Koodo and Public Mobile. Why is there such a great difference in quality during roadtrips?

[beirut]

So to begin: I never have problems with PublicMobile while I am in the big cities (Calgary, Montreal, Edmonton, Regina, Winnipeg). Constant 4G and awesome speeds but once we do roadtrips with my GF it all goes kinda meh. 

Recently we were doing two short Roadtrips around MB and SK.

My gf is on Koodoo and uses Iphone 7+ and iphone 6+.  I have two S7e (one on PM, while the other one is on Fido).

During our rides only my S7e on PublicMobile chokes. We had a few strips of 50-130KM there I wouldn't have any kind of service. And that's as much as over an hour of driving without a service, which is kinda bad imo, especially considering the fact that all the other phones on different providers wouldn't have a single problem.
Also it doesn't make much sense. Cause both Koodo and PM are operated by Telus.

I am using default APN settings, could this be a problem and perhaps I need to switch something?

[dbi987]

It's been a while since this thread has had a post.

Does anyone know if PM has updated access to the Extended Coverage feature? 

[Luddite]

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@MVP wrote:

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@sheytoon wrote:
Ok, now that it's public, I can share some good news. PM/Telus users have access to the Bell/MTS RAN in Manitoba now.

https://www.publicmobile.ca/en/on/coverage

By the way, I might've been wrong about NW Ontario. There may be no service at all in some areas. I haven't tested it yet.

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Could we expect  the EXT access in Ontario too,  soon?

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No. After all, Telus does want something to offer not available on PM. Just remember the beauty of prepaid allows you to jump ship anytime anywhere there is a better offer for your needs.

[MVP]

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@sheytoon wrote:
Ok, now that it's public, I can share some good news. PM/Telus users have access to the Bell/MTS RAN in Manitoba now.

https://www.publicmobile.ca/en/on/coverage

By the way, I might've been wrong about NW Ontario. There may be no service at all in some areas. I haven't tested it yet.

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Could we expect  the EXT access in Ontario too,  soon?

[beirut]

This is awesome news!

If everything works out will try going out this weekend to Clear Lake and report back how is the connection.

[sheytoon]

Ok, now that it's public, I can share some good news. PM/Telus users have access to the Bell/MTS RAN in Manitoba now.

https://www.publicmobile.ca/en/on/coverage

By the way, I might've been wrong about NW Ontario. There may be no service at all in some areas. I haven't tested it yet.

[Quest]

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@MVP wrote:

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@sheytoon wrote:
@Quest
There's no technical reason why PM users cannot roam domestically. Maybe you can suggest it as an idea in the lab.

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That would be actually a  great idea! I wonder how PM would respond to that!?

The argumentation  from the Users' side  would be that when we pay for 90-days contracts, 

we are NOT actually regular pre-paid users!

Is there anybody more skilled than me, to motivate such a proposal in the Public Lab?

Or I can do it, no probs...

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Hi, To All,

@sheytoon  and @MVP  There is no ..." technical reason"... and there is no problem to ..." motivate such e proposal in the Public Lab"... but I look at it from a little bit different angle or have a different point of view.

Let us for a while forget about PM and take a closer look at chatr. chatr as many of you have known for quite some time now is pre-paid sub-brand of Rogers. I would be very cautious here to fully compare two brands but it is a little bit like what PM is to Telus. Both represent no-frills sub brands.

Let's imagine for a while that chatr's users decided to complain to Rogers that although they are paying lower prices for their service they think it is discriminatory and unfair that their network operates only on 3G and those with data don't have access to LTE network as well.

Somehow when people join Rogers, Fido or chatr there is almost this unwritten rule or expectations what users can get out of particular sub-brand. They know what are the limits of each sub-brand, as well.

Let's go back to PM now. It has been always confusing to me how can we place PM in The Hierarchy of Telus Empire. What is our position against Koodo and Telus itself? Can we compere PM to chatr or maybe Fido or it is an open concept? Can we with our ideas through Public Lab encourage PM Staff to make PM fully on line Telus-like brand? Can we demand to give more perks to people, lower their prices and be more competitive. I don't have answers to those questions but I would loved to.

