Does Public Mobile support 2G

[dixonpete]

I'm considering a security device for my car that will need a SIM card to text me about break-ins. It only uses 2G. Will Public Mobile work? I know I'll be committing to a $15 a month Public Mobile plan to get the data I need.

[dixonpete]

Afterall this I accidentally bought a 2G GSM device. It wasn't entirely my fault. The vendor had in his ad that it would work in all countries. 

When I realized my mistake I checked with Rogers and found that their coverage will last for  the end of the year. For $10 a month I get 50 texts. That's really all I need to catch my guy. I'll have to throw away the Rogers SIM card and the GSM module but realistically I probably wouldn't be using them in the futre anyway. The point of the exercise was to catch the guy and learn the technology.

So. Not what I wanted but QED. It'll do.

[rhbcc]

yes I meant to say that sorry LOL.

PM is forever!!!

[Korth]

@srlawren @dixonpete 

I should clarify that (from what google educated me) these devices seem to commonly be called "GSM/GPRS modems" as a category even though many of them now use 3G/4G technologies and do not use old GSM/GPRS technologies. I guess it's just a retro terminology holdover, much how we still "tape" and "film" and "rewind" digital content, "dial" calls, etc.

I could be wrong. I don't personally have any experience with these devices.

[sheytoon]

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@dixonpete wrote:

A fellow named Kim Gill on Quora told me:

"Look for those that will work on T-Mobile USA. Also, TELUS has limited GSM coverage, you will want a UMTS module supporting Band IV (4), on the AWS-1 1700/2100MHz split band."

@dixonpete 

The info you got is not accurate. Telus does not use UMTS band 4, and they have never had any GSM.

See here:

https://productioncommunity.publicmobile.ca/t5/Discussions/LTE-network-fundamentals/td-p/130581/page...

https://productioncommunity.publicmobile.ca/t5/Discussions/LTE-network-fundamentals/m-p/134356#M5822...

[srlawren]

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@dixonpete wrote:

Here's one that definitely won't because of the 2G issue but is representative of the genre: 

https://www.amazon.ca/Expansion-Quad-Band-Network-Raspberry-Geekstory/dp/B079FP5287/ref=sr_1_6?keywo...

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@dixonpete correct, this is definitely NOT compatible with Telus, Bell, or any of their subbrands like Public Mobile.  This device uses GPRS, which is a 2G GSM-based data technology from many years ago.  You need to look for "UMTS", "W-CDMA" (yes, the "W-" is important), "HSDPA", "HSPA", or "HSPA+".  If you see any of those listed with 850MHz (band 5) and 1900MHz (band 2), then you are good to go.

If you see "LTE" listed, consider band 4 as required and any of 2,5,7,12,17 as bonus. 

EDIT:

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@Korth wrote:

This is the best part I could find after some quick search.

$8 - SMS, GPS, IP, dialing, etc - 850MHz/1900MHz cellular - lots of GPIO trigger/input options.

https://www.amazon.com/GPRS-Spectrum-SM5100B-Modem-Module/dp/B00RDH2BHS

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@dixonpete @Korth unfortunately, this part also appears to GPRS only.  

EDIT EDIT: unfortunately, I have zero hands-on experience with Pi and cannot give you the recommendation you are asking for.  I might suggest you start a new thread here with a title something like "Recommended Raspberry Pi module for Public Mobile?" as it may be more likely to catch the eye of anyone that does have the info you're looking for than a thread asking about 2G support, which might get glossed over.

[dixonpete]

I'm ok with letting the cops try to catch him. I think there's a good chance he'll still be there when they arrive. I had considered going to with a rope and roping him till I found out how quick the cops' response likely would be.

Here's the power supply I've ordered:

 https://www.amazon.ca/SHISHUO-Dash-Cam-Hardwire-Kit/dp/B07FD3TTVN/ref=sr_1_38?crid=FGWJ75I7TIVN&keyw...

It's got the neat feature of shutting down when the voltage gets low to save the car battery.

[Korth]

GPS locator tags can be cheap, small, easily concealed in other objects. (Although the tinest ones have lousy battery life and weak range.)

But a switch which triggers a text could also trigger other things. Like a webcam inside the vehicle. And another webcam outside the vehicle. And even the door locks or the garage lights or the building security alarm.

[dixonpete]

>It could even dial police or 911 and (silently) play a recorded audio file.

I thought about mocking my thief, or slowing him down in pretend conversation, but that would risk spooking him. I want him to just carry on breaking into the rest of the cars on the street as the police make their way to him. I call 911 after been woken by the text.

I've also considered putting those exploding snakes in the glove compartment or a rat trap, but that just diverts from the mission. I don't want him to know it was my car that tripped him up.

