The Elusive Question lol

[JL9]

So going back to that discrepancy when it comes to switching from the fall promo to the 4.5 GB plan that just expired.

Finally got a response from the Mods and it seems like they still don't understand the inquiry as they told me what I would receive as a reward under a 30 day plan, which I'm already aware of. I tried to make it as clear as I can previously and then followed up on their most recent response but haven't heard back for over 2 days.

Soooo I guess I have another month or so before I re-up. Might just scrap the plan as that creeps up since I don't think I'll be getting a response to the issue. 

Don't think the pros outweigh it enough to justify the change, guess we will see what comes down the pipe.

[Jorno]

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@stonechucker wrote:

The reward is credited to your account on the renewal date.  It doesn’t move to available funds, until immediately before payment.

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The second and subsequent transactions in my post were autopay renewals that occurred on my renewal date (which I referred to as 'bills').

Available Funds is the amount in the 'Balance' column of the transactions (which I referred to as 'account balance').

We are in agreement, @stonechucker - we have just used different terminology 🙂

[stonechucker]

The reward is credited to your account on the renewal date.  It doesn’t move to available funds, until immediately before payment.

[Jorno]

For reference, I have included two screenshots.  Red arrows have been added to highlight the AutoPay Reward.

The first screenshot (below) shows the transactions for my first bill (initial activation) with Public Mobile.  The reward was added immediately after my initial payment as a credit to my account balance.

The second screenshot (below) shows the transactions for my second bill with Public Mobile.  The reward was added immediately before my payment as a credit to my account balance.

Adding the debits and credits shows that no AutoPay Reward was missed for my first two bills.  The AutoPay Reward balance owed to me is zero.

All subsequent transactions show that the AutoPay Reward is added immediately before payment as a credit to the account balance.  The AutoPay Reward credit is for the plan length that was about to be paid. These transactions include a switch from a 90-day plan to a 30-day plan.

TL;DR?

For the first bill (initial activation), the AutoPay Reward is added immediately after the initial payment as a credit to the account balance.

For the second bill, the AutoPay Reward is added immediately before payment as a credit to the account balance.

After the first two bills, the AutoPay Reward balance owed to the customer is zero. Since this balance is now zero, all future AutoPay Reward credits are based on the plan length that will be paid on the following bill.

For all subsequent bills, the AutoPay Reward is added immediately before payment as a credit to the account balance.

(I reserve the right to update this post for improved accuracy and clarity :))

[NDesai]

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@ShawnC13 wrote:

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@

You can dispute i didn't get $12 on my first renewal I have only posted MY experience I guess it is a YMMV situation

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Not a YMMV situation. Every new activation with AutoPay enabled will receive a one time reward as a credit. This credit will be applied to the first renewal unless it was used to purchase an add-on. This started back in late 2015 when I joined.  I believe, other Oracles who joined before me did not get that. 

[ShawnC13]

I only got the $12 off of my first renewal after that it is 6

[ShawnC13]

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@kav2001c wrote:

@ShawnC13the contradiction is that "you would probably get $4"

It's not random

There is a method behind the madness that is Public credits

It MUST be $6 (my vote) or $12 (your vote)

No other possibility

If your first post is correct (which I dispute) there is no way you are getting $12 in credits off your first/second/any bill

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The $4i was referring to the people who you signed up on the $10 promo it is only a 30 day plan so their first renewal would have had a$4 auto pay me. 

You can dispute i didn't get $12 on my first renewal I have only posted MY experience I guess it is a YMMV situation

[kav2001c]

@ShawnC13the contradiction is that "you would probably get $4"

It's not random

There is a method behind the madness that is Public credits

It MUST be $6/$2 (my vote) or $12/$4 (your vote)

No other possibility

If your first post is correct (which I dispute) there is no way you are getting $12 in credits off your first/second/any bill on any plan

[ShawnC13]

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@kav2001c wrote:

@ShawnC13

That is pure contradiction

You can (normally) earn rewards up to plan value (so in this case $10) and if account is glitched (which happens often) you can earn rewards that exceed plan value (resulting in a credit balance that carries forward until account is fixed; my all time record is 2 years of free service under 1 account)

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@ShawnC13 wrote:

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That is great that you have activated that many accounts.  Just saying my real life experience is different than yours.  Plus there is no way the $10 promo would ever see $12 autopay on  first renewal probably $4.

