Getting Started with a Upgrade ;-)

[dougc]

Sooo I purchased a factory fresh   'Moto G Fast '  to upgrade up from my 5 yr olde fliphone.    Woo-Hoo !!

The flip' has been operating on a PM account/SIM since 08-2018 with a ported over phone number from SO'.     (also always saved my contacts on the SIM vs the phone memory).

Sharing this 'scenario' and following thoughts/questions,    in case other(s) have had similiar experiences and acquired solutions to share.     Why reinvent or do the trial/error thing,  when  answer(s) may already  be out there  !    🙂

I acquired a new SIM  from L'Drugs  tonight,  thinking that it maybe too  iffy  to 'trim' down the 2018 PM SIM down to Nano.       

False  thought ? 

The staffer at L'Drugs implied that the 2020 version of SIM,  "would be faster than the old one".  

Am I allowed to port (?)  my existing PM account and phone number to the new  SIM  trimmed down to Nano  ?  

Looking at https://activate.publicmobile.ca/   seems to be just for brand new activations/accounts.  

Is my scenario,  a 'Moderator ticket' request ? 

If I use the 2020  (PM) SIM  (Nano trimmed out),  the only inconvenience is to manually input (thankfully only) 23 contacts  which I have to remember to copy over to the flip' memory,   just  in case loss of PM account/number on the Regular SIM,   no longer allows access to info saved on the SIM.   

Thanks for your time !

dougc

p.s. long-winded post, hope this gets past *poof" the magic dragon.  Should since the only link is a PM site url !

[dougc]

Motorola G-Fast  is compatible !!  😎

Soooo, my  circa 2018 PM SIM > Nano  did pop out as I was told it should,   by previous community member(s)  posts.  

Only issue I had was when i was trying to slide SIM/SD tray back into the phone body the SIM would slightly pop up and would not slide in properly fitted.  Obviously the clearance tolerances are really tight and tray had to slide in perfectly parallel to entry edges,  . . . so that process took close to 10 min. to complete .   🙂

I had a immediate phone connection thru  Public Mobile !  And even the voicemail was properly initiated with PM (Sask) ph number presumably acquired off SIM .

It took some searching,  but finally found the instructions on how to initiate  recognition of phone "contacts" I had saved/left on the SIM  while in the retired flip'.    

Now,  tis a learning curve of this different operating system 'Android' and Chrome/Google conofiguration.   

IMHO humble opinion not very intuitive,   but then I've had decades of Win' use  and halfdozen yrs of BB playbook,   so tend to compare their ease of use (due to familarity),    and why does this (or that) not as simple to find/use.  Yeeech !      LoL

Although it may not just be the personal unfamiliarity,  as I did read some reviews that recent 'chrome/google' update(s)s are more problematic,  than being positive upgrades. 

Following some of computergeek'    advice from months ago I stumbled across last week,    I initiated web access,  and  made sure "mobile data" was off (when not required) so as not to use 'data' unnecessarily !

A Yeeech (/freaky) moment; 

When I  attempted to initiate email access thru the Moto'phone.     Ok'd sync and saw all emails from that account load onto the unit.      An option I don't need/want so had to be careful about deleting them since I wasn't sure how sync'd they were.  Was able to back out of the email/ sync without seeing everything disappear from original email account server 😊  Tried email again w/o sync turned on and it still synced the Inbox off the server   Yeeeech  !  😆

Anyways   back to it !   

[CFPartDeux]

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@dougc wrote:

Okay that really  burns   😂  🤐

I finally hit  'Post'  on a reply,  and it came back with;

  "authentification failed"

And within a red banner;  

"Authentication Ticket Mismatched, failed authentication"  

And of course the attempted (long multiple @ responses) post content disappeared !     

I'm not going to bother with a rewrite other than the last line,

" Thank you all for the previous feedback ! "

---

I've had that happen to me a few times, and as was pointed out by @darlicious , it SEEMS to be because you've been typing the post for too long(although I don't know what the max. time happens to be).

