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Employees Pitching 3G as LTE

tomaskingsley
Great Neighbour / Super Voisin

The staff at two separate Telus/Koodo/Public kiosks have tried to sell me on the fact that Public's 3G is really LTE, as they have no 3G network. They go on to say that it will display LTE on the phone as proof. And that it will not be throttled in any way. I have voice recordings of the employees at both shops, as I did not believe them and felt like they were duping me. 

Is this accurate? They were so sure of themselves and pressuring me to sign up right at that moment.

 

 

 

@CS_Agent

32 REPLIES 32

byronrayne
Good Citizen / Bon Citoyen

Thank you, I was wondering the same thing about the LTE showing up on the phone


@gblackma wrote:

According to the article that I read on the subject approximately 5.4 mbps @ShawnC13  in 2018.  I linked the article in another post above.  @computergeek541 , @Nezgar since 4g LTE is 10 times faster than 3g? Is 4g LTE throttled to 3 mbps, essentially 3g at 30 mbps? Thanks.


3G is some radio bands (which can carry some data), 4G is a whole bunch of radio bands (which can carry a whole bunch of data), LTE is faster 4G, LTE-A is fastest 4G.

 

But 3Mbps is 3Mbps no matter how it's arrives. The phone, radio, and network could all be capable of more (so much more) but if they force all your data to pour through a 3Mbps bottleneck then that's the speed you get.

4G/LTE vs 3G does have an advantage: multiple radio signals means multiple network packets means faster pings and lower latencies. 3Mbps is still 3Mbps but with less lag, it'll feel no different on downloads or video streaming, it'll feel snappier and more responsive when surfing sites or loading numerous little webpage objects.


@gblackma wrote:

According to the article that I read on the subject approximately 5.4 mbps @ShawnC13  in 2018.  I linked the article in another post above.  @computergeek541 , @Nezgar since 4g LTE is 10 times faster than 3g? Is 4g LTE throttled to 3 mbps, essentially 3g at 30 mbps? Thanks.


The numbers and how many times faster LTE can be compared to HSPA are approximations.

 

There is no throttle when connected to the HSPA network and the speeds can be anywhere from 0 to approximately 42Mbps.

 

 

 

 

According to the article that I read on the subject approximately 5.4 mbps @ShawnC13  in 2018.  I linked the article in another post above.  @computergeek541 , @Nezgar since 4g LTE is 10 times faster than 3g? Is 4g LTE throttled to 3 mbps, essentially 3g at 30 mbps? Thanks.


@gblackma wrote:

So capped is wrong @ShawnC13  and @computergeek541 . Are you saying that on average Canada wide you are getting 21 to  42 mbps ? If not, whats the average Canada wide 3g speed,on the Telus network? Is it even close to 9 mbps? 


@gblackma , I have gotten higher than 9 yes many times, it was your wording that said it was throttled to 9mbs and that I know was wrong.  What is the average Canada wide, not sure I haven't been able to test all across the country

 


I am happy to help, but I am not a Customer Support Agent please do not include any personal info in a message to me. Click HERE to create a trouble ticket through SIMon the Chatbot *

Repeated speedtests will gobble up your precious gigabytes in mere minutes, lol.

iPhoneUser
Model Citizen / Citoyen Modèle

@iPhoneUser wrote:

@Nezgar wrote:

@iPhoneUser wrote:

Never the less here is what my iPhone SE says and how it tested speed for my data. 

 

It appears the info told to the OP is bogus??

Or is it location dependent?

Or do I have to change settings?


In your case, your 3G connection is slower than throttled 4G LTE. You would probably benefit from enabling LTE if your phone is capable. You may be in an area with more users sharing the 3G tower compared to my tests.




So something learned!!! Not sure what though. I remember before i started with PM there was supposedly no LTE. And I did not turn it on when I changed to PM. See pics 2 on 3G and 2 on LTE. Readings from same spot in house and same web site. 3G is FASTER!!!! I will have to try in a different part of Maple Ridge as we are on the low side of Gilker Hill. See pics. 

 

B53222A7-480D-4F9B-92A3-9B5C7B372BAF.jpegAD9E8679-F56D-4CC0-B066-1C10B46B45EA.jpegE3BD1017-16D4-4309-96FA-31EA67648BA5.jpeg46FD4D4A-6E66-4EEC-8A88-C9C09D954897.jpeg

 

 

 

 


Speed is better in a different location...White Spot Maple Ridge.......but 3G once again is higher. Hmmmmmmm..

 

 

66053FF5-4CC9-47BA-848F-4AA1A791471B.jpeg6F726C62-EEE3-495F-9F5D-9456D6C0C818.jpeg


@gblackma wrote:

So capped is wrong @ShawnC13  and @computergeek541 . Are you saying that on average Canada wide you are getting 21 to  42 mbps ? If not, whats the average Canada wide 3g speed,on the Telus network? Is it even close to 9 mbps? 


