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Reflection on the Community

ShawnC13
Oracle
Oracle

This thread has been created with the agreement of the user who made the following post in another thread.  Some will find this very ironic that I have moved a post from The Lounge to the General Forum (especially @darlicious ) as this isn't phone or account-related.  This is community-related and very important to the health and survival of this community.  I think it is very important to have some history of where we have come from for the newer members.  For those that have not seen these charts just look at the numbers and those that have been around a while will tell you that there are fewer issues being dealt with now then there was in the past.  So how did the numbers get so inflated?

 

Below picture form @popping 

ShawnC13_0-1588177046609.png

The following are from @darlicious 

ShawnC13_1-1588177438064.png

ShawnC13_2-1588177542183.png

Finally Today.  Look at the jump in just over 2 months.  If this was financial inflation we would not survive this.

ShawnC13_0-1588179004241.png

 

 


I am happy to help, but I am not a Customer Support Agent please do not include any personal info in a message to me. Click HERE to create a trouble ticket through SIMon the Chatbot *

37 REPLIES 37

Pawprints1986
Deputy Mayor / Adjoint au Maire

I'm still pretty new, so I won't say alot, but I took the bravo to mean you like the idea, or as a thank you for the advice, returning to say this or that did help, or simply that you agree with whatever someone else already answered... Sort of like many reactions rolled into one button. 

 

That said I try not to answer if someone else already did, unless I've thought of something to add maybe an idea that that person hadn't tried yet and that the other persons answer didn't say

 

I feel like I've been pretty modest about both things 🤷‍

 

I got a reward last month for community but I was new and had had so many questions. I wouldn't be suprised if that doesn't happen now with just sort of popping in to see if someone else needs help. 

I may have found the secret to Community Rewards....Just walk through this Gate, That clearly has a B above it for Bravo.

Screenshot_20200502_185605.jpg

what they said

 

lol

Anonymous
Not applicable

@computergeek541 wrote:

I'll agree that has to be some slack given as people do type at the same time as others or put the keyboard down for a minute to get a coffee, and don't necessarily hit the refresh button to check for new replies. 

I don't refresh before posting. Can't be bothered. I refresh. Oh I'll answer that. Start typing. Post. Oh crap. Already answered by 6 others. Edit. Add ninja'd. Done.

And other times it's a funny coincidence that someone else had also decided to reply on a post that was sitting for a while.

 

I have sometimes observed that I refresh and nothing new. I refresh again and a whole raft of replies has happened. wth Probably my browser and my settings. Meh.


@computergeek541 wrote:

@will13am wrote:

BTW, I don't have any issues if the same few members answering every question first.  It is the often needless discussions that span multiple pages that is off putting.  If OP brings to light new information, it is fair game to respond again.  At least give the member asking the question a chance to digest some of the feedback.

My concerns are not with 2 or 3 people answering everything first. If they're quicker than others, what am I to say about that?  My issue is what results from that with the often deliberate repetition from some others.  I'll agree that has to be some slack given as people do type at the same time as others or put the keyboard down for a minute to get a coffee, and don't necessarily hit the refresh button to check for new replies. There are also honest mistakes. However, there are many, many cases in which people are doing it for no other reason to increase the post and bravo count. 


This is the ramblings into page 3 and beyond that I have been referring to.  

Hi this is not directed at any one person but I think most of us come here to help out a little have a little interaction maybe get a thank you in the form of a bravo  or just a plain thank you is great also,we don't need all this bickering between members I even see the differing points of view and possibly some tension between some of the oracles, this forum is not perfect and I  believe it has to bend and grow with the old and new members alike so let's all chill a little try and have a little fun hopefully get along a little better, this world is going through enough crap right now so we don't need it here too so lets have a little fun and maybe help some people 😃

fdrcamb519
Deputy Mayor / Adjoint au Maire

@shep22 

thank you for your honest expressions, you have a Bravo,  from me.


@will13am wrote:

BTW, I don't have any issues if the same few members answering every question first.  It is the often needless discussions that span multiple pages that is off putting.  If OP brings to light new information, it is fair game to respond again.  At least give the member asking the question a chance to digest some of the feedback.

My concerns are not with 2 or 3 people answering everything first. If they're quicker than others, what am I to say about that?  My issue is what results from that with the often deliberate repetition from some others.  I'll agree that has to be some slack given as people do type at the same time as others or put the keyboard down for a minute to get a coffee, and don't necessarily hit the refresh button to check for new replies. There are also honest mistakes. However, there are many, many cases in which people are doing it for no other reason to increase the post and bravo count. 


