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A PM EV Chat Thread

Anonymous
Not applicable

As has come up on occasion here...I have the Chevy "Bolt EV". I just call it Bolt. Chevy already weirded things up naming it similarly to their earlier hybrid - Volt. Too similar speech method. What were they thinking. It's a great name but that's just silly.

 

Anyway: I had been thinking about EV's since the Leaf but the range wasn't useful living in a more rural area at the time. I had been eyeing the Bolt since it came out for 2017. Rated for 383km. Still expensive though certainly not like a Tesla. BC had a $5K rebate. Still expensive but a little better. BC car dealers also had the scrap-it rebate for up to $6K. Well ok maybe we need to look at this more. Then May '19 the feds came out with their $5K rebate. Alrighty then. I was in the door the morning it came out and scrapped my 1992 Geo Metro for six thousand dollars.

 

Love it. Not paying for gas all the time is awesome. Everybody has "gas" at home which of course is paid in the bill with all your other usage. In BC there are plenty of free chargers. The fast type along many highway corridors and the slower type at hotels or offered by towns and cities. Then there's an expanding network of other charging fast chargers.

 

It's also a little rocket. Even with my second car (now sold) one has to think about passing something on the highway. The Metro...fuggedaboudit. This little rocket boots out and flies around. Leaving people in the dust at lights still hasn't got old. You have to start a little easy at first otherwise you'd just sit there spinning tires there's so much power being applied to them.

 

The power regen going down hills and one pedal driving are amazing. One rarely needs to touch the brake pedal. Also some regen just slowing down.

 

If I were rich then maybe I would have looked more at a Tesla. But there's still the sort of warm comfort knowing the Bolt is good ol' Chevrolet.

 

Due to some circumstances, this will be my first winter using the car. Charging speed at fast chargers takes a bit of a hit as does range. You can maintain some control of power consumption but the batteries themselves take their own power to maintain their temperature. But we're still talking upwards to 300km.

 

As for fast charging traveling somewhere, yes you need to plan a little. So when you stop to charge then that's time to eat and stretch and other activities. It's just a shift in lifestyle of driving places. It's not hard. It's so doable in BC nowadays.

 

So that's my start.

114 REPLIES 114

srlawren
Retired Oracle / Oracle Retraité

@Anonymous yeah I think the future is more around quicker-charging vehicles and infrastructure rather than pack swaps, but it's a very intriguing interim solution, to be sure.

 

As far as "range anxiety", I would say that if you can afford a vehicle that's rated well above* your typical usage pattern and you have enough infrastructure near by to handle your edge cases and occasional extended trips (and this is becoming less and less of an issue), then range anxiety should rarely be an issue. 

 

* When I say well above, it's because the actual km's you'll get depend on a lot of things, such as but not limited to: how full was the battery when you departed?; what is the temperature outside?; did you precondition the battery and cabin?; did you have heat/AC on?; were you driving aggressively?; did you have extra people/cargo adding weight?; were you towing or using things like roof-mounted storage that add drag?; was your regenerative breaking off/low/high? and many other things.  (Note that many of these apply also to ICE vehicles.)


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Anonymous
Not applicable

@srlawren wrote:

@stevenanto wrote:

@will13am i beilieve there is a Chinese ev company that does these type of battery swaps. It might be nio or xpeng 


Yes, it's Nio.  And can be swapped out in as little as 3 mins.

 

[EDIT: battery swap starts around the 6:30 mark into the video]

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTsrDpsYHrw


 @srlawren : Wow. But that's a whole lotta infrastructure as compared to charging stations that look like gas pumps. And it would be more effective if the manufacturers would standardize the whole battery back and mounting thereof. But that's a swapping idea that I've had for a while to make travelling more time-saving rather than taking the breaks to charge. Even though ALL vehicles and passengers need to stop for SOME breaks.

srlawren
Retired Oracle / Oracle Retraité

@stevenanto wrote:

@will13am i beilieve there is a Chinese ev company that does these type of battery swaps. It might be nio or xpeng 


Yes, it's Nio.  And can be swapped out in as little as 3 mins.

 

[EDIT: battery swap starts around the 6:30 mark into the video]

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTsrDpsYHrw


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Anonymous
Not applicable

 @gpixel :I replied in the am I nuts thread.

@Anonymous were those tvs you purchased 60hz? have you tried 120hz or 240hz? 

stevenanto
Model Citizen / Citoyen Modèle

@Anonymous the charging at charging stations on road trips is something that we will all have to get used to in the near future, but in the distant future that might change. 

