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Re: Upcoming Help Changes + Feedback

kav2001c
Mayor / Maire

@Chanah

 

Not missing anything you have hit the nail on the head

The issue is a very small percentage of posters make up an absurdly large percentage of posts

As such they clearly will always dominate ANY metric, be it bravos, solutions, or rewards

 

The powers that be are asking if the primary metric be a short term smaller number would it encourage newer posters to contribute more

 

I personally am doubtful as certain posters are basically spamming the forums at this point (using macros and copy + pasting generic answers often without even reading the original question, then getting 50 bravos from their long time good buddies)

 

Its absurd that some posters get more bravos than we have questions from members posted in a month

 


@Chanah wrote:

I'm confused. Pretty neutral on the bravos thing, and not sure how it would encourage community participation. As it stands, if people are around, there are likely to be five answers to a question (or one answer with five different wordings) in pretty short order. Those, I wouldn't bother to add another answer to because....why? Or is that what you want?

 

I usually keep pretty odd hours, so if there's an unanswered question and I know the answer, sure, I'll do it. But I don't see the point to adding another answer to a row of answers. Make sense? Or is that what you want so that people will get a couple dollars off their phone bill? 

 

What am I missing here?


 

31 REPLIES 31

Anonymous
Not applicable

Wow.

 

Your assessments of the bravo counts that would likely place a user in each reward level are fantastic. THAT'S how you attract other user participation. "Oh...25 bravos and I can look forward to some rewards..yeah...I can do that". Or "yeah I don't know about the time needed to get 100 but we'll see...I do have other things I need to do too".

Great stuff.


@kav2001c wrote:

@RobertQc

You know what they say about a guilty conscience and all

I never once mentioned anyone by name, you both suddenly went on the warpath all by yourselves

I think your attitude + defensiveness speaks volumes

BTW and since you tried to pull srlawren into this;

Yes if he was bravo-ing one person excessively most of us would notice as well

But he tends to be very giving with bravos in general and if you look at who he bravos there is no one single poster he has given such a huge percentage too

The meme just shows you have WAY too much free time on your hands



@kav2001cGuilt free here buddy. You think that is excessive? Of course, you do. You are the one that suggested every user should max out at 1 bravo per day.

 

You can think all you want but you should spend more thinking power on learning how percentages work. You are talking about record or near breaking contributors. Both on at similar hours that help out customers at the same time. When you are making 1000 posts, and someone else is making 1000’s of posts at the same time, you bump into each other. We are talking about an average of less than 2 bravo’s per day. If anything, we don’t give each other enough.

 

If you paid attention you would know there is no reward difference if you removed the or 40-50 bravo’s per month. The difference between 700 bravo’s a month and 750 bravo’s per month is $0. Just like the difference between 150 and 200 is $0.Where it really matters is 0 to 5. Or 10 to 25. And we are LONG passed the top 50%, 25%, etc

 

Over the last 6 months it takes around 480-550+ to reach $15 in top 1%. Once you make the cut, another 500 bravos’ might as well be 0. If @Anonymous cut his participation in half it would change nothing.

 

Over the last 6 months its been around 80-120+ to reach $10 in top 5%. Which again, unless you plan on bringing your 100 bravos to 500 you are still going to be in the top 5% and even an extra 300 bravos when you are at 100 will net you $0.

 

If someone who has 250 posts games the system for 100 extra bravos it results in $0. Wtf would be the point? It results in nothing. The rewards system has brackets and resets every month.

 

Yea yea I know magic formula, but if you look, every month at the bravo leaderboard and compare it to the rewards top contributor thread you get the idea. It's not all bravo's, but generally they it all comes together similar within a couple 1:2 1:3 ratio, bravos, posts, solutions, etc.

 

 

Anonymous
Not applicable

 @kav2001c

You seem to continue to fail to grasp a fundamental concept around all of this. We both spend ridiculously countless hours here. FAR more than it's monetarily worth.

I know this is hard for conservative type people to understand but we get some satisfaction from helping people. We like to see them go away with a working service. The bravos might come. They might not. The solutions might come. They might not. Whatever. Yet here we are.

For sheer volume, of course we'll get lots of bravos. And along the way some solutions get clicked. And each and every time it does, there's a hit in the brain. It's probably a lot like a drug.