The 21 and 42Mbps numbers are approximate maximum theoretical speeds on the HSPA network. They aren't averages nor is it a range - it's one or the other as the max speed.. The 42Mbps is only possible in areas that have DC-HSPA capability.  As for real-world speeds, some people get worse than 9Mbps, while I've been as high as 35Mbps. 


@Korth wrote:

I personally think VoLTE is overrated (from a tech perspective, not a sour grapes perspective).


I absolutely agree with you here, I was not implying that lack of VoLTE was anything worth pining over.

 

Having used VoLTE with Rogers, I can personally attest the voice qualitly is exactly the same as those used on 3G including AMR "Adaptive Multi-rate" (8Khz) and AMR-WB "Adaptive Multi-Rate Wideband" (16Khz).

 

The only benefits of VoLTE are network related:

- Faster call setup times, and no need to switch radio modes.

- Single network for voice & data. This will become more important as carriers push on to eventually retire 3G. We already have a few areas in canada with LTE coverage ONLY, meaning data only service for PM users at this time.

iPhoneUser
Model Citizen / Citoyen Modèle

@Nezgar wrote:

@iPhoneUser wrote:

Never the less here is what my iPhone SE says and how it tested speed for my data. 

 

It appears the info told to the OP is bogus??

Or is it location dependent?

Or do I have to change settings?


In your case, your 3G connection is slower than throttled 4G LTE. You would probably benefit from enabling LTE if your phone is capable. You may be in an area with more users sharing the 3G tower compared to my tests.




So something learned!!! Not sure what though. I remember before i started with PM there was supposedly no LTE. And I did not turn it on when I changed to PM. See pics 2 on 3G and 2 on LTE. Readings from same spot in house and same web site. 3G is FASTER!!!! I will have to try in a different part of Maple Ridge as we are on the low side of Gilker Hill. See pics. 

 

B53222A7-480D-4F9B-92A3-9B5C7B372BAF.jpegAD9E8679-F56D-4CC0-B066-1C10B46B45EA.jpegE3BD1017-16D4-4309-96FA-31EA67648BA5.jpeg46FD4D4A-6E66-4EEC-8A88-C9C09D954897.jpeg

 

 

 

 

I agree @Nezgar , it depends upon a variety of factors. I found an Article  that says that Telus essentially averages slightly over 5 mbps at 3g speed Canada wide. 


@Nezgar wrote:

There is no VoLTE (yet) so voice calls will always temporarily switch to 3G/HSPA/WCDMA mode.


Telus network does have VoLTE. But only on select (premium) phones, only on select (premium) plans and contracts, only on Telus Mobile and Koodo Mobile. Not on Public Mobile. VoLTE is commoditized, they'll keep selling it at higher prices as long as people keep buying it at higher prices.

 

However, non-VoLTE Telus/Koodo/Public customers still get what used to be marketed as "Wideband Voice" or "HD Voice". It uses 3G radio bands reserved for us lowly non-premium peons, but it's still decidedly adequate voice/calling service.

 

I personally think VoLTE is overrated (from a tech perspective, not a sour grapes perspective). Especially since equal or better call quality can be supported or emulated by any number of voice-over-data apps. (Apps which Public Mobile customers can run off native 3G data or off LTE-based "3G" data.)

 

Full-duplex (two way) voice audio uses much, much, much less than Public Mobile's 3000kbps throttled data rates - especially with all the fancy voice codec hardware built into handheld and network devices. Even lossless uncompressed (raw PCM) HD-quality CD audio at highest spectrum range, highest sampling rates, and highest bit resolution can't approach 3000kbps. Any additional fidelity VoLTE might provide vs HD Voice over 3G is basically beyond the threshold of human hearing (unless there's network latencies, dropped packets, and other malfunctions - which can affect 3G or 4G/LTE in all the same ways.) 


@gblackma wrote:

Are you saying that on average Canada wide you are getting 21 to  42 mbps ? If not, whats the average Canada wide 3g speed,on the Telus network? Is it even close to 9 mbps? 


21 and 42mbps are the maximum speeds that are shared by all users of a 3G channel. Depending how many active users there are sharing the channel, you will get some portion of that. IPhoneUser shared a screenshot above he was getting less than 3mbps, and myself I am getting around 10.

 

LTE channals have a total capacity of 400mbps or higher, so it's much more throughput to split up amongst users.

So capped is wrong @ShawnC13  and @computergeek541 . Are you saying that on average Canada wide you are getting 21 to  42 mbps ? If not, whats the average Canada wide 3g speed,on the Telus network? Is it even close to 9 mbps? 


@iPhoneUser wrote:

Never the less here is what my iPhone SE says and how it tested speed for my data. 