 

I myself like to arrive at the destination as quick as possible and right now our annual driving vacation is 850 km away. Either electric or gas we have to stop once. I usually drive through the night with the kids as it’s easier to manage.  For this type of trip I would also only have to stop once to charge an electric car like a Tesla, we have three kids so a small car won’t work for these type of trips, we have a van for that, but waiting for that cybertruck to come haha

stevenanto
Model Citizen / Citoyen Modèle

@will13am i beilieve there is a Chinese ev company that does these type of battery swaps. It might be nio or xpeng 

Anonymous
Not applicable

Ah yes "range anxiety". How far will a tank of gas get you? A standard car with normal consumption. Fill it to a pop-off. Drive it 'til what maybe 1/4 tank...1/8 tank. How far can you get? Not some super high-mileager and using hyper-miling techniques.

 

The only difference is "tank" fill-up time. Sleep, play, eat, walk, stretch. It's just a little different outlook. And only for going distances.

 

But I understand it. I was there before I took the plunge. Now it doesn't matter.


@Anonymous wrote:

 @will13am : I didn't say lithium. I'm with you on current tech. I was blue-skying on wouldn't it be nice if we could just swap some kind of power pack in a minute or three and get back on our way.


Even if other metals replace lithium, it is going to be challenger to ever see a hot swap option.  Metals are generally very dense and so even if the volumetric energy density for batteries match that of gasoline, there is still the density aspect that will make a battery heavy and impractical to hot swap.  Once breakthroughs occur to make charging faster and battery capacity larger, all the range anxiety concerns will dissipate.  

Anonymous
Not applicable

 @will13am : I didn't say lithium. I'm with you on current tech. I was blue-skying on wouldn't it be nice if we could just swap some kind of power pack in a minute or three and get back on our way.

The concept of hot swap will never materialized simply because lithium batteries are to big and heavy.  Lithium batteries weigh about 6 kg/kwh.  A smallish 50 kwh battery weights 300 kg.  Manufacturers can't take a 300kg mass and make it into a form that supports easy material handling.  Such a large proportion of a car's weight must be appropriately distributed.  

stevenanto
Model Citizen / Citoyen Modèle

@will13am @Anonymous 

 

solid state batteries are a ways away.quantumscape stock rocketed last week then just burned and crash. I don’t know for what reason. 

 

People le are also talking about aluminum air batteries. 

 

Tesla actually revealed over the summer that they are developing their own batteries now which will be more dense, smaller and go twice the range. If they make this work within the two to three year timeline this will be a big game changer. Less factory floor space, smaller machinery and so on. 

Anonymous
Not applicable

I don't have a problem with the fast charging time. That's the time you have a stretch and rest or eat etc. It's just a shift in your travel schedule. But for ICEV travelling, you still need to do those things. Particularly if you're with others.

And then yes while just doodling around home, you don't need to fast charge. Even if you can't plug in at your actual home. (obviously more relevant to urban living)

 

It would be my suggestion that EV's ought to have like a hot-swap battery pack method but still chargeable. Pull up to a station on your travels and swap yours out and pay like a deposit and you're away and then when you're just around home, keep charging it.


@stevenanto wrote:

@will13am good points that you bring up. Most people that do own the longer range EV has more than enough range to make it to and from work for a few days even during cold weather. In terms of the charging, yes it can take a while on the lower level ev but say a tesla model 3 it is quick and if you use a supercharger for 40 minutes it will give you 75% charge, thats like 375kms. 

 

Most of the EV owners dont use the superchargers too much they just plug in their car at home when they get back and let it charge overnight like their phone. However more and more workplaces are installing some sort of EV charger. For example we have four at our place. (we are 80 employees). My wife has one (they are 13 employees). 

 

The other reason for the switch to EV for us is the gasing up. You wont have to wait in line to gas up or pay, freeze in the cold, sometimes it could be a little out of the way. everyone has a reason.


Solid state batteries are probably not too far from commercial application.  There is a company called QuantumScape that is developing a solid state battery that claims to be ready for production in 2024.  The battery is supposed to be double the energy density of current lithium batteries.  I think the estimate energy density is 1 kw-h per litre of volume.  To put things into perspective, gasoline energy density is about 9 kw-h per litre.  Gas engines are only about 30 percent efficient.  EV motors are upwards of 90% efficiency.  The energy density gap to gasoline is closing.  The timing looks about right for me to replace the current cars.  

stevenanto
Model Citizen / Citoyen Modèle

@will13am good points that you bring up. Most people that do own the longer range EV has more than enough range to make it to and from work for a few days even during cold weather. In terms of the charging, yes it can take a while on the lower level ev but say a tesla model 3 it is quick and if you use a supercharger for 40 minutes it will give you 75% charge, thats like 375kms. 

