Electric Cars

[ecowen]

Anyone out there have an opinion or advice on purchasing an electric vehicle?  We've researched a bit and test drove a Tesla and a Kona (Hundai).  We preferred the  Kona for comfort and visibility.  One detraction  of the Tesla is that in BC there is no Scrappit option. Any responses would be appreciated.

[ecowen]

Thanks for the link, but, fortunately it doesn't apply to our car because we have the latest battery management system and ours is not part of the recall.  It was built in July, 2020.

[Korth]

@Anonymous 

I don't buy into Elon Musk hype, so I wouldn't choose Tesla. And I wouldn't choose Chevy because they made the worst car I've ever owned.

But otherwise your mini-review was very informative. I'm waiting on Toyota's promised offerings.

[Anonymous]

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@Korth wrote:

@ecowen 

I'd be interested in your end-of-winter thoughts about this electric.

How does it respond to cold weather? Does it start up well and does it drive well on cold mornings? Does it actually cost less to buy electricity instead of buying fuel?

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I've been through a winter. Well...up to about December through to April, not. This winter I'll be able to experience it all.

Fast-charging from low starts at a little slower rate until it warms up the battery. Cabin heat of course sucks power.

There is no "start up". It's just on. Cold mornings are the same for tires and any lubricated moving parts. The electric motor doesn't care. Many EV's (Bolt and Kona amongst others) use battery temperature management to keep the batteries at a stable temperature that uses the main drive battery.

It absolutely costs less than buying fuel. While they may change, there are many free fast chargers around BC to enable some travelling around. Then there are a few charging networks. But there are plenty of what I call overnight chargers. Or the ability to charge up for a few hours free.

The main BC crown corporation utility charges per kwh delivered at 35 cents per. My Bolt has a 60kwh battery. So that would be $21 from empty to full. You don't generally show up at a fast charger on empty and you don't generally go all the way to full. The others charge for time. But then that crown corporation also operates the many free fast chargers.

The time ones charge like 16 - 18 per hour.

Many EV's have a taper down when fast charging to slow the flow of the electrons. The slower chargers have a very short taper near full.

Anyway, I'm excited for ecowen to have joined the EV world. I joined May 2019. Love it. Wouldn't go back.

I chose Chevy 'cuz.. well.. Chevy. I couldn't justify the cost of any Tesla's. But I certainly thank their buyers for disrupting the car industry and opening the door to making more "affordable" EV's possible.

[will13am]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Oh come on @will13am . So have Tesla models. So has the Bolt.

So have a gazillion dino fuel vehicles.

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This is a pretty big one.  We are not talking about a car here and there.  

[Korth]

@ecowen 

I'd be interested in your end-of-winter thoughts about this electric.

How does it respond to cold weather? Does it start up well and does it drive well on cold mornings? Does it actually cost less to buy electricity instead of buying fuel?

[Anonymous]

Oh come on @will13am . So have Tesla models. So has the Bolt.

So have a gazillion dino fuel vehicles.

[will13am]

Be wary that the Kona battery pack may be a fire hazard.  

https://insideevs.com/news/447944/kona-fires-hyundai-recall-25564-units/

[Anonymous]

 @ecowen 

Great to hear. Yeah that scrap it is a great deal. We scrapped a 1992 Geo Metro. We got the $5K BC before it went to 3. We got the Fed one the day it came on stream. $16,000.

We love our Chevy Bolt. We're in Kelowna now and just a one car household.

We can get from Kelowna to well into the Lower Mainland with one charge stop along the way. Y'gotta eat so it's fine to stop and charge.

[ecowen]

Update:  3 weeks ago we purchased our electric car in Kelowna, a Hyundai Kona Ultimate, ceramic blue with light grey interior.  Immediately after completing the purchase, we headed home along the Connector towards the Coquihalla and home to Surrey.  Kelowna had a Scrap it coupon which was essential to the deal.  I drove the Kona and my husband followed in our Vitara 2 door.  The drive was beautiful and flawless till we reached the snow sheds and proceeded down the "Smasher", and area of the Coquihalla Highway known for severe weather.  We had driving rain, high winds and new pavement with no lines painted yet.  At this time, I had no idea how to us the driving assists so it was me against the weather.  A terrible experience, but we made it home and have loved driving this car ever since.  It was an excellent choice.  Packed with features and an abundance of range.

[ecowen]

And, electric bikes!

[darlicious]

You people and your fancy energy hogging automobiles......pedal power all the way!!!!!

Edit: Hmmmmmm.....never would imagined back in February I would have jumped on the electric bandwagon but here we are.......   .......still pedal power all day! But with effortless hills baby!!!

[will13am]

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@Korth wrote:

EVs are priced artificially high. The money you'd save on fuel or energy is instead paid up front on the vehicle price. Because automotive industry, petroleum industry, spinoff and secondary industries, etc, clean efficient electrical power is just too much destabilizing conflict of interest.

And expect a hidden cost - the onboard batteries won't hold charge and will need full replacement (for around $5000-$10000+) every 100,000km or so.