One idea that has value I think is putting something identifiable of moderate value in the car that I can prove as mine and prove he was breaking into those cars when he gets caught with it. If he'll take crappy sunglasses he'll probably take a calculator.

[dixonpete]

That link to the project https://mechatrofice.com/arduino/gsm-send-sms describes very well what I'm trying to achieve. Just substitute a reed switch for the push switch.

[Korth]

This is the best part I could find after some quick search.

$8 - SMS, GPS, IP, dialing, etc - 850MHz/1900MHz cellular - lots of GPIO trigger/input options.

https://www.amazon.com/GPRS-Spectrum-SM5100B-Modem-Module/dp/B00RDH2BHS

It could easily be adapted to a project like this

https://mechatrofice.com/arduino/gsm-send-sms

... or this

https://mechatrofice.com/arduino/send-gps-location-via-sms

It could even dial out (to police or 911) and (silently) play a recorded audio file.

I don't know if T-Mobile USA is relevant, but Quora Answer's other advice seems sound. I think he was trying to recommend you get what is usually called a "GSM/GPRS modem module" and to make sure it has radio compatibility with common 3G/4G bands (for best coverage).

Telus radio frequencies... 

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telus_Mobility#Radio_frequency_summary

(All Canadian carriers basically use all the same frequencies, overall. Except Telus vs Bell allocate some band usages a little differently, Freedom also supports band 66, and Rogers now supports just-launched 5G radio.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadian_mobile_phone_companies

[dixonpete]

A fellow named Kim Gill on Quora told me:

"Look for those that will work on T-Mobile USA. Also, TELUS has limited GSM coverage, you will want a UMTS module supporting Band IV (4), on the AWS-1 1700/2100MHz split band."

Ideally I'd just like a $30-$40 device that would just work when I plugged a Public Mobile SIM card into it. All I need it to do is send texts when commanded by a Pi. Compatibility is what I'm worried about and it's making this task a lot harder than I figured.

As for make/module I have no idea. I've been looking at dozens of gsm modules on Amazon. All I know for sure are the ones that won't work.

I looked on Sparkfun and searched with GSM. I didn't find any joy there.

[Korth]

It's unclear whether "GSM" is referring to 2G GSM cellular or to GSM-based SMS/MMS/GPS protocol compatibility.

If the former -

It definitely won't work on Telus/Koodo/Public, Bell/Virgin/Lucky, Sasktel. They no longer have any 2G. And the 2G stuff they had (years ago) wss all CDMA, not GSM. It might work with Rogers/Fido/Chatr/Speakout, maybe even Ice Wireless (way up north), but not likely and not everywhere and not for long.

If the latter -

It can send SMS as programmed, it needs a SIM card, active account, and phone number. It won't be able to dial/answer voice or connect to cellular data/IP. And it needs to be radio compatible for Canadian networks.

You can find some code repositories on Github and plenty of RPi support forums stuffed with details. I've seen projects in Nuts & Volts which looked pretty nifty.

What exactly is the "GSM" module? Name, model, part number, spec?

If you buy/bought from ebay or alibaba then you might be stuck with something meant for GSM compatibility in China, India, or some other region.

Sparkfun has some goodies which will work in CA/US/NA, EU/UK, AU, etc.

[dixonpete]

I've looked at dozens of them but I can't figure out for sure if they'll work or not.

Here's one that definitely won't because of the 2G issue but is representative of the genre: 

I've looked at dozens of them but I can't figure out for sure if they'll work or not.

https://www.amazon.ca/Expansion-Quad-Band-Network-Raspberry-Geekstory/dp/B079FP5287/ref=sr_1_6?keywo...

[dixonpete]

Buying one of these devices can be upwards of $40 and take a month to arrive. I'd prefer to know it'll work before buying it.

[dixonpete]

Some of the GSMs mention 3G and 4G but then there are the reports of not getting it to work with TELUS. I also know some devices work in Asia but not in North America. I'm a noob with this stuff. I just want someone to tell me that a device will work. I love Public Mobile for its simplicity and rates and would prefer to use it.

The actual commands to get a Pi to send a text with one these devices is dead simple. That's the easy part.

[gblackma]

@dixonpete  if you have access to a PM SIM card that fits in your device put it in and see if it works. 

[srlawren]

@dixonpete Telus has never operated a GSM network, nor has Bell.  That means Telus, Koodo, Public Mobile, Bell, Virgin, and Lucky users would not be able to use a GSM module with a Pi in this way.  Roger is the only Canadian operator to operate a GSM network, and as noted they are shutting it down at the end of this year.  Are there no W-CDMA/UMTS capable modules compatible with the Pi?  (I've never looked, but guessing there should be....)

