 / 900 / 1800 /1900

3G Network HSDPA 850 /900 /1900 /2100

4G Network LTE 800 / 900 / 1800 /2100 2600

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Public Mobile does not use all of those frequencies in those network types, and that list is also missing some that Public Mobile does.

Bell and Telus have been repurposing some band 2 and band 5 spectrum to be used for LTE.

In addition, parts of the network are using 700MHz frequencies for LTE. In such places, LTE coverage will be superior to UMTS/3g, assuming that the customer is being served by the same "tower".  This is before even taking into account that coverage area can shrink when a site is being overused, something that is less likely on LTE because of greater capacity efficiency.

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Just wow.  Telus and Public Mobile are one in the same.  They use EXACTLY the same frequencies.  It's the exact same network end to end.  Please stop misinforming people by posting such bad information.

Having said that, I think Public Mobile does have plans that only use 3G data.  But that is a plan limit, not hardware or radio.  Not at all what you are implying with your statement.

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Which part of my statement is incorrect? Yes, Telus owns Public Mobile and otherwise was never stated. I was only pointing out that the frequencies that you listed are not all used by Public Mobile (or Telus), nor was the list complete.  Telus also does use 850MHz band 5 for LTE.

[samiam123]

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@computergeek541 wrote:

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@samiam123 wrote:

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@sheytoon wrote:

That's a good one! LTE is a technology, not a frequency.

You can have LTE on 850 MHz, just like UMTS on 850 MHz. In fact, PM has deployed this already. There's also B12 LTE, which is slightly lower frequency than B5.

If you think UMTS B2 voice outperforms LTE B12 VoLTE at cell edge, I'd love to hear more 😂

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No, Belus/PM LTE does not use 850Mhz because that is reserved for 3G.

2G Network GSM 850 / 900 / 1800 /1900

3G Network HSDPA 850 /900 /1900 /2100

4G Network LTE 800 / 900 / 1800 /2100 2600

---

Public Mobile does not use all of those frequencies in those network types, and that list is also missing some that Public Mobile does.

Bell and Telus have been repurposing some band 2 and band 5 spectrum to be used for LTE.

In addition, parts of the network are using 700MHz frequencies for LTE. In such places, LTE coverage will be superior to UMTS/3g, assuming that the customer is being served by the same "tower".  This is before even taking into account that coverage area can shrink when a site is being overused, something that is less likely on LTE because of greater capacity efficiency.

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Just wow.  Telus and Public Mobile are one in the same.  They use EXACTLY the same frequencies.  It's the exact same network end to end.  Please stop misinforming people by posting such bad information.

Having said that, I think Public Mobile does have plans that only use 3G data.  But that is a plan limit, not hardware or radio.  Not at all what you are implying with your statement.

[sheytoon]

@computergeek541 if they were at the same frequency, they would generally both perform well in terms of capacity unless there's a special event with mass calling. Then LTE should have better capacity.

VoLTE performance at cell edge can be better because of MIMO and UL COMP as mentioned before. One last advantage for VoLTE is the wideband codecs, which help with audio quality. Though this helps more when both parties are on VoLTE.

[sheytoon]

@samiam123 I really have nothing to prove to you, but for the benefit of others, here's the correct information.

LTE B5 has been deployed for a few years on Bell and Telus. In Vancouver for example, Telus owns 12.5 MHz of paired B5 spectrum. 5 MHz is used for UMTS and 5 MHz is used for LTE.

Believe it or not, the phone doesn't switch networks by itself unless it completely loses coverage. Network engineers will configure inter-RAT thresholds which allow the phone to switch technologies before losing the signal. The network always decides when and how handovers happen.

[computergeek541]

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@samiam123 wrote:

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@sheytoon wrote:

That's a good one! LTE is a technology, not a frequency.

You can have LTE on 850 MHz, just like UMTS on 850 MHz. In fact, PM has deployed this already. There's also B12 LTE, which is slightly lower frequency than B5.

If you think UMTS B2 voice outperforms LTE B12 VoLTE at cell edge, I'd love to hear more 😂

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No, Belus/PM LTE does not use 850Mhz because that is reserved for 3G.

2G Network GSM 850 / 900 / 1800 /1900

3G Network HSDPA 850 /900 /1900 /2100

4G Network LTE 800 / 900 / 1800 /2100 2600

---

Public Mobile does not use all of those frequencies in those network types, and that list is also missing some that Public Mobile does.