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What is contradiction?  My experience vs yours?  Yes they are different.  We have obviously had different experiences with autopay Discount.  That is what I will call it as it is something that is upfront and not earned as a reward.

[kav2001c]

@ShawnC13

That is pure contradiction

You can (normally) earn rewards up to plan value (so in this case $10) and if account is glitched (which happens often) you can earn rewards that exceed plan value (resulting in a credit balance that carries forward until account is fixed; my all time record is 2 years of free service under 1 account)

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@ShawnC13 wrote:

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That is great that you have activated that many accounts.  Just saying my real life experience is different than yours.  Plus there is no way the $10 promo would ever see $12 autopay on  first renewal probably $4.

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[NDesai]

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@kav2001c wrote:

@ShawnC13no

Again this is wrong

You do NOT get $12 off your first renewal

You get $6

And following month you also get $6

Continuous so long as remain on same plan with autopay enabled

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You mentioned that you got $6 or $2

AutoPay credit in your account. So during your first renewal, where did that credit go? If you didn't use it to purchase an add-on, it should've applied to your 2nd bill. 

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@kav2001c wrote:

If I am on a 90 day plan and my friend is on a 30 day plan

Month #1 he paid, it shows estimated $3 credit (3 x $1) on my account

Month #2 he does not pay; it will INSTANTLY send me the warning txt about lower expected rewards, and will REMOVE the $3 credit

So even though he was a client for 1 month you get $0 in reward credits

Also if in Month #3 he comes back and paid, now you will get the ENTIRE $3 credit (despite his only being a paid customer for 2 months during your 90 day cycle)

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Because you are on a 90 days plan, too bad your renewal does not happen while your friend account is active. But if your renewal was just a few days away from when your friend activation, you would get the referral rewards even though it's only been a few days since he joined. So depending on when the renewal falls, it's good for some and too bad for others. 

And because he didn't pay for the 2nd bill, technically it means your friend did not stay. And you don't suppose to earn any referral rewards if your friend do not stay active. 

[ShawnC13]

@kav2001c, another thing about autopay rewards that makes me think you get the discount for your 90 days upfront.  PM advertises plans  as an example as $38* (with autopay)  If they don't give the double credits on first renewal you don't get that advertised price for your original term.  We know PM is prepaid so to list the prices with autopay included would mean the reward is upfront and not earned during your cycle.

[ShawnC13]

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@kav2001c wrote:

I have NEVER seen a $12 autopay credit

Ever

Mods can vouch I have activated over 50* accounts over the years personally and have dealt with tons of bugs

*most recent being the $10 promo plan so just about 1.5 months ago

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That is great that you have activated that many accounts.  Just saying my real life experience is different than yours.  Plus there is no way the $10 promo would ever see $12 autopay on  first renewal probably $4.

[kav2001c]

@ShawnC13

There would be potential differences in Refer credits whether your refer account happens before or after your renewal

But anytime their renewal is before yours, if they skip a bill you lose entire amount

They refer 1 day before you, and pay 2 months then don't pay 3rd month, you would get $0 for the referal credit

They refer 1 day after you, and pay 2 months then don't pay 3rd month, you would get $3 for the referal credit (despite them only paying 2 months)

I have NEVER seen a $12 autopay credit

Ever

Mods can vouch I have activated over 50* accounts over the years personally and have dealt with tons of bugs

*most recent being the $10 promo plan so just about 1.5 months ago

[ShawnC13]

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@kav2001c wrote:

And just to be clear since we are now dragging multiple issues into this thread

I am not in any way referring to the FAQs

All comments are directly related to how system works in real life

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Well your real life experiences differ from mine.  The three accounts I setup when I came to PM all received $12 autopay on first renewal.  Refer a friend I guess it depends on when they sign up and when your renewal is.  I have just signed up a 30 day plan and that will overlap my renewal date and I am set to receive $3 even though the account has not been open for 30 days yet.