@Luddite wrote:

Some of my thoughts on the Community, albeit not as verbose as some:

 

a) should Bravos = Likes >> sure, because sometimes that is what I mean 🤔

b) should someone Bravo every post from another member >> no; even a Like should show some discrimination

c) can a member participate too much, or receive too many Bravos .... no; I see no evidence that the number of participants has declined since @gblackma arrived, even though it's annoying he almost always beats me to the punch 😎

d) Discussions as a board for supporting customer issues has been sorely wounded. Many topics should be in the Lounge. @Tiana_V 's definition is too broad.

e) I would like a search facility for the Lounge; some topics are useful

f) relax 🙏 ;  participation here should "tickle your fancy" or be abandoned for something more enjoyably meaningful

g) finally, if you subscribe to @will13am 's motto of "follow your wallet", this forum is not the place for you


Responses:

 

c) The participation level has been relatively constant due to having every thread grow exponentially.  I have to say that this does detract from the usefulness of the community.  A new customer tries a search to learn something about the service.  A simple question is asked, 5 pages of discussion ensue.  This new customer will no have clue what is going on.  There are consequences.  Do you supply a forum for a dozen or so campers or do you stay focused on the core function of the community?  Can't have one without impairing the other. 

 

BTW, I don't have any issues if the same few members answering every question first.  It is the often needless discussions that span multiple pages that is off putting.  If OP brings to light new information, it is fair game to respond again.  At least give the member asking the question a chance to digest some of the feedback.

 

g) I have explained before how community participation in the bigger picture is much more rewarding than the community reward itself which if narrowly viewed is slave labor/labor of love.  By all measures, I have extracted great value from my time in the community.  Likely ditto for all the oracles.  

 

 

@ShawnC13 you know you're the best! I didn't expect to beat the masta. 

 

-dont hate the playa, hate the game!

 

Some of my thoughts on the Community, albeit not as verbose as some:

 

a) should Bravos = Likes >> sure, because sometimes that is what I mean 🤔

b) should someone Bravo every post from another member >> no; even a Like should show some discrimination

c) can a member participate too much, or receive too many Bravos .... no; I see no evidence that the number of participants has declined since @gblackma arrived, even though it's annoying he almost always beats me to the punch 😎

d) Discussions as a board for supporting customer issues has been sorely wounded. Many topics should be in the Lounge. @Tiana_V 's definition is too broad.

e) I would like a search facility for the Lounge; some topics are useful

f) relax 🙏 ;  participation here should "tickle your fancy" or be abandoned for something more enjoyably meaningful

g) finally, if you subscribe to @will13am 's motto of "follow your wallet", this forum is not the place for you


>>> ALERT: I am not a CSA. Je ne suis pas un Agent du soutien à la clientèle.


@gpixel wrote:

one time baby! c'mon!

 

Screenshot_20200501-050415-01.jpeg

shawnny boi, I gotcha! awwwwwwwwh yeah!


@gpixel I guess I should have made more posts saying "What they said"  It is also a matter of perspective and who is looking and where.

ShawnC13_0-1588369568170.png

 

 


I am happy to help, but I am not a Customer Support Agent please do not include any personal info in a message to me. Click HERE to create a trouble ticket through SIMon the Chatbot *

one time baby! c'mon!

 

Screenshot_20200501-050415-01.jpeg

shawnny boi, I gotcha! awwwwwwwwh yeah!

The direction that Public Mobile has taken this Community has almost been an attempt to be everything to everyone. Unfortunately, by trying to please everyone, sometimes nobody ends up being happy.

Anonymous
Not applicable

@ShawnC13 wrote:

I know a lot of people have focused on the leaderboard attachments in this thread.  I actually wanted to highlight the second post in the thread by @darlicious this is coming from a non-Oracle @Anonymous who has made similar statements as well about the community.  Admittedly I have butted heads with both in the past but like adults, we carry on helping in the community until our next pinch point that we work through.  It is always mentioned that it is the Oracles that see the forum different but we are getting many community members seeing this as well so this thread was more about her post the charts were only for the information in her posts.


And so I get dragged in. And here we disagree.

I don't agree that you brought this up from The Lounge.

 

Discussions

A general forum for phone related posts that don’t fit anywhere else.
 
This ain't phone related. I know I know darlicious won the war to have this category more open from what the Oracles had previously practiced.
 