 

It appears the info told to the OP is bogus??

Or is it location dependent?

Or do I have to change settings?


In your case, your 3G connection is slower than throttled 4G LTE. You would probably benefit from enabling LTE if your phone is capable. You may be in an area with more users sharing the 3G tower compared to my tests.

CMATT78
Good Citizen / Bon Citoyen

Amazing how much you can learn about 3G/4G/LTE Etc.etc. just by reading the comments on this issue I didn't know how any of this worked beforehand  

iPhoneUser
Model Citizen / Citoyen Modèle

@ShawnC13 wrote:

@gblackma wrote:

@tomaskingsley 



@gblackma  say what?!?!?!  Where is this stated anywhere on this site from someone that is a PM employee?  Or even people that have been using the service for a long time.  I have tested the 3G and it is not capped at 9mbs

 

I think I am off topic here, but not sure. 

I don’t think the OP really meant PM staff (not employees) but may have meant third party representatives for Telus and Koodo thus PM. I assume there are a very few manned PM kiosks by either PM or contracted out. 

 

I dislike when some tells ME what I am thinking but this “may” be what the OP meant??


@gblackma wrote:

@tomaskingsley Its 3g throttled to 9 mbps  and 4g  lte throttled to 3 mbps. 


@tomaskingsley wrote:

The staff at two separate Telus/Koodo/Public kiosks have tried to sell me on the fact that Public's 3G is really LTE, as they have no 3G network. They go on to say that it will display LTE on the phone as proof. And that it will not be throttled in any way. I have voice recordings of the employees at both shops, as I did not believe them and felt like they were duping me. 

Is this accurate? They were so sure of themselves and pressuring me to sign up right at that moment.

 

 

 

@CS_Agent


 


@gblackma  say what?!?!?!  Where is this stated anywhere on this site from someone that is a PM employee?  Or even people that have been using the service for a long time.  I have tested the 3G and it is not capped at 9mbs

 


I am happy to help, but I am not a Customer Support Agent please do not include any personal info in a message to me. Click HERE to create a trouble ticket through SIMon the Chatbot *

srlawren
Retired Oracle / Oracle Retraité

@computergeek541 wrote:

@gblackma wrote:

@tomaskingsley Its 3g throttled to 9 mbps 


You are correct about the LTE being throttled to 3Mbps on 3g plans.

 

However, you are not correct about connections to the 3g network being throttled to 9Mbps.  There is absolutely no throttle on the HSPA+(3g) network, and it's capable (in theory) of up to either 21Mbps or 42Mbps, depending on the area.  Much higher than 9Mbps is possible, and it doesn't matter which plan you're on.

 

 


@gblackma please stop making things up and speaking authoritatively with incorrect information.  


>>> ALERT: I am not a moderator. For account or activation assistance, please click here.


@gblackma wrote:

@tomaskingsley Its 3g throttled to 9 mbps 


You are correct about the LTE being throttled to 3Mbps on 3g plans.

 

However, you are not correct about connections to the 3g network being throttled to 9Mbps.  There is absolutely no throttle on the HSPA+(3g) network, and it's capable (in theory) of up to either 21Mbps or 42Mbps, depending on the area.  Much higher than 9Mbps is possible, and it doesn't matter which plan you're on.

 

 

popping
Retired Oracle / Oracle Retraité

Why are we still using 3G to described what PM plan use?

3G and LTE are 2 different cellular signals.

 

What PM is offering is

1.  Full 3G speed without speed throttling

and

2.  LTE throttled ti max 3Mbps.

 

Please note that 3G is not the same as LTE capped to 3Mbps. 

3G is not the same as  3Mbps as 3G is a cellular signal and 3Mbps is data speed.  

 

PM plans are using 3G signal.for voice call.  Data are provided by 3G and LTE. 

kselmak
Mayor / Maire

I've never heard anything like that

Most of the time complaints are the opposite, people being told that it's too slow or no customer service and look at virgin/chatr/lucky/... everybody is much happier there.

Well those statements are not correct ( both your case and the opposite)

 

But it makes me think

It's there something we didn't know?

I'm still heartbroken that Dave left, I'm genuinely sad the whole day. I like new people on board too, but change like this is anyways hard

I wander if they will change something with all this 5g and now mvno hearings...

iPhoneUser
Model Citizen / Citoyen Modèle

I don’t profess to know diddly about 3G, Data, LTE, 4G, 5G or the dangers of Huawei equipment providing 5G. Although I am suspect of the latter as not being a good idea.

 

But I do like the 250mb that I rarely use and appreciate the convenience of it. 

 

Never the less here is what my iPhone SE says and how it tested speed for my data. 

 

It appears the info told to the OP is bogus??

Or is it location dependent?

Or do I have to change settings?