I JUST had that happen a couple days ago, while typing a private message, and remembering what the issue is, I simply opened a new tab in my web browser, opened up the messaging window again, went back to the 1st tab, and copied all that I'd typed, went back to the 2nd tab & pasted into the new message, and hit "Post", and voila, problem solved! 👍

[Korth]

Two kinds of phones are marketed as "Dual-SIM".

Passive or Standby dual-SIM phones have two SIM slots. But only one can be active at any time.

Active dual-SIM phones have two SIM slots. And both can be active at any time.

Active dual-SIM phones have two IMEI numbers, one for each SIM slot. So *#06# reports two IMEIs. So google can help you identify which phones have active dual-SIMs by showing screenshots/photos of devices with two IMEIs.

Active dual-SIM phones require two sets of radio transceiver hardware. Which must either be embedded in the SoC or be implemented through add-on chips. Add-on components increase manufacturing BOM costs and part counts (and bulk on the mainboard) so it's just not done in practice. So googling the SoC datasheets/specs will usually reveal whether or not a device has active dual-SIM.

Because active dual-SIM phones require two radio transceivers they also require two FCCID certifications. So the legal paperwork appended to the end of the user manual will display two FCCID certificates. Two FCCID numbers will be printed somewhere on or in the device (often on the SIM slots themselves). And online FCC/OET lookups of either ID will always reveal the linked "companion" ID.

Passive dual-SIMs don't require extra radio hardware or extra logic hardware. They just wire another physical SIM slot onto the mainboard and make software which can use one or the other.

Just saying that it's usually possible to figure out if a device has dual-SIM and if it has active/passive dual-SIM by doing some online digging. Without needing to unbox the device.

It's easy to find takeaparts of disassembly guide photos showing one or two SIM slots. It's not hard to identify whether dual-SIMs are active or passive by examining other technical resources. It's safe to assume the manufacturers always prefer the quickest and cheapest solution, and that they don't forget to proudly advertise any costly functionality they add above the SoC baseline.

https://www.digitalcitizen.life/simple-questions-what-dual-sim-and-how-does-it-work/

https://www.quora.com/Why-does-a-dual-SIM-phone-have-two-IMEI-numbers?share=1

https://www.gadgetsnow.com/faqs/why-do-i-have-2-imei-numbers/articleshow/78939506.cms

[Anonymous]

 @dougc : dual SIM's seem a bit tricky to acquire. I was at a London Drugs when I was looking at phones and asked about a Nokia. She looks it up and declares yup dual SIM. So I ask about a return policy. So she volunteers to open the box. She pulls out the phone, inserts the SIM tool and out comes a SIM tray with a blocked out second SIM. Hmph Whatdyaknow.. I thank her for opening the box and leave.

After a summer of adventures, I now have a Samsung dual SIM from the UAE of all places bought from a shop in Richmond.

[dougc]

BTW  just in case,  this model of Motorola is NOT a hybrid dual SIM  as stated within their Moto'Corp. Canadian website  product specifications.

There was a thread posted on the Moto community forum back in June hi-liting this problem/error to the U.S. team,  who did not follow thru with corrections on the Cdn website !

This was recently uncovered and expressed on the original Moto'CommunityForum thread by a potential Canadian end user after they acquired a unit which did not perform as expected,  purchase was based on Moto' Corp. Cdn website spec. 

It seems too that PubMob's 'cousin',  Koodo  (customer service) is viewing a tainted spec listing,   and insisting that a second SIM will fit and function as seen spec'd on their database screen !   LoL

Geeez,  usually it is reviewers statements or retailer listings that I might question/doubt,  and go to manufacturers info sheets for final confirmation.   🙂

[Jb456]

@dougc  Yes I was at Costco yesterday and it was now $149.99.

$160 online 

https://www.costco.ca/moto-g-fast-unlocked-smartphone%2c-pearl-white.product.100672915.html

 

All the  Motos at Costco seem to be $50 off till Nov 30th.

[dougc]

@Jb456 

Previously;

"Same retailer, same price out west "

When i was prepping a email (earlier p.m.) to a friend who expressed interest in this unit, found the retailer online catalogue  $50 off till end of month or till stock gone.