For me, wrt RobertQc, the other 92% of bravos are from others. All of the sheer volume of posts made garner some bravos. Turns out we get more bravo's than posts. That's a reflection on quality. Unlike yourself regardless of how much time you put in here.

 

If we choose to spend those ridiculously countless hours doing this, then that's our choice.

Don't be hatin' on us for choosing to do so. You can judge all you want but what we do is up to us. The rest is YOUR problem.

 

I feel no guilt around what I've "accomplished" here. Naming names wasn't needed. We're well aware of who you're referring to. And who you were slamming for choosing to participate here.

All your clique buddies on the Oracle team also spend countless hours here. They've risen to Oracle status due to those countless hours. Why aren't you hatin' on them?

@RobertQc

You know what they say about a guilty conscience and all

I never once mentioned anyone by name, you both suddenly went on the warpath all by yourselves

I think your attitude + defensiveness speaks volumes

 

BTW and since you tried to pull srlawren into this;

Yes if he was bravo-ing one person excessively most of us would notice as well

But he tends to be very giving with bravos in general and if you look at who he bravos there is no one single poster he has given such a huge percentage too

 

The meme just shows you have WAY too much free time on your hands

 

 


@RobertQc wrote:

2syxqr.jpg


 

srlawren
Retired Oracle / Oracle Retraité

@RobertQc wrote:

 

@srlawrenHas given z10 792 bravos, are you going to call him out since thats actually more?

 


Please don't drag me into this.  I have bascially stopped reading this thread because the bickering became tiresome.  It's definitely going nowhere quick.


>>> ALERT: I am not a moderator. For account or activation assistance, please click here.

will13am
Oracle
Oracle

This is the unintended consequences of trying to play around with the system and drawing needless attention.  Now all the animosity is free flowing.  This is just a help forum; it is not larger than life.  I don't understand why people can't let the chips fall where they may.  Speaking of turn off for new members, this kind of bickering is probably tops on the list.  Let's lighten up and try to be on the same team again.

2syxqr.jpg

@kav2001cI have given @will13am 1/25th of all of his bravo's. Does that mean we are in cohoots? Or does it mean I was here, making a lot of posts, while he was here making a lot of posts? Its easy to look at anyones profile, look at the top people they have bravo'd and say "well they must be in this together" and figure out some sort of reason in the back of your spinning mind to justify any conclusion you make.

 

At the end of the day, this is a place to help people and we are rewarded pennies per hour for our efforts and continuously slammed by people like you.

 

If you think someone is doing something wrong then notify the authorities. Because last time I checked you were not a mod.

 

 

@Anonymous wrote:
@kav2001c wrote:

Dude your "only" 8% of the highest totals the board has ever seen

That many votes alone is enough to crack the Top10

Hey how about that. If not for ALL of RobertQc's Bravo's, SD08 would be at #10 all time. So? Are you in a clique with SD08?

 Sorry SD08 lol.

 

Anonymous
Not applicable

@kav2001c wrote:

Dude your "only" 8% of the highest totals the board has ever seen

That many votes alone is enough to crack the Top10

Hey how about that. If not for ALL of RobertQc's Bravo's, SD08 would be at #10 all time. So? Are you in a clique with SD08?

 


@kav2001c wrote:

@RobertQc

Interesting both you & Z came up with different totals though

Either way irrelevant




@kav2001cNot irrelevant. Pay attention and read.

8% of z10's total bravos vs 12% of total bravo'd posts.

 

 @Anonymous wrote:

From RobertQc 382. Total 4695 = about 8% of my total.

@RobertQc wrote:

@Anonymoushas 3176 posts and has 382 bravos from me 12%

 

@RobertQc

Cat Indifferent

Not even sure what you are trying to say here?

 

Interesting both you & Z came up with different totals though

Either way irrelevant

 

 


@RobertQc wrote:

@kav2001c  Can you does math?

 

I have 1753 posts I have received 352 bravos from him

@Anonymoushas 3176 posts and has 382 bravos from me

 

12% and 20% is pretty much 100%?

 

@srlawrenHas given z10 792 bravos, are you going to call him out since thats actually more?

 

 


 

@kav2001c  Can you does math?

 

I have 1753 posts I have received 352 bravos from him

@Anonymoushas 3176 posts and has 382 bravos from me

 

12% and 20% is pretty much 100%?

 

@srlawrenHas given z10 792 bravos, are you going to call him out since thats actually more?

