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Evil like Apple?

will13am
Oracle
Oracle

@srlawren , any comments?   I really don't like manufactures impeding use if third party accessories.  One plus has become unaffordable for me.  They are adding more reasons for me to look elsewhere.  

 

https://www.androidauthority.com/oneplus-6t-original-charger-954419/

22 REPLIES 22

Wire gauge, length and material makes a big difference when carrying DC voltage. USB has extremely limited distances because of the voltage drop in trash 28awg cables you buy at retail stores

 

Over 10 foot with even a good quality 28AWG copper wire carrying 5 volt 2 amp you get over 50% voltage drop! That's right, your 5volts is only going to be 2.4volts, and lets be honest most of them lie and use aluminum or claim its copper but its really CCA (copper clad aluminium) look for OFC + AWG. When you actually get aluminum over 10 feet your 5 volts is now 0.91volts.

 

Go to sayal or an electronics hobby store and buy a couple good quality usb ends (with copper or a quality precious metal connector not that junk shiny aluminum china stuff, solder your own 14awg solid or stranded whatever your preference or even thicker awg wire on and you won't have problems anymore. You are now looking at a 2% voltage drop. That same 10 foot extension cord you just made is going to be feeding your device 4.9volts, then with your home made usb extension cord that is good for life, will never break, you can use whatever standard 3 or 6 foot cable came with your device

 

 

 

srlawren
Retired Oracle / Oracle Retraité

@stonechucker wrote:

 

I can't buy a long enough cable to use and charge my device from Apple directly- so Anker has gotten by business for the last 3 (of six years) on my iPadAir.


@stonechucker let's hope Apple continue the trend of moving to USB-C like they have with the 2018 iPad Pros.  Though, current rumours suggest the 2019 iPhones will be stucking with Lightning, so this may be a long, drawn-out fix unfortunately.


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@will13am wrote:

@stonechucker wrote:

@will13am@srlawren, I'm currently replacing lightning cables for my iPadAir for the 4th time, as the standard cables from Apple are not long enough to charge and use the device at the same time.

 

I purchase longer cables (10 ft) that are Certified with the MFi standard from Apple, however even these go thru periods of issues when iOS updates are applied, and my cables start to fail until an update is re-applied.

 

I can't buy a long enough cable to use and charge my device from Apple directly- so Anker has gotten by business for the last 3 (of six years) on my iPadAir.

 

 


Ten feet is getting pretty long for a charging cable.  I would imagine the amount of excess voltage is not enough to accommodate the losses.  I tried using a 10 foot micro USB cable.  The charge rate is so low that you need to turn the device off to get net power going into the battery. 


The charge rate is slightly diminished, however, the ability to continue using the charge cable to charge (from the 12V original adapter) is more than useful when I don't want to sit in front of a keyboard.


@stonechucker wrote:

@will13am@srlawren, I'm currently replacing lightning cables for my iPadAir for the 4th time, as the standard cables from Apple are not long enough to charge and use the device at the same time.

 

I purchase longer cables (10 ft) that are Certified with the MFi standard from Apple, however even these go thru periods of issues when iOS updates are applied, and my cables start to fail until an update is re-applied.

 

I can't buy a long enough cable to use and charge my device from Apple directly- so Anker has gotten by business for the last 3 (of six years) on my iPadAir.

 

 


Ten feet is getting pretty long for a charging cable.  I would imagine the amount of excess voltage is not enough to accommodate the losses.  I tried using a 10 foot micro USB cable.  The charge rate is so low that you need to turn the device off to get net power going into the battery. 

@will13am@srlawren, I'm currently replacing lightning cables for my iPadAir for the 4th time, as the standard cables from Apple are not long enough to charge and use the device at the same time.

 

I purchase longer cables (10 ft) that are Certified with the MFi standard from Apple, however even these go thru periods of issues when iOS updates are applied, and my cables start to fail until an update is re-applied.

 

I can't buy a long enough cable to use and charge my device from Apple directly- so Anker has gotten by business for the last 3 (of six years) on my iPadAir.