[kav2001c]

And just to be clear since we are now dragging multiple issues into this thread

I am not in any way referring to the FAQs

All comments are directly related to how system works in real life

[kav2001c]

@ShawnC13no

Again this is wrong

You do NOT get $12 off your first renewal

You get $6

And following month you also get $6

Continuous so long as remain on same plan with autopay enabled

The friend renewal comment is also totally wrong

If I am on a 90 day plan and my friend is on a 30 day plan

Month #1 he paid, it shows estimated $3 credit (3 x $1) on my account

Month #2 he does not pay; it will INSTANTLY send me the warning txt about lower expected rewards, and will REMOVE the $3 credit

So even though he was a client for 1 month you get $0 in reward credits

Also if in Month #3 he comes back and paid, now you will get the ENTIRE $3 credit (despite his only being a paid customer for 2 months during your 90 day cycle)

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@ShawnC13 wrote:

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I have to agree with @NDesai, but maybe his wording is getting interpreted incorrectly.  Kav you are right when you sign up you aren't credited the $6 for autopay right away and you do get it on your first renewal but on this first renewal you are actually credited with a $12 autopay reward it is doubled to account for it not being applied  when you signed up.

Take refer a friend they sign up mid cycle look in rewards you have $3 for them on your next renewal.  Say this person leaves 60 days into the next cycle you don't earn $2 because they already gave you the full $3 on your last renewal for this referral.

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[NDesai]

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@JL9 wrote:

This what came first the chicken or egg logic is making my head spin...lol which is fine because I'm precariously close to pushing the **bleep** it button on the new plan anyways.

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Give this explanation a try before you do anything:

Plans i will refer to is for $120 on a 90 days and $40 on a 30 days.

If you were to not change to a 30 days plan, your bill will be $114, correct? Yes! You earned total of $6 discount for the 90 days of service you will have. 

But if you were to change to a 30 days plan, your bill will be $38. On the next renewal, it will be $38 and again $38 for another renewal. For total of 90 days of service, you earned $6 total discount. This is exactly the same thing as earning rewards on a 90 days plan. 

This is simple to understand if you just think about the additional rewards you earned for enabling AutoPay during activation. 

[NDesai]

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@kav2001c wrote:

@NDesaithis is wrong

I have activated many plans

You activate a new SIM

You enroll in autopay at time of activation

You do NOT get the $2/$6 discount off your first bill

You get it off your second bill (despite prepaying)

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No, it's not wrong. I would totally understand if we were not awarded with the $6 autopay at the beginning of the cycle. It is technically subtracted from your first bill because think of it as you added $6 balance to your account after paying total price-$6 autopay reward.  

As i mentioned, your 2nd bill adjusts everything correctly because it subtracts double AutoPay rewards. If you were to switch to a 30 days plan before your first renewal, $6+$2 would be subtracted.   

[JL9]

This what came first the chicken or egg logic is making my head spin...lol which is fine because I'm precariously close to pushing the **bleep** it button on the new plan anyways.

[NDesai]

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@ShawnC13 wrote:

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@kav2001c wrote:

@NDesaithis is wrong

I have activated many plans

You activate a new SIM

You enroll in autopay at time of activation

You do NOT get the $2/$6 discount off your first bill

You get it off your second bill (despite prepaying)

I have to agree with @NDesai, but maybe his wording is getting interpreted incorrectly.  Kav you are right when you sign up you aren't credited the $6 for autopay right away and you do get it on your first renewal but on this first renewal you are actually credited with a $12 autopay reward it is doubled to account for it not being applied  when you signed up.

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Correct. $6 Credit you get after activating, how is it not the same as earning before the first renewal? It just delays due to the way it is set up and it just sits on your account and minuses from the next renewal ($6 earned right after activating + $6 Autopay reward). Your 2nd bill adjusts everything as it minuses the additional reward earned for enabling AutoPay during activation.  

I am completely right about this, and the system is correctly working as it supposed to. 

