Mobility UMTS frequencies (tech-savvy discussion)

[chrstyles]

If anyone who has used this map http://www.ertyu.org/steven_nikkel/cancellsites.html has noticed, on the recent map update there has been a significant reduction in the amount of Telus cell sites that were once displayed before, noticeably in Ontario and some other places. However, Telus continues to maintain a strong amount of frequency in the Montreal area and most of western Canada. 

Using the "field test" mode on my phone on both a Bell prepaid and Public Mobile SIM card, I confirmed that the cell sites my phone is connecting to (in Toronto) is the same one as the Bell network, which likely means that Bell is now running most of the Bellus network in Toronto and most parts of Ontario; however there are still some 1900 and 2100 Mhz towers in the downtown Toronto area and at the Telus Consillium Place and Laird Drive switching offices/data centers. While the Telus network may share the same RAN as Bell Mobility, the backend network is managed by Telus and likewise with Bell's network in the west. You may also notice that a large amount of Bell sites have gone missing in western Canada as well. I contacted Steven Nikkel (the cell towers map creator) about this to find he is not aware of the reason for this cell site reduction. 

Anyway, I had a few questions for any tech-savvy community members. While I'm not sure why Telus and Bell are reducing their cell sites and eliminating the mix of Bell and Telus towers in the east/west, does this mean that either way, Telus/PM customers will have access to Bell's 700 Mhz LTE in Toronto/Ontario (where Telus does not license any 700 Mhz at this time) or only access to PCS 1900 Mhz, which is usually what my phone is connected to. I think that it would only make sense to share the 700 Mhz frequency as well since Rogers currently seems to be the top player when it comes to frequencies. 

Without the network sharing agreement, the below photos would depict an unrealistic network coverage map, since the amount of towers would not be enough to support such a robust and widely-used network.

[Korth]

Comparisons have been made for cellphone prices in Canada vs the rest of the world, and it turns out that Canadian cellphone providers suck and Canadians pay a lot more to get a lot less, lol.

Just a couple of the many interesting links about this, here and here.

[ckl]

@Korth The only way to foster competition is to open up the big 3 networks to new entrants at wholesale rates. Similar to what happened with wholesale landline internet rates. Wind would have actually been successful if they were allowed to roam on the big 3 networks like they can with t-mobile in the US. They would have eliminated their coverage holes while they expanded their own home grown network. They would have obtained more subscribers to fund the purchase or more spectrum in the future.

You see, the problem is wireless spectrum. Once it's auctioned off and licensed, it's gone. Currently, there are NO spectrum licenses available for anybody to use. So even if Google, for example, wanted to come in a build their own network, they can't! They'd have to purchase an existing company with licenses or wait until the next 600Mhz auction comes around.

There are so many ways one can do this and not destroy the big 3 while doing it. But one thing is for sure, the big 3 need to open up their networks to competition with reasonable wholesale rates similar to the rest of the world. What would be reasonable rates similar to the rest of the world? Who knows? But when I was with Wind, I had the US roaming option and "unlimited" everything for $40. How has wind managed to negotiate such great roaming rates in the US but unable to do so with the big 3? Therein lies the answer.

[Korth]

@chrstyles

I agree with your opinion, although I think of RF spectrum as a "limited resource" instead of a "natural resource" - it can be used and abused and consumed and cluttered, but it can never be depleted or destroyed.  It can't be "owned" but it certainly must be "controlled" because otherwise completely unregulated use (coupled with rampant selfish consumerism) would render it useless to all.

I think the blame for wireless monopoly (or rather oligopoly) in Canada can ultimately be traced to the largest wireless providers in Canada - namely Rogers, Telus, and Bell.  They are the ones who've somehow bought the regulations which prohibit other companies from competing in Canada.

From a consumer standpoint, a barrage of US-based mobile carriers installing their own hardware in our cities and opening up shop could only be a good thing.  More supply for fixed demand means lower prices, more piranhas wanting a bite means fiercer competition to obtain and maintain customer loyalty.

[chrstyles]

@Korth 

Interesting note, I wasn't aware of that.

It's true that data access is monetized far more than traditional cellular services; but I would assume some people knew from the start that cellular service would be used for more than calling. Also, I do agree that technological development in this industry is highly limited by the government and its "ownership" of the frequency. Since RF is considered a natural resource, the government, in thesis, does own it. In my own opinion, I think that while the CRTC seems to be interested in introducing more competition in the market, it also [Industry Canada] is the one responsible for the continuation of the wireless monopoly in Canada. Naturally, the most profitable companies with the most backing will prevail while other cell companies (orange comes to mind) with limited RF licensing will not be able to effectively develop their networks. Luckily, we have companies like PM that are providing a highly economical and reliable service that people need.

[Korth]

Government legislation aims to reduce the number of cellular towers across the country. 700MHz towers tend to be taller (>15m height) which makes them an "eyesore" and limits where they can be placed (thus their density) in urban areas, they can broadcast over a greater range than higher-frequency bands so fewer are required to provide "adequate" coverage over any given area, and the providers are generally shifting their focus towards higher frequency hardware because it offers the greater digital speeds the bulk of their customers are demanding.  Telus and Bell are always phasing out "redundant" towers then sharing some towers for mutual benefit, their business model emphasizes minimizing infrastructure costs while maximizing mobile data access (because mobile data is monetized far more than mobile voice/txt communications).  As usual, proposed legislations and regulations are being "voluntarily" enforced in growing regions of Ontario and/or Quebec - the two provinces represent the overwhelming majority of Canadian population and revenues - and Telus/Bell/etc tend to willingly pioneer or champion new paradigms which introduce legal or technical barriers to competitors or lock out startups.

I think your question is less about technical and more about legal, lol.  Technology is always limited by money, while laws are written to limit who is allowed or disallowed to spend money on technology.

[PBForMe]

Have the towers themselves just gone dark, or have they been transferred to Bell sites?

I too remember lots of Telus towers in the GTA but now I'm seeing almost nothing. Interesting indeed. 

If I had to speculate it seems they've swapped towers in certain provinces for some reason, but strange that there are some Telus sites still remaining in Ontario, just very little... not enough for any kind of coverage so why keep them.

Mysterious!  

[imm1304]

Thanks @srlawren. I am learning from my senior oracles 😉

[srlawren]

Great explanation, @imm1304!  An oracle, you truly are!

[imm1304 · Accepted solution]

Hi @chrstyles!

My simplistic understanding is that all HSPA/LTE towers to the west of the Ontario/Manitoba border are Telus. East from there are Bell towers.  It would not matter if you have a Telus/Koodo/PM, Bell/Virgin device, as long as it's an HSPA device, you get the same network, using the same towers, with the same coverage.

So, I would think that in Toronto, we would have access to the 700MHz LTE 

FYI:  Telus and Bell towers are set up as MOCN (Multiple Operator Core Network) to share the same RAN (Radio Access Network). 

PM and Telus Prepaid lose out in places like Manitoba where special arrangements with the local carrier MTS have not been made available to the prepaid side of Telus. This is reflected as large gap in the coverage map north of Winnipeg in Manitoba.  The same region on Telus coverage map would show greater coverage in Manitoba.