 

 

0C4BC7D8-54BB-430E-87E1-512FBCF71AC3.jpeg

Nezgar
Mayor / Maire

Here's screenshots of speed tests... Both H+ and LTE as you can see in the header bars, and upload/download both visible:

 

hspa11.pnglte3.png

YVR
Model Citizen / Citoyen Modèle

@tomaskingsley 

 

as others have said, public uses LTE bands and the speed is throlled down to 3g speeds.  

Here is that in Public Mobiles words as conditions when describing plans

4 - Plans with 4G LTE data can access maximum LTE download speeds (manufacturer rated at up to 900 Mbps; expected average speeds 12-250 Mbps). Plans with 3G data may reach download speeds of up to 3 Mbps, with the coverage and reliability of the LTE network. Speed and signal strength may vary with your device, configuration, Internet traffic, environmental conditions, applicable network management and other factors. For a description of Public Mobile’s network management practices, please see https://www.publicmobile.ca/pdfs/WirelessVideoExperience_Optimization.pdf.

Compatible device required. Data usage is rounded up each session to the nearest 10KB. Data service on BlackBerry smartphones requires the BlackBerry 10 operating system.

Luddite
Oracle
Oracle

@tomaskingsley wrote:

The staff at two separate Telus/Koodo/Public kiosks have tried to sell me on the fact that Public's 3G is really LTE, as they have no 3G network. They go on to say that it will display LTE on the phone as proof. And that it will not be throttled in any way. I have voice recordings of the employees at both shops, as I did not believe them and felt like they were duping me. 

Is this accurate? They were so sure of themselves and pressuring me to sign up right at that moment.

 

@CS_Agent


@tomaskingsley Both statements in red are false. On the other hand, those employees may believe what they said. Many people are unaware of the gaps in their knowledge, yet sound knowledgeable.

Here you are on a bicycle getting info from the Telus/Koodo birds. Robot wink

 

knowledge gap.gif

 


>>> ALERT: I am not a CSA. Je ne suis pas un Agent du soutien à la clientèle.

It's LTE throttled to 3mbs but it does show LTE on phone like screenshot below.

Screenshot_20200228_173508.jpg

 

hairbag1
Mayor / Maire

@tomaskingsley wrote:

The staff at two separate Telus/Koodo/Public kiosks have tried to sell me on the fact that Public's 3G is really LTE, as they have no 3G network. They go on to say that it will display LTE on the phone as proof. And that it will not be throttled in any way. I have voice recordings of the employees at both shops, as I did not believe them and felt like they were duping me. 

Is this accurate? They were so sure of themselves and pressuring me to sign up right at that moment.

 

 

 

@CS_Agent


It'll show on your phone as LTE but as suggested by others...is throttled. I've used it for 2 yrs and am happy with the speeds, but I'm not listening to streaming music or movies either.

You can maybe give it a try to see if it fits your lifestyle. PM uses Telus backbone so you know it's stable.Plans and is much more affordable without any hidden fees later on.

I can vouch for PM.

Nezgar
Mayor / Maire

@tomaskingsley wrote:

The staff at two separate Telus/Koodo/Public kiosks have tried to sell me on the fact that Public's 3G is really LTE, as they have no 3G network. They go on to say that it will display LTE on the phone as proof. And that it will not be throttled in any way. I have voice recordings of the employees at both shops, as I did not believe them and felt like they were duping me. 

Is this accurate? They were so sure of themselves and pressuring me to sign up right at that moment.


Public Mobile runs on Telus' network, which technically operates both 3G (HSPA/WCDMA) and LTE protocols over the air.

 

Both networks will work for data. LTE is throttled to 3mbps, which is what they market as "3G speeds" - but if you force your phone to use real 3G (HSPA/WCDMA) it is not throttled, and you may find it's actually faster in a speed test, sometimes 10mbps+, but latency may be more variable.

 

In everyday use, I doubt you'll notice any practical difference between the two, and it's better to leave it autoselect between 3G and LTE so you have the best coverage. the 3mbps compared to flagship carriers unthrottled LTE is also not noticeable for everyday use, and is quite an acceptable compromise for the value.

 

There is no VoLTE (yet) so voice calls will always temporarily switch to 3G/HSPA/WCDMA mode.

Staliger
Mayor / Maire

@tomaskingsley wrote:

The staff at two separate Telus/Koodo/Public kiosks have tried to sell me on the fact that Public's 3G is really LTE, as they have no 3G network. They go on to say that it will display LTE on the phone as proof. And that it will not be throttled in any way. I have voice recordings of the employees at both shops, as I did not believe them and felt like they were duping me. 

Is this accurate? They were so sure of themselves and pressuring me to sign up right at that moment.

 

 

 

@CS_Agent


@tomaskingsley That's interesting, mine was opposite - he warned me that it is 4G throttled to 3G speedsSmiley Very Happy

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