There is no doubt about it PM users would've loved to have access to extended coverage in both Manitoba, Ontario and everywhere else in whole Canada when it is available even if they are on prepaid plans. They would like to have uninterrupted and full speed LTE service. They wouldn't definitely reject some perks that Telus users can only enjoy.

The unanswered question still remains how many demands we are allowed to put on PM's Team. Are we limited chatr or limitless PM?

Maybe someone on this forum have answers.

[MVP]

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@sheytoon wrote:
@Quest
There's no technical reason why PM users cannot roam domestically. Maybe you can suggest it as an idea in the lab.

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That would be actually a  great idea! I wonder how PM would respond to that!?

The argumentation  from the Users' side  would be that when we pay for 90-days contracts, 

we are NOT actually regular pre-paid users!

Is there anybody more skilled than me, to motivate such a proposal in the Public Lab?

Or I can do it, no probs...

[sheytoon]

@Quest
There's no technical reason why PM users cannot roam domestically. Maybe you can suggest it as an idea in the lab.

@MVP
That is confidential information and part of the network design, I'm afraid.

[MVP]

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@sheytoon wrote:

Hi @Quest
Your description is good, but not entirely accurate. The government forced domestic roaming rates to be offered. Operators still have to decide if/when they want to use it.

Because they have to pay their competitors for roaming, no operator wants their users roaming unless it's for brief periods. You'll notice usage policies usually state that less than 50% of usage must be on extended/roaming networks. Extended network is exactly equal to domestic roaming.

Domestic (LTE) roaming locations are determined by Tracking Area Codes (TAC), which are essentially a collection of LTE sites in a common geographical area.

As an example, Telus will prevent all users from domestically roaming on TACs anywhere in the GTA, because they're very confident in the quality of their (Bell's) coverage. A TTC subway rider cannot roam on Freedom Mobile, even though Telus has no service in the subway.

In addition to Manitoba, some parts of North Western Ontario have poor Bell/Telus coverage and would also roam on Rogers.

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Thank you, sheytoon and quest for inferesting info, as usual! 

So, just out of curiosity, where the list of "Tracking Area Codes (TAC)"  can be obtained?

That, as far as I understood, will determine precisely where the EXT

coverage is (not ) available for Koodo vs (PM), and will put an end to this discussion?

[Quest]

Thanks  @sheytoon  for bringing, as usual, a little bit more insight and knowledge to this discussion.

In that case it means that only users on post paid plans can use extended/roaming on MTS in Manitoba and Rogers in some parts of North Western Ontario.

[sheytoon]

Hi @Quest
Your description is good, but not entirely accurate. The government forced domestic roaming rates to be offered. Operators still have to decide if/when they want to use it.

Because they have to pay their competitors for roaming, no operator wants their users roaming unless it's for brief periods. You'll notice usage policies usually state that less than 50% of usage must be on extended/roaming networks. Extended network is exactly equal to domestic roaming.

Domestic (LTE) roaming locations are determined by Tracking Area Codes (TAC), which are essentially a collection of LTE sites in a common geographical area.

As an example, Telus will prevent all users from domestically roaming on TACs anywhere in the GTA, because they're very confident in the quality of their (Bell's) coverage. A TTC subway rider cannot roam on Freedom Mobile, even though Telus has no service in the subway.

In addition to Manitoba, some parts of North Western Ontario have poor Bell/Telus coverage and would also roam on Rogers.

[Quest]

@MVP  Sure, I am going to explain what I excately meant in my post.

Extended coverage is govern by certain rules imposed by government. It is not like let say Telus have poor connection in Down Town Toronto so they decided to use extended coverage to roam on Rogers network or vice versa. Extended coverage applies only in the areas where for example Telus don't have stores or kiosks and their network is not available then with a certain limitations they can roam on MTS. Because Bell and Telus share towers they cover more than 90% of Canadian Population so they don't have to use ext so much. Rogers has strong presence in Ontario but weaker in some rural communities in Ontario and West Coast so there are many places they still have to use ext. Regular roaming is a little bit different than Extended Coverage.