 


@kav2001c wrote:

You & Z not so much

Anyone can tell both of you make ALOT of posts (And help a lot of customers)

And you both pretty much bravo whatever the other posts

Its a clique plain and simple

 

 

@kav2001c wrote:

@Anonymous

@RobertQc

 

You guys both bravo the _____ out of each other

Its very obvious

 

@Anonymous

Love how the spin cycle goes both ways

 

Dude your "only" 8% of the highest totals the board has ever seen

That many votes alone is enough to crack the Top10

 

BTW you miscounted

It is MORE than 8% as certain forums do not get tallied into the leaderboards

So if you make 1 post in announcements it shows the 1 post but not the 1 bravo he would have given you

 

 


@Anonymous wrote:

@kav2001c wrote:

@Anonymous

@RobertQc

 

You guys both bravo the _____ out of each other

Its very obvious

 

Either way your attitude in this thread basically demonstrates why this thread exists in the first place

 

I could certainly get someone to shill for me if that was what I cared for


 


From RobertQc 382. Total 4695 = about 8% of my total. Yeah. Get real. I think RobertQc was right...sour grapes.

I was new here less than a year ago. If I can get where I am anyone can. I've gone along with some of the ideas for this topic to try to draw people in to more participation. No problem. Of the however many regulars here the leaderboard is only so long so only so many people can be on it. You can drill down into it to get the full list all you want.


 

Anonymous
Not applicable

@kav2001c wrote:

@Anonymous

@RobertQc

 

You guys both bravo the _____ out of each other

Its very obvious

 

Either way your attitude in this thread basically demonstrates why this thread exists in the first place

 

I could certainly get someone to shill for me if that was what I cared for


 


From RobertQc 382. Total 4695 = about 8% of my total. Yeah. Get real. I think RobertQc was right...sour grapes.

I was new here less than a year ago. If I can get where I am anyone can. I've gone along with some of the ideas for this topic to try to draw people in to more participation. No problem. Of the however many regulars here the leaderboard is only so long so only so many people can be on it. You can drill down into it to get the full list all you want.

@Anonymous

@RobertQc

 

You guys both bravo the _____ out of each other

Its very obvious

 

Either way your attitude in this thread basically demonstrates why this thread exists in the first place

 

I could certainly get someone to shill for me if that was what I cared for

 


@Anonymous wrote:

 @kav2001c

Quality eh? Coming from a guy that has been here as long as you have and you have many more posts than Bravos and a couple few dozen solutions. I've been here less than a year and I've passed you in all but posts. Yup. Sure. I've spent a pile of time doing so. You're the stereo-typical, conservative, business-type, supposedly work hard and reap your rewards kinda guy. Well that's what I've done. You got a problem with that?

Trap. *snort*


 

@pm-smayer97

The ones who fear loss of bravos the most are the ones making it personal

Noone ever said it would remove their rewards for participation, simply that HOW they participate is driving newbie users away

 

That is exactly what Public is asking about; you can see how certain posters try to outshout others in these forums today

 

Srlawren was talking about how the boards and limits changed after the infamous 2016 promo and it was a very different place in the old days

 

Heck for that matter, srlawren has been the rock on these boards and in 4 years I "only" gave him 200 bravos

 

But again I repeat this is EXACTLY why the current system needs to go

There are virtual gangs who tend to bravo whatever the other one writes

 

 

 


@pm-smayer97 wrote:

Folks, I think things are getting a little too personal and losing track of the purpose of this thread. PM is looking to see how best to improve participation by especially new customers, and wondering if the presentation of the leaderboard needs to be tweaked, or how best to apply community rewards to increase participation.

 

Understanding the reality of how bravos can and are dispensed, good or bad, or whatever your perspective, why not focus on the original intent? Is there a better way to tweak the use of the leaderboard and community rewards to increase participation?

 

(keeping in mind the limitations of this forum).


 

Anonymous
Not applicable

 @kav2001c

Quality eh? Coming from a guy that has been here as long as you have and you have many more posts than Bravos and a couple few dozen solutions. I've been here less than a year and I've passed you in all but posts. Yup. Sure. I've spent a pile of time doing so. You're the stereo-typical, conservative, business-type, supposedly work hard and reap your rewards kinda guy. Well that's what I've done. You got a problem with that?