Bell and Telus have been repurposing some band 2 and band 5 spectrum to be used for LTE.

In addition, parts of the network are using 700MHz frequencies for LTE. In such places, LTE coverage will be superior to UMTS/3g, assuming that the customer is being served by the same "tower".  This is before even taking into account that coverage area can shrink when a site is being overused, something that is less likely on LTE because of greater capacity efficiency.

[samiam123]

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@sheytoon wrote:

That's a good one! LTE is a technology, not a frequency.

You can have LTE on 850 MHz, just like UMTS on 850 MHz. In fact, PM has deployed this already. There's also B12 LTE, which is slightly lower frequency than B5.

If you think UMTS B2 voice outperforms LTE B12 VoLTE at cell edge, I'd love to hear more 😂

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No, Belus/PM LTE does not use 850Mhz because that is reserved for 3G.

2G Network GSM 850 / 900 / 1800 /1900

3G Network HSDPA 850 /900 /1900 /2100

4G Network LTE 800 / 900 / 1800 /2100 2600

In a poor signal situation, a phone will typically switch from 4G LTE to 3G or 2G.  So if they have bad signal to begin with I doubt they can even get 4G consistently.  The whole point of 4G is higher data throughput and that is only mathematically possible at higher frequencies.  So phones always try use the higher frequencies first.

[darlicious]

@Amygrahamloves  Have your eyes glazed over yet? Do you have sudden urge to yawn? Not quite sure how your post turned into a tech talk debate but hopefully @sheytoon has enlightened you before all the blah blah blah for the non techies. Feel free to reach out anytime you need some answers. You are always welcome on the community.

[computergeek541]

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@sheytoon wrote:

That's a good one! LTE is a technology, not a frequency.

You can have LTE on 850 MHz, just like UMTS on 850 MHz. In fact, PM has deployed this already. There's also B12 LTE, which is slightly lower frequency than B5.

If you think UMTS B2 voice outperforms LTE B12 VoLTE at cell edge, I'd love to hear more 😂

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@sheytoon - I know that you know more about this than I do, but is it fair to say that all things being equal, LTE is superior to UMTS voice (if they were both at the same frequency)because fo the increased capacity? That increased capacity in theory would reduce instances of cell breathing and actually provide a larger coverage area because of the network not being saturated, wouldn't it?  Then again, as you've mentioned, there is LTE spectrum in use that is in and around 700MHz which would have better indoor signal penetration than anything that Public Mobile's UMTS can do. It would stand to reason that VoLTE would be of great benefit to Public Mobile customers if it was introduced. 

[NDesai]

Is it possible Telus is prioritizing their customers and putting PM customers in the line to share the same tower that is located far away?

[ShawnC13]

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@samiam123 wrote:

LTE uses higher frequencies which requires better line of sight and does not penetrate buildings as well.  Someone claiming that LTE will provide better signal than 3G in a poor signal situation has no idea what they are talking about.

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*Grabbing popcorn*

[srlawren]

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@samiam123 wrote:

LTE uses higher frequencies which requires better line of sight and does not penetrate buildings as well.  Someone claiming that LTE will provide better signal than 3G in a poor signal situation has no idea what they are talking about.

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@samiam123 if you're going to pick a fight over mobile technology knowledge with @sheytoon, I'd suggest you do your homework!  He or she is probably the most knowledgeable person in this community (top 3 or 4 if not THE) and has worked for years in the field.  Good luck.

[sheytoon]

@88cranston at the top, click on Topic Options, then Unsubscribe.

[sheytoon]

That's a good one! LTE is a technology, not a frequency.

You can have LTE on 850 MHz, just like UMTS on 850 MHz. In fact, PM has deployed this already. There's also B12 LTE, which is slightly lower frequency than B5.

If you think UMTS B2 voice outperforms LTE B12 VoLTE at cell edge, I'd love to hear more 😂

[samiam123]

LTE uses higher frequencies which requires better line of sight and does not penetrate buildings as well.  Someone claiming that LTE will provide better signal than 3G in a poor signal situation has no idea what they are talking about.

[88cranston]

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@sheytoon wrote:

@samiam123 what are you basing your comments on?

VoLTE can take advantage of MIMO and UL COMP for better performance at cell edge.

There's also more capacity on LTE, and VoLTE has the highest priority on the LTE network.