Sorry if missed something here. I am not definitely an expert regarding this subject but I tried my best in nutshell to explain some aspcts of it.

[MVP]

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@Quest wrote:

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@MVP wrote:

Hmmm.. this is the first disapppointing thing I'm learning abour PM.

Practically, it is quite difficult to experince the absence of that extended coverage in ON, though.

So far, I've encountered only one  place, a stretch of the 403 freeway between Woodstock and Brantford,  where my PM coverage chockes systematically,  while Fido/Rogers is OK. In that place extended coverage is beneficial, is not it?

Sitll, one can probably raise the question of extended coverage somewhere in the Public Lab? Arguing that  PM is not really a traditional prepaid service, but rather a "hybrid", due to the length of the plans  (90 days), which look like mini-contracts?

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@MVP  Extended coverage only applies to Manitoba when you do roaming on MTS. There is no extended coverage in Ontario or anywhere else i Canada. If PM have a poor reception in this area probably Bell have, too. It could be many reasons behind that. Rogers/Fido may have stronger presence in that area. One or two extra towers can make huge difference.

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Sorry, I do not understand,  pls clarify. Are you saying that extended coverage (via Rogers) is

NOT available to Koodo/Telus/Bell etc  in Ontario?

I doubt that, I distinctly remember my bell SIM from a few years back had Bell-EXT or something like that, which meant Rogers network? Likewise, now my FIDO SIM has Fido-EXT, which probably means Bell/Telus network!?

[Quest]

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@MVP wrote:

Hmmm.. this is the first disapppointing thing I'm learning abour PM.

Practically, it is quite difficult to experince the absence of that extended coverage in ON, though.

So far, I've encountered only one  place, a stretch of the 403 freeway between Woodstock and Brantford,  where my PM coverage chockes systematically,  while Fido/Rogers is OK. In that place extended coverage is beneficial, is not it?

Sitll, one can probably raise the question of extended coverage somewhere in the Public Lab? Arguing that  PM is not really a traditional prepaid service, but rather a "hybrid", due to the length of the plans  (90 days), which look like mini-contracts?

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@MVP  Extended coverage only applies to Manitoba when you do roaming on MTS. There is no extended coverage in Ontario or anywhere else i Canada. If PM have a poor reception in this area probably Bell have, too. It could be many reasons behind that. Rogers/Fido may have stronger presence in that area. One or two extra towers can make huge difference.

[MVP]

Hmmm.. this is the first disapppointing thing I'm learning abour PM.

Practically, it is quite difficult to experince the absence of that extended coverage in ON, though.

So far, I've encountered only one  place, a stretch of the 403 freeway between Woodstock and Brantford,  where my PM coverage chockes systematically,  while Fido/Rogers is OK. In that place extended coverage is beneficial, is not it?

Sitll, one can probably raise the question of extended coverage somewhere in the Public Lab? Arguing that  PM is not really a traditional prepaid service, but rather a "hybrid", due to the lenght of the plans  (90 days), which look like mini-contracts?

[Vickel]

@Quest

Im just pointing out the fact that there are differences in the coverage between Koodo/Telus as they have the extended coverage. 

No one mentions that part, everyone just mentions that it will be the same as Koodo. If Koodo has access to extended coverage, then there is a difference.

[Quest]

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@Mana wrote:
Has someone compared telus, Koodo and PM side by side on three phones at the same time and same area?

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@Mana  I compared side by side Koodo and PM in Toronto at Eglinton & Yonge area and some parts of North York and Scarborough and almost whole Downtown Core. I did it in some places where only chatr had connection because it was switching to GSM (2G, Legacy/Edge). Where there was a dad zone for PM there was a dead zone for Koodo, as well.

I used Galaxy S3 and S4 and vice versa on LTE and 4G. I notice not significant difference at all.

[Mana]

Has someone compared telus, Koodo and PM side by side on three phones at the same time and same area?