Trap. *snort*

@Anonymous

I didn't actually call you out but you did step right into that bear trap on your own

 

@RobertQc

Thats actually funny you would point that out

And then you guys both bravo each others response as well Cat LOL

 

Either way I say QUALITY of answers is better than quantitiy

My Top10 Bravo recived all time is a whos-who of Mods & Oracles

 

You & Z not so much

Anyone can tell both of you make ALOT of posts

And you both pretty much bravo whatever the other posts

Its a clique plain and simple

 

 


@Anonymous wrote:

@kav2001c wrote:

I personally am doubtful as certain posters are basically spamming the forums at this point (using macros and copy + pasting generic answers often without even reading the original question, then getting 50 bravos from their long time good buddies)

Wow. And YOU don't have "buddies"? There are cliques all over the place around here. Pretty sure you're in at least several.

If you don't want to spend the time to maximise your chances for rewards then that's up to you. It doesn't even take a whole lot to get into some rewards.

Macros etc..why not? The questions are so repetitive. Why type it all out yet again for the thousandths time. The response gets honed to be the best response over time.


 

Anonymous
Not applicable

@NDesai wrote:
Anyone using macro to copy/paste bunch of paragraphs tells me that they want to be really quick to reply. Many of us can guess why. 

I once (yes only once) noticed an Oracle create a blank response as the first response. A couple posts later and that first post finally got filled out with useful information. I can guess why on that. But I only noticed it once. How many times does it go on when I don't happen to refresh to see an initially blank post?

Yup. I use macros because I can get an answer to the customer quickly. The customer is there. Active. Well unless they disappear. Yup. As we all know...the first few posts in a thread get the attention. Happens all the time with the Top Contributors thread. The first few in get piles of Bravos. The later you're in the fewer you'll get. It's just how people work. Nobody is going to scroll through the entire thread Bravo-ing each and every post as they come in or later. No one. The regulars have long since been in the thread slapping backs. Those are the first few.

 


@ShawnC13 wrote:



Just for clarity on this as I was tagged.  That is my signature that appears on every post it is one of the additional features of being an Oracle.  It is not something I have to click on with every post I make.


@ShawnC13Don't even need to click! This is the best kind of automation. Now I understand the "magic hands" @NDesai was speaking of. I would give you two bravo's if I could for the explination. You will have to deal with 1.


@RobertQc wrote:

@NDesai wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:

 

Macros etc..why not? The questions are so repetitive. Why type it all out yet again for the thousandths time. The response gets honed to be the best response over time.



@RobertQc wrote:
Why type the same 12 problems when you can copy and paste the answer, especially when the answer is well written and exactly answers the question you read by the poster.They created macro's for a reason. Mods do this all the time and I have personally received inaacurate copy+pasted responses from the mod team that didn't even read my request, in my experience the copy+pasted answers here by us are usually on par, and even people who vow to never copy+paste sometimes make a mistake and misread something by the customer. 

Really. We never thought of using macros? Why do you think some of us actually type the answer and many times in different way even when browsing from a phone? I wonder why we usually don't tell how our vacation went to friends in exact same words.

The more you do, higher the chance others will learn. Anyone using macro to copy/paste bunch of paragraphs tells me that they want to be really quick to reply. Many of us can guess why. 


 

@NDesai

 

Why don't you complain to @ShawnC13 for pasting (or macroing) on every single post he makes * I am happy to help, but I am not a MOD please do not include any personal info in a private message to me, click here to private message a Moderator *

 

(Not that I think there is anything wrong with it shawn, sorry for pointing out your message, its just the most common one in the forum)

 

 


Just for clarity on this as I was tagged.  That is my signature that appears on every post it is one of the additional features of being an Oracle.  It is not something I have to click on with every post I make.

 


I am happy to help, but I am not a Customer Support Agent please do not include any personal info in a message to me. Click HERE to create a trouble ticket through SIMon the Chatbot *

Anonymous
Not applicable

@RobertQc wrote:

 

I spent an afternoon picking the brain of a senior who was actually around when punch cards existed, and data was literally sorted and inserted into machines by hand. All we see is GUI now. The fundamental understanding he had was astounding.



Do not fold, bend, spindle or mutilate. Maybe some here will recognize that phrase. 🙂

 

As for the weighting of the values of participation here...we don't have factual information on how the powers that be go about granting the rewards. Maybe Oracles are in on it...dunno...but otherwise it's all conjecture. Maybe it's just post count. Maybe it's just Bravo's. Maybe it's just Solutions. Maybe they're all somehow weighted together and some result comes out where everyone is placed into their reward level. We don't know. We're just guessing.