Confirmed by phoning neighbourhood outlet same discount available "in-warehouse",    so popped over previous to closing for 30 day price quarantee  since it can be only  'honoured' if stock in bldg.    And stock numbers were already 14 units less than last week !

So this (alleged "entry level")  smart phone  for a even more palatable price point  !!

[dougc]

Okay,  most was caught with a auto-save !  thanks Jb'

@Jb456 

Same retailer,  same price  out west  😉

@Korth 

"The salesperson claiming that a new SIM card will somehow make your phone work faster might as well be saying that a new license plate will somehow make your car drive faster. "

Probably had the same thoughts  as I did, when he mentioned as a side note while processing the purchase.      Chips in whatever form factor are allegedly improved every version  . . . but as you and others have hi-lited,  noticeable speed improvements unlikely in this format  😉

!   My bad,  thinking there was any possible circuit connects still within the initial PM SIM card. 

I'm going back 5 yrs  when  researching about downsizing a "speakout sim" (which was a solid regular size sim, with no integrated subtle trim/punchout lines which I just looked at LoL --- time to toss out, eh ! )   to a smaller size depending on the phone requisite.

ref.   input  -  trimming SIM cards - into google.ca search field and a Utube video (2015?) pops up showing home scissors being used to trim a chatr sim after  cut lines were drawn !

Back then support pages stressed being careful about trimming it down to size  (thinking that  the actual 'centre' did not contain all the 'circuits' ?).   A time when templates and sharps were sold to assist the DIY techie.  As cheap as 5  probably shipping cost more ?

2017 service providers sold either preformed micro and nano sims for consumer needs.

 Obviously before manufacturers integrated pre-cut lines, making them "trimmable" just using gentle steady thumb pressure  (sometime today).   🙂      

@cavemantoronto 

" but people don't save comacts on sim any more. It wouldn't be noticed as too small of difference "

I have been, just in case I did find that my 2018 PM was easily downsized  into the smaller form factor now (Nano) requisite in probably 99% of phones. Would save time, vs manually inputting contact info into a new phone.      I've never  bothered to acquire a micro/usb cord to even try tah connect the flip' to the computer for backing up or possible os upgrades.      So don't even know if a 5-6 yr old flip would be compatible transferring contacts file to a Moto  01-2020 build.    

Probably take more time to research and attempt,  than just manually doing input.   😉

I can't believe how thin this phone is !   Better try'n order a protective case for it, I saw on amaz'.    Hopefully the (positive) reviewers are legit.   LoL

Thank  you all for   previous feedback !

[Jb456]

@dougc  sorry my bad did not specify my profile.

You have to click your badge and go to "My Profile" then scroll down under your stats and stuff.

Looks like this.

 

Then you click back into your message.

[dougc]

@Jb456

No joy !

Under the avatar,  just the standard 5 areas,   no 'drafts' option

Thanks.

[Jb456]

@dougc  click your badge top right and scroll all the way down near your picture area. You might see "Drafts" and your message may be there. Just click it and message will reopen then your can post. It's not always there but maybe.

[dougc]

Okay that really  burns   😂  🤐

I finally hit  'Post'  on a reply,  and it came back with;

  "authentification failed"

And within a red banner;  

"Authentication Ticket Mismatched, failed authentication"  

And of course the attempted (long multiple @ responses) post content disappeared !     

I'm not going to bother with a rewrite other than the last line,

" Thank you all for the previous feedback ! "

[Korth]

@cavemantoronto 

The SIM-to-device interface has to follow GSM standards. Including clock rates for data transfers.

The nvram blocks in SIM cards and the oscillators/buslogic in SIM slots could always be made to run faster. But the cards are built as cheap as possible, with the lowest-bin silicon which meets standard specs. While the devices use standardized parts selected for consistent compliance with standardized specs, they strictly avoid any deviations which might break compatibility.