[Quest]

@VickelService and quality is the same as on Koodo or Telus. What we are talking here about is the access to Extended Coverage. It is well known that Telus reserved access to Extended Coverage exclusively for Post Paid Users  (Koodo/Telus). It is like chatr customers has access only to 3G network even if they are on Rogers Network.

You can find this information both on Telus and Koodo websites.

[Vickel]

Some good information in this thread

Many people mention that the service would be the same as koodo or Telus.

Now we know of one difference.

[echf]

Hope after Bell purchased MTS will benefit for PM customers! Although I guess wouldn't be anytime soon.

[beirut]

Ok so a quick update.

Was making a short trip with friends to US border from Winnipeg (110km) was carrying two phones (one with Koodo sim and other one with Public Mobile).

Koodo was working perfectly fine while PM lost all the connectivity 20km outside of Winnipeg and so 90km were without any kind of connection. Looks like it's definitely a Manitoban thing.

Thanks guys for all the replies.

[ben10nnery]

Especially in MB and SK (where I live.) there are many remote areas with no coverage from any of the companies. Can't expect them to cover everywhere, especially in areas where maybe two people and a few cows live.

In all honesty, I like hitting the dead zones while on a trip. It's almost like a nice break away from electronics.

[Acekiller]

good to know about (the lack of) extended roaming coverage!

[WearySky]

@Quest right - and presumably, @beirut's girlfriend is on Koodo post-paid, which is why she had signal but beirut didn't.

[Quest]

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@WearySky wrote:

For reference, here's the coverage maps of Public Mobile vs Koodo that I screenshotted from both of their websites (most importantly, note the "extended coverage" area that Koodo shows in Manitoba):

PM: 

Koodo:

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@WearySky  Extended coverage can only be used on POST-PAID PLANS (Telus/Koodo). PM is PREPAID so cannot use EXTENDED COVERAGE. Other than that it is basically the same but more detailed and fancier map.

[WearySky]

For reference, here's the coverage maps of Public Mobile vs Koodo that I screenshotted from both of their websites (most importantly, note the "extended coverage" area that Koodo shows in Manitoba):

PM: 

Koodo:

[Quest]

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@sheytoon wrote:
Agreed that this appears to be a roaming issue with PM subscribers on MTS/Rogers network. It should mainly be happening in rural Manitoba. During your service outage on PM, your Koodo phone should show Koodo-EXT or similar to indicate you are roaming.

Native Telus coverage is identical for Koodo and PM.

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I might add, you must be on post-paid plan if you want to roam on MTS/Rogers. On the other hand it is obvious that PM is prepaid. Other than that Sheytoon and others are right ..."Telus coverage is identical to Koodo and PM"...

[sheytoon]

Agreed that this appears to be a roaming issue with PM subscribers on MTS/Rogers network. It should mainly be happening in rural Manitoba. During your service outage on PM, your Koodo phone should show Koodo-EXT or similar to indicate you are roaming.

Native Telus coverage is identical for Koodo and PM.

[echf]

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@ssuther wrote:

I just posted a related reply to Dave concerning the network upgrades - Telus, along with all major carriers in Canada, have automatic WiFi Calling on the latest phones (iPhone and many others) in areas where signal strength is an issue (including basements and in more remote communities).  For example, Fido WiFi Calling works without charge worldwide at no extra cost, but Virgin is only free in Canada and charges extra for use outside Canada - so if a call comes in on your cell number, and you have no cell signal, you still get the call as long as you've got WiFi.  Public Mobile was apparently going to get WiFi Calling when Koodo was scheduled to get it earlier this year - but from what I see now, there appears to have been delays at Telus who took much longer than Bell and Rogers to finally deploy WiFi Calling on the iPhone and Android phones.  My guess is that this will solve many of Public Mobile's Canada roaming issues when WiFi Calling is debugged and released (hopefully soon).

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That is good news! VoLTE would also be nice, which can improve the voice quality. I am not fully satisfied with the current voice quality. I have an iPhone but still seems some noise. 

The last time I heard Telus has no plan to bring VoLTE to PM.

Does Telus allow WiFi calling roaming right now?