 

I've already expressed thoughts on other points I've read along the way so no need to repeat.


@NDesai wrote:

@RobertQc wrote:

You might want to come out of your cave, there are no more dinosaurs, we can control fire now. We have electricity, tools, technology, automation, robots, re-usable molds with the ability to reproduce and are continusly finding methods of improvement on everything. If you don't want to take advantage of the benefits we have given ourselves and worked so hard to create thats your choice. Next you will say the wheel is stupid. Hate all you want but all you will do is fall behind.

 


Have you tried telling that to seniors? 

It looks like the only thing left for you is the magic hands that can literally generate paragraphs of info within a couple of mins. 

 


@NDesaiI respect and try to educate seniors by putting things in perspective without sugar coating it. I know at their age they will most likely get angry (at first) because thats what they do it is difficult to adjust, I get it. But if no one helps them clue in and just gives up on them they will die in the cave, but they have so much experience and knowledge and if they would consider new methods they could still be an extremely valuable part of our society and still give us young whipper snappers basic fundamentals that were long lost to the new generation. They usually rule things out before actually thinking about them and go so far as to even accuse people of "cheating" for using more efficient methods.

 

I spent an afternoon picking the brain of a senior who was actually around when punch cards existed, and data was literally sorted and inserted into machines by hand. All we see is GUI now. The fundamental understanding he had was astounding.

 

 


@NDesai wrote:


@RobertQc wrote:

 

Why don't you complain to @ShawnC13 for pasting (or macroing) on every single post he makes * I am happy to help, but I am not a MOD please do not include any personal info in a private message to me, click here to private message a Moderator *


That is totally something else lol You don't see mine below?


@NDesaiThat was on purpose. Do I need to explain why? You should be able to figure it out.

Folks, I think things are getting a little too personal and losing track of the purpose of this thread. PM is looking to see how best to improve participation by especially new customers, and wondering if the presentation of the leaderboard needs to be tweaked, or how best to apply community rewards to increase participation.

 

Understanding the reality of how bravos can and are dispensed, good or bad, or whatever your perspective, why not focus on the original intent? Is there a better way to tweak the use of the leaderboard and community rewards to increase participation?

 

(keeping in mind the limitations of this forum).


@RobertQc wrote:

You might want to come out of your cave, there are no more dinosaurs, we can control fire now. We have electricity, tools, technology, automation, robots, re-usable molds with the ability to reproduce and are continusly finding methods of improvement on everything. If you don't want to take advantage of the benefits we have given ourselves and worked so hard to create thats your choice. Next you will say the wheel is stupid. Hate all you want but all you will do is fall behind.

 


Have you tried telling that to seniors? 

It looks like the only thing left for you is the magic hands that can literally generate paragraphs of info within a couple of mins. 

 


@RobertQc wrote:

 

Why don't you complain to @ShawnC13 for pasting (or macroing) on every single post he makes * I am happy to help, but I am not a MOD please do not include any personal info in a private message to me, click here to private message a Moderator *


That is totally something else lol You don't see mine below?

______________________________________________________________________
I am not a mod. Do not send me private message with your personal info.
If you need to contact PM Customer Support Agent, send a Private Message.


@NDesai wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:

 

Macros etc..why not? The questions are so repetitive. Why type it all out yet again for the thousandths time. The response gets honed to be the best response over time.



@RobertQc wrote:
Why type the same 12 problems when you can copy and paste the answer, especially when the answer is well written and exactly answers the question you read by the poster.They created macro's for a reason. Mods do this all the time and I have personally received inaacurate copy+pasted responses from the mod team that didn't even read my request, in my experience the copy+pasted answers here by us are usually on par, and even people who vow to never copy+paste sometimes make a mistake and misread something by the customer. 

Really. We never thought of using macros? Why do you think some of us actually type the answer and many times in different way even when browsing from a phone? I wonder why we usually don't tell how our vacation went to friends in exact same words.

The more you do, higher the chance others will learn. Anyone using macro to copy/paste bunch of paragraphs tells me that they want to be really quick to reply. Many of us can guess why. 


 

@NDesaiI personally have never once used a macro, I have never even set one up. TBH I never even looked at them. I do however have many documents which I use to give a more complete set of questions, suggestions and instructions with links that has been perfected over time (still are being edited everyday), in the fastest way possible to be available for the next person who needs help and get back to whatever else I was doing.