No - I don't like to see multiple same answers (other than ninja's or odd coincidental timing). I think of the poor customer getting bombarded with all the notifications of all the posts that turn out to be the same answer. But this practice has gone on since the beginning of time here.
No - I don't like to see a post saying "what he said". Although I know I say something like "as mentioned above"...is that really the same? But it's usually a part of another part of the question that I'm trying to answer. But this practice has gone on since the beginning of time here.
No - I don't think it's reasonable that one participant has garnered several thousand bravos posting some of the above ways and what with the lower overall volume of activity around here. At the same time, I tip my hat to his speedy refresh/post rate when he has the first reply. It's entirely within his rights to sit at his computer all day doing that.
 
But this isn't my system. I'm just another anonymous punter here. And then the repeat of my line here...none of this matters. Don't sweat it. It'll sort itself out. Every place like this will evolve into what the users make of it. There's the flag function. There're the Oracles. There're the mods.
 
Bet you're sorry you mentioned my username 🙂

Jb456
Mayor / Maire

First page started off good. Then each page I continue to read is more the Oracle's putting down regular members. Which is a given lately.

 

Yes i agree with some things that have been said and don't agree with other things. The Bravo topic sure it has gotten to be like Facebook. Where I don't agree is an Oracle first giving Koodos to a member for a Bravo achievement then as it progresses talking negative and down towards the member (indirectly) as it continued. Then a double standard and reverting back to congratulations again when a new limit was reached. To now commenting negative again 🤔

 

As I've always said in good or bad times you Oracle's are good at what you do and the community appreciates you for that. However there comes a time when the need to let things be calm and chill out a bit need to happen. We all get it everyone is stressed with current world pandemic but it does not have to be taken out on here where it's supposed to be a friendly social atmosphere to help people and bond together as team. Which at one point I thought these forums were.

 

But whatever. Just keep in mind when one thing you post does not match your next post it's taken with a grain of salt.

 

Oh-God-The.jpg

 

mimmo
Retired Oracle / Oracle Retraité

The only  thing I woudl like to add,  is often people quote this or that statement from Public Mobile  re: bravos, where a topic should go, solutions etc.... and that is the way it is and has to be.

 

I will however always remember my   Law 101 professor sayin:  there is the Letter of the Law but also the Spirit of the Law.   And I feel many things here come down more towards the Spirit  of the Law rather than the letter of the law.   

I know a lot of people have focused on the leaderboard attachments in this thread.  I actually wanted to highlight the second post in the thread by @darlicious this is coming from a non-Oracle @Anonymous who has made similar statements as well about the community.  Admittedly I have butted heads with both in the past but like adults, we carry on helping in the community until our next pinch point that we work through.  It is always mentioned that it is the Oracles that see the forum different but we are getting many community members seeing this as well so this thread was more about her post the charts were only for the information in her posts.

 


I am happy to help, but I am not a Customer Support Agent please do not include any personal info in a message to me. Click HERE to create a trouble ticket through SIMon the Chatbot *

@gpixel, i guess 

 


@gpixel wrote:

@mpcdesignwhen you think about it, let's say youre on here 16 hrs a day refreshing your browser to be the first reply. and you get to the top 1%. you're basically getting payed .03 cents an hour by pm. 😂 


if you truly want to spend 16 hours a day, refreshing your browser window and be the first reply sounds like you have nothing better else to do? 

For me, I rather not waste my time being the first reply, because there will always be something here who'll probably beat me a split second before me!

@computergeek541 yeah I agree with you, I see that alot. but bro, I'm #18! I'm killin it right now 💪. gblackmas a quick popper though, what can you do?

 

High bravos amounts aren't a good thing. It doesn't mean that more people are being helped. On the contrary, it could mean that less people are being helped. Everyone has different standards on what deserves a bravo. I can accept that. However, the thinking that eveyone is getting more bravos just isn't a true. A handful of people are getting more but others will often get nothing unless posting nonsense or irrelevant information.  This doesn't help anybody.  it makes it harder for people to find the answers that they're looking for. It's comes to the point that even flat-out wrong answers get multiple bravos now. How is anyone supposed to know what's correct when that happens?

@mpcdesignwhen you think about it, let's say youre on here 16 hrs a day refreshing your browser to be the first reply. and you get to the top 1%. you're basically getting payed .03 cents an hour by pm. 😂 

@ShawnC13 I had a different reply, but because of people answering so quick. I edited my post. that's amazing I got 6 Bravo's. thanks for showing me that lol

@mpcdesign your writing is like therapy to me lol. You have this calm demeanour about you and it truly is refreshing to read. Thank you for helping us new people to feel welcome and supported in these rough waters. look forward to being a long time PUBLIC MOBILE customer!