[ShawnC13]

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@kav2001c wrote:

@NDesaithis is wrong

I have activated many plans

You activate a new SIM

You enroll in autopay at time of activation

You do NOT get the $2/$6 discount off your first bill

You get it off your second bill (despite prepaying)

I have to agree with @NDesai, but maybe his wording is getting interpreted incorrectly.  Kav you are right when you sign up you aren't credited the $6 for autopay right away and you do get it on your first renewal but on this first renewal you are actually credited with a $12 autopay reward it is doubled to account for it not being applied  when you signed up.

Take refer a friend they sign up mid cycle look in rewards you have $3 for them on your next renewal.  Say this person leaves 60 days into the next cycle you don't earn $2 because they already gave you the full $3 on your last renewal for this referral.

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[kav2001c]

@NDesaithis is wrong

I have activated many plans

You activate a new SIM

You enroll in autopay at time of activation

You do NOT get the $2/$6 discount off your first bill

You get it off your second bill (despite prepaying)

As to the discrepancy for 90 to 30 day changes

I prepay 90 days and system allocates a $6 credit (again not on current bill, on NEXT bill)

I switch to a 30 day plan and system will remove the $6 credit and allocate a $3 credit (despite fact I have currently paid for 90 days and have simply future dated a 30 day plan)

The credit is always applied a month later (after it is earned)

So in every scenario you will end up losing credits

It gets worse when you future date and the delete future plan changes

The $6 credit is removed and $2 credit is added

Cancel future plan change and $2 credit is removed

Then (depending on which day you removed plan change) system will either add a $4 credit or a $0 credit

I've emailed mods many times regarding this bug

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@NDesai wrote:Rewards are definitely earned for the future renewals. As i said, the system awarded AutoPay credit right when we signed up. So technically, we got paid before even working  those shifts (for 90 days plan). 

Let me try to put this as an example. 

A user activates on a 90 days plan and earns $6 AutoPay credit. Let's assume that the system was capable enough to directly apply that $6 during the activation rather than adding it to the account as a credit. So for the first prepaid plan, the user paid ($114+tax). This discount was earned first so what the rewards system should give will be dependant on the future plan. 

If the user switches to a 30 days plan, rewards should be $2, because in theory we do not earn it later for the time we did, we earned it before we did the time. 

Now what you guys are suggesting is that rewards should be $6 for the future 30 days plan? Why? You already got the $6 at the beginning. If i try to calculate the rewards earned for the 30 days, it will $2+$2+$2 for total 90 days of service. This equals to $6 which 90 days plan would give you. If you were to count $6 for the first renewal, rewards earned would be $6+$2+$2=$10. This is not suppose to happen simply because we get rewards in advanced. 

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[NDesai]

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@computergeek541 wrote:

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@NDesai wrote:

And even if we just count how much reward the system gives (for a 30 days plan) in 90 days, it should equal to the same amount. 

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The argument (which I happen to agree with) is that when you make the change, you've done everything you need to do get the older (higher) reward amount, and that nothing has actually changed until the new plan comes into effect.  Rewards are for what you have done or have paid for, not what you will be doing in the future - kind of like going to work 9 to 5 and you get paid for 8 hours after you've completed those 8 hours.  Now, if your work schedule changes to 9 to 4 for the future, does that mean that you should only get paid for 7 hours for the pervious shift that you've already worked 8?  Of course not.

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Rewards are definitely earned for the future renewals. As i said, the system awarded AutoPay credit right when we signed up. So technically, we got paid before even working  those shifts (for 90 days plan). 

Let me try to put this as an example. 

A user activates on a 90 days plan and earns $6 AutoPay credit. Let's assume that the system was capable enough to directly apply that $6 during the activation rather than adding it to the account as a credit. So for the first prepaid plan, the user paid ($114+tax). This discount was earned first so what the rewards system should give will be dependant on the future plan. 

If the user switches to a 30 days plan, rewards should be $2, because in theory we do not earn it later for the time we did, we earned it before we did the time. 