Batteries are also weak in cold conditions. Electrics are effectively immobile for a few weeks every winter in BC.

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They are not priced artificially high.  Tesla is barely profitable.  The cost of the battery is high.  BEVs are still a very low volume car.  Until the volumes increase an order of magnitude, battery price will still be high.  

As for replacing the battery, likely more cost effective to replace the car.  Most of these batteries are placed along the bottom of the car and may not lend themselves to ease of R & R.  Also, I don't see 100,000 km as the replacement cycle.  They should last a lot longer if you can tolerate reduced distance.  I do know of someone who has a Tesla with 85 kwh battery that has 200000 km of use.  He claims to have virtually lost zero distance because each time there is a firmware update, he gains distance which masks the wear.  

If you have done your research you will find that BEVs do work in the cold just like ICE cars.  Cold weather causes a degradation in efficiency.  The battery is kept warm which consumes power and therefore lost distance.  The battery is finicky and needs to be operated in a narrow temperature range to prevent over heating and over cooling.  

Right now the biggest hurdle for BEVs is charging rate is too slow.  To address range anxiety, they stuff massive batteries in the car which adds weight.  More dead weight means less efficiency.  If charging rate can go to 500 kwh without battery damage, that would a game changer.  Level 1 chargers are getting close.

[Anonymous]

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@yanzhiqiang wrote:

Maybe buy Hybrid for now since the hybrid battery is much cheaper to replace. 

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That's because the batteries are much smaller so therefor obviously cheaper to replace if and when needed.

But then they have useless range when on battery. Then they simply run the engine. I like the pure battery method.

[yanzhiqiang]

Maybe buy Hybrid for now since the hybrid battery is much cheaper to replace. 

[Anonymous]

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@Korth wrote:

And expect a hidden cost - the onboard batteries won't hold charge and will need full replacement (for around $5000-$10000+) every 100,000km or so.

Batteries are also weak in cold conditions. Electrics are effectively immobile for a few weeks every winter in BC.

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This is simply not true. I see many EV's running around. I'm in the interior of BC too. Not the temperate south coast.

As for replacing...the CEO of GM said they over-engineered the Volt and Bolt and saying they may never die. Marketing hype maybe but that's still saying a lot.

Many Tesla's have well over those numbers and still going strong.

[Korth]

EVs are priced artificially high. The money you'd save on fuel or energy is instead paid up front on the vehicle price. Because automotive industry, petroleum industry, spinoff and secondary industries, etc, clean efficient electrical power is just too much destabilizing conflict of interest.

And expect a hidden cost - the onboard batteries won't hold charge and will need full replacement (for around $5000-$10000+) every 100,000km or so.

Batteries are also weak in cold conditions. Electrics are effectively immobile for a few weeks every winter in BC.

[will13am]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@will13am wrote:

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Interesting insights.  I would not get anything with a bow tie because it's a general motors product.  Inferior company producing inferior products, thriving on corporate welfare.

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Indeed...iOS/Android. But your favourite Toyota also takes subsidies. So you might not want to fling around the corporate welfare bit. They all have their hands out.

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At least the surviving OEMs don't take the money, spend it and then walk away. 

[Anonymous]

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@will13am wrote:

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Interesting insights.  I would not get anything with a bow tie because it's a general motors product.  Inferior company producing inferior products, thriving on corporate welfare.

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Indeed...iOS/Android. But your favourite Toyota also takes subsidies. So you might not want to fling around the corporate welfare bit. They all have their hands out.

[will13am]

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@Anonymous wrote:

I got the Chevy Bolt right after the feds came up with their rebate and before BC reduced theirs to $3k. Along with scrap-it made it $16k off. Fantastic.

Tesla's are more money than I could justify.

Kona's I thought the back seat had very little room. I also don't like the standy uppy screen. Then that it's a gas car retro fitted into an EV. Finally...it's  a Hyundai.

The Bolt was made as an EV from the start. It's Chevy. The screen is in the dash. Plenty of room in the back seat even with the front all the way back. As EV's go, entirely affordable. Really like the car.

Interesting insights.  I would not get anything with a bow tie because it's a general motors product.  Inferior company producing inferior products, thriving on corporate welfare.

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[Anonymous]

I got the Chevy Bolt right after the feds came up with their rebate and before BC reduced theirs to $3k. Along with scrap-it made it $16k off. Fantastic.

Tesla's are more money than I could justify.

Kona's I thought the back seat had very little room. I also don't like the standy uppy screen. Then that it's a gas car retro fitted into an EV. Finally...it's  a Hyundai.

The Bolt was made as an EV from the start. It's Chevy. The screen is in the dash. Plenty of room in the back seat even with the front all the way back. As EV's go, entirely affordable. Really like the car.

[will13am]

These two cars are pretty much like android vs apple.  Tesla is a cult type thing whereas Kona is a value proposition.  I don't own, will never own an iPhone.  I don't see myself owning a Tesla for that reason.  I am a Toyota guy and so I will wait for their electric offerings.