 

Cheers

Wow, this was an interesting reflection from @ShawnC13. Thanks for putting things in perspective here. I mostly agree with the Oracles here, even when I first started in 2017, I think the most I saw was about 1100 posts in a month. It's crazy to see people getting over 2000 bravoes, and seeing some of the new people after a day or even 3 weeks, have passed some top contributors and getting bravoes in the hundreds, for a buck or two! 

What people won't do for a few bucks. A community such as this one, I think is a group of people who share common goals, attitudes and collaborate on open questions and queries. Such communities have become the template for a cohort-based, for many businesses customers and clients. 

Some people know how I feel all about this. And yes, I had my share of the run-ins with oracles. But @shep22, I have to tell you Oracles are customers too. Yes, they get the automatic $20 bucks from their accounts, but they are paid customers like you. They are basically customers who have been with Public Mobile as far back as 2015. They may have a $40 or $50 plan, do they still have to pay the other $20 or $30 a month. Yep, they are customers because they have to pay (not including the other rewards either!)

 

We all had our share of the run-ins, don't take this post or any other posts as a direct personal attack on you. Cooler egos prevail! 

 

We are welcome to say anything you want, just watch the way how one says it. No profanities, no racist remarks. No putting 'I' comments versus 'YOU' comments. And being down-right rude to one another. As a time in reflection, in a time where uncertainty, we should be helping one another with open arms. I also like this 'It's karma, what goes around comes around! 

If you want to discuss the matter or if the topic goes off, maybe move the discussion to the Lounge or a private chat. The Lounge technique is a great way to acknowledge the value of the idea, while at the same time keep us on track with the original goal of the post. This allows us to successfully accomplish the meeting goals – and still take advantage of the great brainstorming that was naturally inspired by the collaboration.

 

To the other post-ers such as @popping , @Naepalm , @darlicious , you all make valid points. I do disagree that we need new Oracles. Maybe add a few fresher heads in the team, but not changing the old with the new. 

I also agree the community forum is a great way, NOT so much the bravo'd board.

 

But, then again, nobody really knows, but there could be a crazy-ass formula, such as taking the averages of the bravoes. They could be removing all the posts from users with just one post, and taking the top of the leaderboard, and averaging it all out. Don't forget solutions has a play in this as well. There are months I thought I was in the top 5%, but got rewarded as a Top 10%.

 

For example, for the month of April, I am at 20th out of 968 users at this time of post. This equates to 2.1% but, when it comes to rewards, I will be in the top 10%! Guarantee!

So, I wouldn't get bent out of shape, nobody knows, and I am glad, keep everybody on their toes. 

 

@will13am hi maybe we should be more like Simon the bot and not be sociable at all?🤖🤖🤣


@Naepalm wrote:

@will13am  a post like this is SUPER helpful for me, now knowing that the community culture is Bravos = Thank you for putting in the effort. And are not considered a like 👍button, this essentially changes how I think about giving bravos out.

 

Previously If I comment on a thread I would just cycle through the thread and hit the bravos button, unless someone said something mean. Not because I have a pact, but because I thought that's what you do. Sorry for my naive approach. Figuring out whats what has been a process in the making for sure! LOL 

 

Have a swell day! 🙂


This board is very different than a platform like facebook.  One of the parameters used to assess community rewards is bravos.  When the top performers consistently bravo each other's post, there is an element of gaming going on to ensure maximum rewards.  These days, bravo count is no longer a measure of merit.  Sadly, neither is overall activity.  Back in the day, threads rarely exceed one or two posts and almost never one page.  Quite often, those responding subsequently with the same response would delete their own responses and apologize for being repetitive.  Today threads are rarely shorter than several pages with the same individuals posting over and over again?  I appreciate people want to be sociable while helping other members.  What we see is not being social.  Imagine if you went to the help desk for a question and several people go ballistic with response after response and completely overwhelm you.  Is this being helpful or hurtful?  The poor person seeking help here is going to have to wade through 5 pages of discussion between several members to sort out what the proper solution is to their problem.  Is all the nonsense after the first couple of replies of value or detriment?  To me it is totally off putting.  I know the offenders hate me for being open with my opinions.  To be fair, you have to walk a mile in the member's shoes that actually has the problem and is looking for help.  Long story short, the main forum is a help forum first and foremost and not a place for "social release".  

 


 

Honestly, I really don't like commenting on these types of threads because it just seems to feed into a lot of negativity, unnecessarily IMO and I don't understand why people have become fixated on the number of bravos or so called quality/quantity of posts (a concern that started before some of the newer posters, I might add).  Especially since you go can probably go back to older threads and see similar concerns expressed years before all this recent activity.  