There is nothing to gain from increasing this interface speed anyhow. Full storage capacity of a SIM card is usually on the order of up to about 64MB (maximum addressable limit without paging logic). Tiny enough that device DRAM can fully shadow it before reading and fully cache it before writing. A SIM card with impossibly fast and expensive storage performances (comparable to, say, 4xPCIe SSD or dual-channel DDR4) would have absolutely no effect on performance aside from perhaps shaving off a few dozen milliseconds each time the device boots up or shuts down. It's not a mass storage device, it's a cheaper-than-USB-stick EEPROM which only needs to infrequently pass along 32 bytes at a time.

It's something which can be tested very easily. Just compare performances, old SIM card vs new SIM card in the same phone.

The salesperson claiming that a new SIM card will somehow make your phone work faster might as well be saying that a new license plate will somehow make your car drive faster.

[cavemantoronto]

@dougc Faster? The sim has a memory part of it that could be read faster in newer generations but people don't save comacts on sim any more. It wouldn't be noticed as too small of difference.  The salesperson shouldn't make you believe a new sims is better. There's no practical difference in versions.

[Jb456]

@dougc  Also out of curiosity how much did you pay for the Moto G Fast? If you don't mind sharing?

At Costco in Montreal area they are $199.99

 

 

[Jb456]

@dougc  I just skimmed through the responses  so I apologize if I missed someone's post but I did not see any one telling you to NOT activate the new sim card.

First if you can't punch out your old sim card to a smaller size. Which basically means simply push lightly with your thumbs and push it out then you simply have to log into your account and click "Change SIM card".

Green arrow on picture below.

 

Type the new sim card number that you just bought and your account and number will be on the new sim card. Simply put the new sim in your phone, turn it on and you're good to go.

[Korth]

Standard SIM cards do not contain any processor logic or any active circuitry.

There is no way a SIM card could increase signal, performance, processing, or data speeds. There's no way a SIM card could decrease these things either, aside from being defective or malfunctional in some way which inhibits reliable operation.

Consumer SIM cards typically contain only a tiny programmed ROM (which reports the subscriber ID/IMSI stuff, security key tokens, etc) and a small amount of flash-programmable NVRAM (which can be used to store software configurations, contacts, etc).

SIM cards might contain more NVRAM storage capacity or more NVRAM storage partitions than the minimums required by GSM11.11(SIM-ME) and GSM11.14(SIM-API) specifications, and these days they usually do because it's actually cheaper to manufacture with modern high-density NVRAM than with now-obsolete low-density NVRAM. (And these days they typically embed everything onto a single cheap rewritable EEPROM wafer with the critical "unique ID" information encoded into a write-locked partition.)

SIM cards might contain NFC and/or RFID inductor/antenna "tags" (along with CTLS/SEID codecs or other secretive authorization tokens). SIM cards might contain active TPM cryptologic circuits ("black box" security chips). These aren't standard consumer features (they cost more) and they only function in hardware-compatible devices (which also cost more).

There's a few variant form factors (USIM, CSIM, RUIC/RUIM, UICC, others) which aren't intercompatible, different evolutions and different ITC regions, specifically designed so it's physically and electrically "impossible" to use them with the wrong devices. Every SIM card you buy in North America is the same form factor (albeit available in three sizes), you won't encounter any of the other variants unless you purchase them from foreign operators.

eSIMs are electrically identical to SIM cards but are physically embedded into the device (permanently soldered onto the PCB). They of course do away with all the bulk attached to SIM card plastics and SIM card slot mountings - as well as some secondary cap and resistor components, a large mess of signal traces, and the expensive gold plated electrical contact pads - the ones I've seen were 1206-scale SMT packages.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subscriber_Identity_Module#Developments

[JoyLuck]

@dougc 

It is always good to have an extra sim card around in case you lose your phone. You can quickly change sim cards in self service and pop it into another phone.

[dougc]

LoL 

I've been accused many times of overthinking things (or being too detail orientated ?) . 

I "blame" it on  the work I did  . . . . subsequently, to make sure  all  'things'  thought of either 'cause I was passing the work onto a contractor,   or 'cause working at least 3 hour out of town, was a tad far to acquire something missing and required out on site to complete .    