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How do I unsubscribe from this string?

[sheytoon]

@samiam123 what are you basing your comments on?

VoLTE can take advantage of MIMO and UL COMP for better performance at cell edge.

There's also more capacity on LTE, and VoLTE has the highest priority on the LTE network.

[GinYVR]

@samiam123Public Mobile uses 3G Band 2 and 5 for voice calling. Since new network build up mainly focuses on LTE now, using VoLTE should get your better coverage, especially at edges of network where coverage is spotty.

[samiam123]

I would forget about the VoLTE thing.  If you have poor call quality you are probably going to have poor or even worse VoLTE quality.

Your only immediate option is to try switch to Rogers.  Bell/Telus/Koodo/PublicMobile all share the same Towers/network.  So switching to one of those is definitely not going to change anything.

[sheytoon · Accepted solution]

That intersection in St. Albert has very poor coverage. You're in between 2 sectors that are far away and it's going to be bad for signal quality.

Downtown is another story. I don't know what's going on there.

VoLTE can help, but it's hard to quantify how much improvement you could expect.

The reason I wanted you to test your boyfriend's SIM with LTE voice disabled (i.e VoLTE disabled), is that it will replicate PM's scenario by disabling VoLTE. Then you would be using 3G voice calling on his account and I'm assuming you'd see the same problems as PM SIM. If that's the case, then your options are to move to Koodo/Telus/Bell/Virgin and use VoLTE, or switch to Rogers/Fido. Rogers has a site that is a bit closer to you, but the height is lower.

Do you have a friend with Rogers or Fido to try their SIM and see how it behaves?

Freedom is out of the question. They have no sites there.

[darlicious]

Spoiler

Spoiler

@Amygrahamloves  Glad you were able to share your calling issues with someone who knows what they are talking about and can shed some real light on the service issues in and around edmonton and st. Albert. I hope this will help you make an informed decision rather than relying on the opinion of a person typing on a keyboard  2500 km away. Thank you @sheytoon for lending your highly skilled brain to do a little troubleshooting for one of our new members to the community.

[Amygrahamloves]

@sheytoon 

I can test my boyfriend's TELUS SIM in my phone. What's the reason for disabling the LTE for voice calls during the test? And call quality should be identical to my PM network? 

PIM SIM: The problem occurs in both incoming and outgoing calls. It happens a lot with toll-free numbers or when I'm on a call with a business. I do notice it occurs with cell phones, the ones that call frequently are TELUS, Virgin, Bell and Rogers cells. The majority of the issues are in St. Albert close to the Intersection is Portman Place and Parkwood Drive. It doesn't matter whether I'm inside, in the basement or outside, I experience problems with the network. I've experienced issues downtown Edmonton near 104 street and 102 ave. 

I would say those are two locations where I can remember having issues frequently.

So if PM were to upgrade to VoLTE then my problem would disappear? Do you know if the company has any plans of upgrading? 

Thank you so much for all your help, I feel like I know so much more than I did before reading this!

[sheytoon]

Hi @Amygrahamloves,

I have a couple of questions and suggestions to narrow it down.

Can you test your boyfriend's Telus SIM in your phone, but make sure you disable LTE for voice calls. Choose data only or off:

https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT203124

Then make some voice calls. You should see the network indicator showing 3G during your call (turn off WiFi if you can't see it). In this state, the Telus SIM and Public Mobile SIM are using the exact same network. Call quality should be identical. Make sure you do enough tests to be confident you can reproduce the problem. Restore the settings when your testing is complete.

Regarding your PM SIM: is this happening on incoming and outgoing calls, to different phone numbers (landlines, Telus cell, Bell cell, Rogers cell)? Is this happening in certain locations only in St. Albert or also in Edmonton? Can you share your nearest intersection so I can look up the cell sites in your area?

There's no 5G in Canada at this time. Telus uses 3G or 4G (VoLTE) for voice calls on certain phones like iPhone. PM uses 3G only, regardless of the phone.

[mimmo]

@darlicious  maybe edit your post with the link, merging /moving might chnage the order of the replies.

[darlicious]

@mimmo  @Amygrahamloves  originally responded to an older post of mine Re:Phone call quality perhaps you would like to merge her posts from that thread into the new one she started to properly address her issue. Just a thought...might give @sheytoon  some more insight if he's around to respond.