 

Most of the EV owners dont use the superchargers too much they just plug in their car at home when they get back and let it charge overnight like their phone. However more and more workplaces are installing some sort of EV charger. For example we have four at our place. (we are 80 employees). My wife has one (they are 13 employees). 

 

The other reason for the switch to EV for us is the gasing up. You wont have to wait in line to gas up or pay, freeze in the cold, sometimes it could be a little out of the way. everyone has a reason.

will13am
Oracle
Oracle

Waiting for solid state battery technology to roll out before I am a buyer.  The weakness of BEVs at the moment is the battery and the slow charge rate.  Carrying a large battery and more deadweight is not a solution.  Nobody would have range anxiety if a top up can be done in 5-10 minutes like filling a tank of gas.  I have plenty of life left in the current cars to bridge to the new battery technology.  

stevenanto
Model Citizen / Citoyen Modèle

@BearFBI The standard range plus would fall under the under the incentives as the base model is under 55k

 

it has enough range for me too and totally worth it. As of right now there aren’t any other ev that come close in terms of range and price point. But we will see in two years if other competitors actually catch up. Who knows 

 

 

BearFBI
Deputy Mayor / Adjoint au Maire

@stevenanto Well thats not bad at all. The lowest range model still has enough range for me. I speced out a tesla Standard range plus with the white paint and the included wheels, I said no to full self driving and that totaled to $52,990 without the tax. I configured a 48 month lease with 16km and with the 5k Federal and 8K Quebec incentive placed as a down payment it comes out to $342.63 a month with Quebec tax included. 

 

Now thats a great price. Tesla seems to be the only EV manufacture with good leasing rates. All the other ones are extremely high. I would lease an EV because you dont have to worry about anything going bad in the long run. You also get to drive a new car every couple years. 

stevenanto
Model Citizen / Citoyen Modèle

@BearFBI Yes we get a total of 13k in Quebec combined. It is a no brainer in Quebec to get an EV since we pay the cheapest electricity costs in North America and one of the most elevated gas prices (I know vancouver has us beat)

 

We also have to keep in mind that you only get the 13K if the base model of the car is under 55K which for tesla it is just entry level of the model 3. So no 4wd and no long range. You can end up getting one that does 500km per charge with the incentives. 

BearFBI
Deputy Mayor / Adjoint au Maire

@Anonymous Wow 16k. Thats impressive. 

 

If only Ontario had better EV rebates or even any at all I would probaly consider buying an EV. Mabey even a Tesla considering how low the lease of a model 3 would be factoring in current Quebec rebates.

Anonymous
Not applicable

@BearFBI wrote:

People in Quebec have a real advantage with their extra 8k rebate.


Indeed it sucks for Ontarians that the current government got rid of theirs. But what all does QC have? 8+5 from the feds makes 13. BC with the scrap-it comes to 14. I got mine when BC was 5 to total 16.

BearFBI
Deputy Mayor / Adjoint au Maire

People in Quebec have a real advantage with their extra 8k rebate.

Anonymous
Not applicable

 @stevenanto : Didn't Tesla catch a bunch of flack for actually reducing range using OTA? I've also read about re-selling where the new buyer gets some features removed because they didn't pay for it or something. But I don't know all the facts. Other than the range-reduction.

It also just kinda feels like Apple and Kool-Aid to me. All the slick marketing, all the slick packaging. How's the actual product? As you say and I've also read about lots of complaints with mis-aligned body panels and such. But of course all products can have issues somewhere along the way.

 

But hey to each their own and their wallet. Tesla's too rich for my blood anyway.

stevenanto
Model Citizen / Citoyen Modèle

@Anonymous I love EV cars, and I will be buying two within the next two years. I have test driven a few of them over the years. I cant wait until we get them.

 

The first is the tesla cybertruck dual motor. I already put in my reservation the day of the reveal. At first like anyone else I looked at it and I said what is that? lol Then it kinda grew on me. The reason for getting this is because we do like to travel and go camping. There arent many EVs right now that can tow campers. The Model x can tow 5000lbs but its over 110K. the cybertruck will have the new battery tech in it. The other reason why I chose this truck is because tesla does do over the air updates their customer service seems at the top. yes their build quality can be troublesome but they to rectify that fairly well. 

 

For the second car right now it will be model 3 but it all depends on when the VW ID4 comes out in canada. But we have test drive the model s, x and 3 to date. The model 3 is the only that can qualify for the government incentives. 

 

In the winter all cars use more energy to move, including gas cars. One of the main reasons I want to go with a tesla is because they do those over the air updates and they are capable of increasing your range just like that, increasing your acceleration, and so on. 

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