EDIT: on second thought, a lot of times people use the GSM term to mean more than just a 2G GSM network.  Do you have a link to the specific module you are planning to use?  It's possible it supports HSPA (3G) and/or LTE (4G) data networks regardless of the nomenclature.

[dixonpete]

There's no question the device only supports 2G. The vendor said as much. You bring up a good point though, I should state clearly exactly what I'm looking for.

Devices like the Raspberry Pi and Arduino can't talk to cellular networks. You need what's called a GSM for that (short for Global System for Mobile Communications). A SIM card plugs into the back side of these GSM devices. The Pi or Arduino talks to the GSM to make calls or send texts.

My application is simple. I want my glove compartment to send me a text when it's opened. Some miscreant has broken into my car 6x in the last 12 months, and he always opens the glove compartment looking for change. Once I get the text I'll call the police. Response time is supposed to be within 2-3 minutes. I'll probably be using a Pi with a GSM and a reed switch as the sensor. The power supply is 5V from a dash cam power supply I found on Amazon.

The problem I've been having beyond the 2G issue that at lot of the GSMs suffer from is that I've heard reports of GSMs not working with TELUS. I'd like to hear from someone that they actually got a GSM working with TELUS/PM.

[srlawren]

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@jimbobs wrote:

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@dixonpete wrote:

I'm considering a security device for my car that will need a SIM card to text me about break-ins. It only uses 2G. 

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It seems odd that any security device being sold today would specify 2G only.  Could it be that it's an older device? Or maybe it operates at 2G speeds or something like that.  Why don't you ask the supplier what networks it will run on?

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@jimbobs this is a good point.  @dixonpete do you have a brand and model number handy for the device you are considering?  We could try to hunt down the specs and confirm one way or the other if it will work with Public Mobile.

[jimbobs]

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@dixonpete wrote:

I'm considering a security device for my car that will need a SIM card to text me about break-ins. It only uses 2G. 

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It seems odd that any security device being sold today would specify 2G only.  Could it be that it's an older device? Or maybe it operates at 2G speeds or something like that.  Why don't you ask the supplier what networks it will run on?

[Korth]

It's not only about Rogers2G sunsetting at end of 2020.

It's also extremely limited Rogers 2G coverage. So if this 2G automotive device drives anywhere else in Canada (or beyond) it won't maintain network connection.

From Wikipedia article (which cites Rogers press/source material)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogers_Wireless#GSM

Since 2002, the company's 2G GSM network with EDGE has operated in Canada. It provides compatibility for GSM-based devices, including those frequently used by international travelers. However, this technology is limited to speeds up to 236 kilobits per second, which is only about four times the speed of dial-up.

As of July 2018, some of Rogers coverage footprint is covered by its GSM network, but not its HSPA or LTE networks. These areas include MacKenzie, BC and along the Highway 11 corridor east and west of Kapuskasing, ON. It is unclear what the future is for these areas given that Rogers has already announced that it intends on shutting down its GSM network and because Rogers did not expand HSPA or LTE into these areas despite completing expansion of HSPA or LTE to all other areas by its GSM network years earlier.

Rogers has informed its customers that its 2G GSM network will be discontinued on December 31, 2020.

[srlawren]

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@rhbcc wrote:

Committing to a PM service for your device will not a be long term practical solution since this service will be phased out in the coming months.

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@rhbcc I hope you meant to say "to a GSM service", not "to a PM service".  There are no plans to phase out Public Mobile.

[rhbcc]

Committing to a PM service for your device will not a be long term practical solution since this service will be phased out in the coming months.

[srlawren · Accepted solution]

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@Luddite wrote:

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@geopublic wrote:

@dixonpete  Unfortunately PM does not support 2G. Rogers is the only one currently supporting it.

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And it will be phased out shortly. For use in Canada you need a different device.

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@dixonpete this is an important detail:  Rogers has currently scheduled to shut down their 2G GSM network on Dec 31st of this year.  Whether or not that gets delayed at this point is anyone's guess, but it will definitely not be around for the long-haul.  I would not want to invest in a system that could only operated on a 2G network at this point in time, personally.

[Luddite]

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@geopublic wrote:

@dixonpete  Unfortunately PM does not support 2G. Rogers is the only one currently supporting it.

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And it will be phased out shortly. For use in Canada you need a different device.

[geopublic]

@dixonpete  Unfortunately PM does not support 2G. Rogers is the only one currently supporting it.

[computergeek541]

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@dixonpete wrote:

I'm considering a security device for my car that will need a SIM card to text me about break-ins. It only uses 2G. Will Public Mobile work? I know I'll be committing to a $15 a month Public Mobile plan to get the data I need.

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Sorry, but it won't work. There is no 2g here.