Now what you guys are suggesting is that rewards should be $6 for the future 30 days plan? Why? You already got the $6 at the beginning. If i try to calculate the rewards earned for the 30 days, it will $2+$2+$2 for total 90 days of service. This equals to $6 which 90 days plan would give you. If you were to count $6 for the first renewal, rewards earned would be $6+$2+$2=$10. This is not suppose to happen simply because we get rewards in advanced. 

[computergeek541]

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@NDesai wrote:

And even if we just count how much reward the system gives (for a 30 days plan) in 90 days, it should equal to the same amount. 

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The argument (which I happen to agree with) is that when you make the change, you've done everything you need to do get the older (higher) reward amount, and that nothing has actually changed until the new plan comes into effect.  Rewards are for what you have done or have paid for, not what you will be doing in the future - kind of like going to work 9 to 5 and you get paid for 8 hours after you've completed those 8 hours.  Now, if your work schedule changes to 9 to 4 for the future, does that mean that you should only get paid for 7 hours for the pervious shift that you've already worked 8?  Of course not.

[NDesai]

Indeed this is confusing. But shouldn't any prepaid system supposed to behave as such? When a user activates, the system awards the AutoPay credit depending on 30 or 90 days. Going forward, depending on what plan the system will renew, it will give the rewards depending on the length of plan. If someone switches to a 30 days plan, because it is prepaid, rewards should be in accordance with 30 days. If someone switches to a 90 days plan, rewards will be in accordance with the 90 days plan. No? 

I think this makes sense to me. Why should the system give you $6 AutoPay for switching to a 30 days plan? Remember, we started earning rewards in the prepaid fashion because we were given the $6/$2 AutoPay credit when we activated. 

And even if we just count how much reward the system gives (for a 30 days plan) in 90 days, it should equal to the same amount. 

[computergeek541]

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@JL9 wrote:

Correct. Isnt this something that should be an easy fix?

The frustrating thing is it shows rewards for 30 days instead of 90, but then when you click on the rewards section the new rewards where you I am losing $10 still shows the 90 day total ie. $120 minus the (wrong) rewards, so I will be paying $109...?!?! Instead of saying $29. 

Lol soooooo which one is it?

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Even if they couldn't fix the system in a timely manner, it should be very easy for the moderators to just issue a manual credit to top up your account.  They would just have to take a look at the loyalty, referal, and autopay rewards and just triple the amount of each of those.  That difference between that amount and the reduced reward amounts could be added to the customer's account as soon as the moderators are informed.

[JL9]

Maybe they should let @stonechucker do the code after all 😏

[JL9]

Correct. Isnt this something that should be an easy fix?

The frustrating thing is it shows rewards for 30 days instead of 90, but then when you click on the rewards section the new rewards where you I am losing $10 still shows the 90 day total ie. $120 minus the (wrong) rewards, so I will be paying $109...?!?! Instead of saying $29. 

Lol soooooo which one is it?

[computergeek541]

To anyone new to this issue, here's what's gong on:

Customer switches from 90 day plan to 30 day plan.

Rewards such a Autopay reward was at $6 ($2 per 30 days). 

As soon as customer sets plan to change at the start of the next renewal date, the Autopay Rewards (in the above example) changes to $2.

Because the customer has will end up completing the full 90 day plan until the switch is made, that $6 Autopay reward will have been earned by that person at that exact moment in time.  However, since we know how the plan renwal system works, it looks as if the customer will only receive $2, a discrpency of $4.  This is even though the customer will have fullfilled the conditions to be eligible for the higher reward amount.

In summary, the billing system is changing the reward amounts permaturely. It should only be doing it after the paln change goes through, and the old (higher) reward amounts shold be used until after the next renewal.

[stonechucker]

Sealing with it.  Plan cancelled this morning, rewards working towards getting the correct amounts.

I won’t be making any future changes to a 30 day plan.  I will stick with my Fall 2016 Promo until I die, or a better 90 day plan appears.

i didn’t know about this glitch, other than @JL9‘s Right before me, but I thought all would be fine, until my rewards were screwed up 2 days later.

the scripting is broken, for calculating rewards when changing plan lengths.  I would love to look at the code and fix it for them.