 

Someone says where to buy sim? I copy and paste this

"-WalMart There are over 400 WalMart locations across Canada. Find the store closest to you by clicking here. (Sometimes walmart is selective about who they sell the sim card to, be warned, you may not get one here)

 -The Mobile Shop. There are nearly 200 The Mobile Shop locations across Canada, located in places like Loblaws and Real Canadian Superstore. Find the store closest to you by clicking here.

- Wow! Mobile boutique. Not very many but in a lot of major cities. Find the closest to you by clicking here.

- London Drugs operates 80 locations across 35 major markets. Check here to see if there is a location close to you Click here

- K Mobile has 21 stores, see if one is close to you Click Here! "

 

If I had to go and find each store locator again, organize it, it would take me probably 10 minutes and eat up a bunch of my data trying to find each store locator and I would probably have forgot at least one of them. What about copying a link ? https://www.themobileshop.ca/store-locator  Should I type that out each time too? Or should I actually type h t t p s : / / w w w . t h e m o .......

 

Being quick does not equal poor quality. Being quick equals efficiency.

 

I had a programming contract years ago where the firms software would compile all of the trades done in the day and produce a simple daily report on their exposure and risk. It would take all night and as time went on and more trading was done it got closer and closer to market open. When I was done the entire process ran in minutes.

 

You might want to come out of your cave, there are no more dinosaurs, we can control fire now. We have electricity, tools, technology, automation, robots, re-usable molds with the ability to reproduce and are continusly finding methods of improvement on everything. If you don't want to take advantage of the benefits we have given ourselves and worked so hard to create thats your choice. Next you will say the wheel is stupid. Hate all you want but all you will do is fall behind.

 

Why don't you complain to @ShawnC13 for pasting (or macroing) on every single post he makes * I am happy to help, but I am not a MOD please do not include any personal info in a private message to me, click here to private message a Moderator *

 

(Not that I think there is anything wrong with it shawn, sorry for pointing out your message, its just the most common one in the forum)

 

 

 

@6500K wrote:

PS: Please don't bravo me unless you really think I'm awesome.  Smiley Wink

 @6500K I bravo'd you because I do. 

6500K
Model Citizen / Citoyen Modèle

Maybe we should have a Bravo qualifier like:

  • Bravo for participation
  • Bravo for trying to help
  • Bravo for perseverance
  • Bravo for patience
  • Bravo for saying "I really like you and you are awesome"
  • Bravo for Community Rewards (this one counts for $$) haha

I just like giving bravos because I think it affirms the other person as a member of this community.  I personally don't care too much about the reward system because I'm winning on the cost savings of all the plans PM offers - and that's what really matters to me.

 

PS: Please don't bravo me unless you really think I'm awesome.  Smiley Wink


@Anonymous wrote:

 

Macros etc..why not? The questions are so repetitive. Why type it all out yet again for the thousandths time. The response gets honed to be the best response over time.



@RobertQc wrote:
Why type the same 12 problems when you can copy and paste the answer, especially when the answer is well written and exactly answers the question you read by the poster.They created macro's for a reason. Mods do this all the time and I have personally received inaacurate copy+pasted responses from the mod team that didn't even read my request, in my experience the copy+pasted answers here by us are usually on par, and even people who vow to never copy+paste sometimes make a mistake and misread something by the customer. 

Really. We never thought of using macros? Why do you think some of us actually type the answer and many times in different way even when browsing from a phone? I wonder why we usually don't tell how our vacation went to friends in exact same words.

The more you do, higher the chance others will learn. Anyone using macro to copy/paste bunch of paragraphs tells me that they want to be really quick to reply. Many of us can guess why. 

______________________________________________________________________
I am not a mod. Do not send me private message with your personal info.
If you need to contact PM Customer Support Agent, send a Private Message.


@Anonymous wrote:

@kav2001c wrote:

I personally am doubtful as certain posters are basically spamming the forums at this point (using macros and copy + pasting generic answers often without even reading the original question, then getting 50 bravos from their long time good buddies)

Wow. And YOU don't have "buddies"? There are cliques all over the place around here. Pretty sure you're in at least several.

If you don't want to spend the time to maximise your chances for rewards then that's up to you. It doesn't even take a whole lot to get into some rewards.