 

There's many newer users here who have far outpaced me in the number of posts and bravos, and it would make sense that someone posting a greater quantity, then their bravo total would also be that much higher and as long as they provided some useful advice/suggestion to the OP I don't see the need to complain about that because there are no "official" rules being broken here.  It is the system PM has designed and if there is some major problem and people are getting rewarded for providing incorrect information, then it is up to PM to fix it.  

 

Personally I would also prefer that if either PM staff or Oracles have concerns with a particular user "gaming" the rewards, then they should send a private message to that user about their concerns first.   Maybe, or not, that may give some users something to think about if they received a heads up that this is not the ideal way to participate before accusations are made in the community forum and should only be done after exhausting other options.  Anyway, that's JMO...

 

 

@will13am  a post like this is SUPER helpful for me, now knowing that the community culture is Bravos = Thank you for putting in the effort. And are not considered a like 👍button, this essentially changes how I think about giving bravos out.

 

Previously If I comment on a thread I would just cycle through the thread and hit the bravos button, unless someone said something mean. Not because I have a pact, but because I thought that's what you do. Sorry for my naive approach. Figuring out whats what has been a process in the making for sure! LOL 

 

Have a swell day! 🙂


@darlicious wrote:

@popping 

        Your screenshot of the bravo leaderboard from two years ago really puts into perspective what has happened in the last few months to the community. Bravos have been watered down to a meaningless Facebook "like", threads are filled with not 3 or 4 of the same answer in quick succession  but filled with 10, 12 or 20 of the same answer. I'm so tired of seeing the same macro (lol I learned what that was a couple of weeks ago) or copy and pasted answer filled with every hedge my bet answer to get the solution. The deterioration of the quality of posts and bravo value that accompanies them has precipitous since february. I can almost pinpoint it to when I took over the leaderboard with 800 bravos and hadn't even noticed until @will13am pointed it out to me. I was so proud of myself....six months of hard work and a huge learning curve.

           My glory lasted a whole week and the two man race started with two starkly different warriors. One whose unique and vast knowledge about public mobile and the operating systems of a myriad of phones has helped countless members and the other determined to be the fastest, most prolific, all encompassing and unbeatable bravo leader there ever has or ever will be on the community.

       This has now caused every new member to think this is the norm. Newcomers either jump on this senseless bandwagon or don't even try because they think the time they have to contribute and learn is worthless in comparison.....which is sad because the talented, skilled and selfless souls will give of their time elsewhere where it will be valued. Already so many of the regular members who contribute true quality help, opinion, knowledge and mentorship to the community have stepped back....sickened by the poorly disguised gamesmanship and selfish pursuit of notoriety and the stroking of one's ego. Even as prolific as my posting has been (and this turning into a wall of text....whoops sorry!) I have dialed back only posting when something has been missed or in a current discussion. Retreating to reading and posting late at night to avoid being ninja'd half a dozen times and being able to help the occasional OP one on one because everyone else is asleep. Or as @mimmo said....im heading to the lounge. Well a few of us may have been banished here awhile back (lol joking!!!) But the lounge has become the cool place to chill and hang out with interesting threads, discussions and even @CannonFodder 's  Off Topic meme thread that walks the terms of service line more often than not is much more interesting than the daily shenanigans going on in the community.

 

The times are a changin' and its come the time to change the community...it needs a complete overhaul or instead of change it will just come to an end or worse yet turn into fido's community!


Copy, paste from the lounge since this is a parallel thread.

 

The deterioration of the community is literally complete.  Personally, I would feel shame instead of pride in making the daily records.  The bravo button is intended to reward good effort.  Recognizing that there is a social element involved, the 80/20 rule may apply.  If a "friend" posts, a 20% benefit of the doubt is used to recognize the 80% effort.  We have gone to the point of what I see as the -10/110 rule.  If a friend posts something that has -10% value, 110% social considerations are applied to hitting the bravo button.  How does anyone explain this post getting 6 bravos as of now?  It is self evident those who hit the bravo button have a secret pact to bravo everything in sight in exchange for the same consideration.  To this end, you should feel that at least your efforts of months past while apparently dwarfed was for the most part earned whereas current records are not.  What is in a meaningless number that garners less and less meaning as it gets larger each day?

 

https://productioncommunity.publicmobile.ca/t5/Paying-for-your-service/Auto-pay/m-p/535831/highlight...

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