[Anonymous]

 @dougc 

You're over-thinking it. When you get it out of the flip you'll see how obvious it all is. Good that you kept the frame parts all this time. Pack rats...love it. Me. 🙂 Don't take apart the new one. Give that honour to whoever you give it to.

[dougc]

@gpixel 

thanks  I was wondering about that when I opened the folder they come in now,  and found no seal, you could just slide the base SIM card out from the holder !   

[JoyLuck]

---

@dougc wrote:

@JoyLuck 

When the term 'punchout' is used  that is just carefully using your smallest finger tips and gently push it out evenly ?  🙂

Should a fresh utility knife blade be carefully used along the creases first or is there a danger of metal on metal shorting,  or  damaging the connections if ya slightly spasm     (  a LoL  moment) ?

dougc

p.s.  IF anyone is curious about the Moto G FAST,   private message me and I can send you the links i already bmked  (Utube review,  also a tips'ntricks Utube, along with retailer advert' unit acquired from, a case option )

---

Just gently push them out with your fingers/thumb.

[gpixel]

@dougc sims are non refundable. I tried to return my pm sim when I was first thinking of activating with another provider. I'm glad they didn't take it back! 👍 just save it for a referral. 

[dougc]

@JoyLuck 

When the term 'punchout' is used  that is just carefully using your smallest finger tips and gently push it out evenly ?  🙂

Should a fresh utility knife blade be carefully used along the creases first or is there a danger of metal on metal shorting,  or  damaging the connections if ya slightly spasm     (  a LoL  moment) ?

dougc

p.s.  IF anyone is curious about the Moto G FAST,   private message me and I can send you the links i already bmked  (Utube review,  also a tips'ntricks Utube, along with retailer advert' unit acquired from, a case option )

[Anonymous]

 @dougc 

See that image JoyLuck put up? The SIM is really only just that gold contact area. The other parts are the frames to have the SIM held in those kinds of phones.

The middle orange one at the top (our perspective) is the only delicate part. But those three parts snap together...carefully.

Edit: good luck returning the SIM. They're usually not returnable. Keep it for a friend referral. 🙂

[JoyLuck]

---

@dougc wrote:

@Anonymous 

So I obviously have not made time to  open up the flip and compare the 2018  vs 2020 SIMs for trim/pop lines !

If say the Nano based phone has some temp' negative issues, can the Nano be popped back into the (base) regular SIM to temporarily reuse the Flip';  or are the connections severed when the Nano is popped out ?

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The connections are not severed. You can gently put back into the adapters you punched out and reuse. I have gone from nano to micro.

[computergeek541]

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@dougc wrote:

If say the Nano based phone has some temp' negative issues, can the Nano be popped back into the (base) regular SIM to temporarily reuse the Flip';  or are the connections severed when the Nano is popped out ?

The removable piece is nothing but plastic. If you're careful not to break it, it can be re-used.

[dougc]

@Anonymous 

So I obviously have not made time to  open up the flip and compare the 2018  vs 2020 SIMs for trim/pop lines !

If say,  the Nano based phone has some temp' negative issues, can the Nano be popped back into the (base) regular SIM to temporarily reuse the Flip';  or are the connections severed when the Nano is popped out ?

Anyone ever had  'occasion' to try that ? 

@computergeek541 

"You're not going to notice anything different from one version of SIM card versus another other than the color of the plastic. "

That is one thing I did have time to check and notice !   Since I retained the olde  base  card for my original PM 2018 SIM along with the account activation form from Wal'. 

Thanks for your time,  fellow PM community members !! 

p.s. to be confirmed tomorrow,  but I maybe returning the 2020 SIM back to LDrugs .    

[Anonymous · Accepted solution]

 @dougc 

SIM's don't do speed. I don't know where he got that idea from.

In your scenario, all you need to do is snap out the nano from the micro, insert it in the new phone...done.

The other questions are then irrelevant.

You can transfer contacts but the Moto might have a nice method of transferring data from an old phone.

[computergeek541]

You're not going to notice anything different from one version of SIM card versus another other than the color of the plastic.