Macros etc..why not? The questions are so repetitive. Why type it all out yet again for the thousandths time. The response gets honed to be the best response over time.


@AnonymousIt sounds like he wants the rewards system to max out at his current participation level which is very low. Your last month 1093. His last year 1045. When you sit here for 16 hours in a day, putting in the time, you should be rewarded. Why type the same 12 problems when you can copy and paste the answer, especially when the answer is well written and exactly answers the question you read by the poster.They created macro's for a reason. Mods do this all the time and I have personally received inaacurate copy+pasted responses from the mod team that didn't even read my request, in my experience the copy+pasted answers here by us are usually on par, and even people who vow to never copy+paste sometimes make a mistake and misread something by the customer.

 

Food for thought. Kav has given both you, and I less than 10 bravo each. Ever. All time

Out of our 5000 posts, less than 20 deserved a thumbs up? But hey, they are his to give, or not give. Its his right. But to take away my ability to thumbs up good participation by others? Are you joking? It sounds more like sour grapes.

 

The only one that I can point out who has not been banned and resembles half of what he is talking about is SS, but he gets no bravo's for it and is WELL known, where are some other examples? Sometimes I see a bravo tossed around where the answer may not have been the best suggestion, but a bravo is yours to give, how you see fit. Even if the post you bravo'd wasn't the solution, you can still bravo for the effort put forth, like being here at 2am when no one else has responded for 30 mins. Some tests give you a mark for your name, some grades exist for participation even if its not perfect, thanks for showing up today and trying to help out, even tho your suggestion was not perfect, someone corrected you, you learned, next time you posted a better suggest / edited your macro. Bravo to you. 2 bravo's if I could

 

In the end- The ones that put in trash (worthless offtopic inaccurate material), get trash, if someone is gaming the system they should be called out / referred to PM staff and have them removed from this community.

pm-smayer97
Mayor / Maire

@kav2001c wrote:

@Chanah

 

Not missing anything you have hit the nail on the head

The issue is a very small percentage of posters make up an absurdly large percentage of posts

As such they clearly will always dominate ANY metric, be it bravos, solutions, or rewards

 

The powers that be are asking if the primary metric be a short term smaller number would it encourage newer posters to contribute more

 

I personally am doubtful as certain posters are basically spamming the forums at this point (using macros and copy + pasting generic answers often without even reading the original question, then getting 50 bravos from their long time good buddies)

 

Its absurd that some posters get more bravos than we have questions from members posted in a month

 


@Chanah wrote:

I'm confused. Pretty neutral on the bravos thing, and not sure how it would encourage community participation. As it stands, if people are around, there are likely to be five answers to a question (or one answer with five different wordings) in pretty short order. Those, I wouldn't bother to add another answer to because....why? Or is that what you want?

 

I usually keep pretty odd hours, so if there's an unanswered question and I know the answer, sure, I'll do it. But I don't see the point to adding another answer to a row of answers. Make sense? Or is that what you want so that people will get a couple dollars off their phone bill? 

 

What am I missing here?


 


This can get complicated very fast but like I pointed out, I think too much weight is placed on Bravos in particular because of the "buddy" effect...everyone patting everyone else on the back in the hopes of getting back. There is nothing totally wrong with that until it becomes the measure for rewards. 

 

This is why I proposed that Accepted Solutions would be a better measure of the quality of contributions. Though it has been pointed out that because this forum allows the OP to accept their own post as a solution, there is the potential for abuse. I say, if the OP is an actual solution, there is nothing wrong with that. But then how to monitor abuse. If there are few of these overall, this may be manageable. BUT then things can get combative if there is disagreement as to whether an answer is a real solution. Though I guess in those cases, the final arbiter could be a PM mod rather than just an oracle.

 

Don't get me wrong, users that post lots of good answers should be recognized somehow, and bravos are a limited metric to do that. 

 

Maybe the answer lies in creating either a combination metric OR better yet creating 2 reward metrics... a lower value one based on bravos (since they are so easy to give out and receive) and a weightier one for Accepted Solutions. 

 

Like I said before, there likely is not a perfect solution, as there will be pros and cons. It becomes a judgment call as to what PM sees as fair and encouraging to new customers to increase engagement and participation and how much effort it would take to implement.

 

Remember that PM has to implement this within the functional constraints and design of this forum, over which they have no control as it is not their platform.

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