 

 

srlawren
Retired Oracle / Oracle Retraité

@will13am wrote:


I am just teasing with the title as I know that you are a one plus fanboy.  They are nowhere near as evil as Apple. 


@will13am guilty as charged!  I'm not normally prone to being a fanboy, but I have been quite smitten with OnePlus since the 3 for sure. 


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@srlawren wrote:

@will13am wrote:


The fragmentation with proprietary accessories serve to line the pockets of the oems in the short term but hurt the consumer and in the end oems.  The auto industry is far more mature and a good benchmark for other industries.  Generic accessories and parts are universal to the extent possible. 


@will13am I understand your point of view here and agree.  Personally, I don't see what OnePlus does as being totally evil.  Why?  Well, the phone still uses industry standard USB type C connection, and you can charge it with any power brick and USB-C cable (or USB-B with adapter).  They have done the industry standard as the baseline (unlike Apple which uses proprietary Lightning cable), and then offer up a proprietary fast charger that has advantages over the more standardized USB Power Delivery or Qualcomm Quick Charge standards.  I do wish they had those as a fallback, since the SoC is capable, but it's not the end of the world for me personally.  


I am just teasing with the title as I know that you are a one plus fanboy.  They are nowhere near as evil as Apple. 

srlawren
Retired Oracle / Oracle Retraité

@will13am wrote:


The fragmentation with proprietary accessories serve to line the pockets of the oems in the short term but hurt the consumer and in the end oems.  The auto industry is far more mature and a good benchmark for other industries.  Generic accessories and parts are universal to the extent possible. 


@will13am I understand your point of view here and agree.  Personally, I don't see what OnePlus does as being totally evil.  Why?  Well, the phone still uses industry standard USB type C connection, and you can charge it with any power brick and USB-C cable (or USB-B with adapter).  They have done the industry standard as the baseline (unlike Apple which uses proprietary Lightning cable), and then offer up a proprietary fast charger that has advantages over the more standardized USB Power Delivery or Qualcomm Quick Charge standards.  I do wish they had those as a fallback, since the SoC is capable, but it's not the end of the world for me personally.  


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@srlawren wrote:

@will13am  was out of town.  Yes this is one drawback of OnePlus's proprietary charging system.  The reason they are not as evil as Apple (sorry iFans) is that: they. include. the fast charger. in. the box.  Apple doesn't and forces you to buy one for a lot of money if you want to fast charge.  An 18W fast charger from apple is $39 CAD and none is included in the box: https://www.apple.com/ca/shop/product/MU7T2LL/A/18w-usb-c-power-adapter?fnode=97 (edit: fixed link)

 

OnePlus includes the fast charger in the box and no additional purchases are necssary unless you want to have extras.  I don't know of any (someone correct me if I'm wrong) phone models that come with more than 1 fast charger in the box.  If you want an additional 20W OnePlus charger, it's $27 CAD https://www.oneplus.com/ca_en/oneplus-fast-charge-power-adapter . I don't know pricing on the (currently MacLaren-edition exclusive) 30W charger though.

 

Yes it's annoying that you can't fallback on Qualcomm QuickCharge X, but it's a trade-off I gladly make given the beneifts such as some of the fastest charging (though there are newer tech that are faster, including from Huawei and Oppo's Super VOOC), lower temperature in the phone, little to no performance throttling while charging even at peak speeds.  I have noticed that even charging from a Scosche battery pack (the USB-C on that uses their Magic Mount magnetic system) seems to go pretty quickly, though I profess I don't know what wattage it operates at with my 5T.


The fragmentation with proprietary accessories serve to line the pockets of the oems in the short term but hurt the consumer and in the end oems.  The auto industry is far more mature and a good benchmark for other industries.  Generic accessories and parts are universal to the extent possible. 

srlawren
Retired Oracle / Oracle Retraité

I forgot to mention cables. I don't know if the lightning cable that comes in an iPhone box works with the 18W adapter, but let's assume it does.  If you wanted an additional cable, they appear to be available in lengths of 0.5m for $25 or 2m for $39.

 

With a OnePlus device, you do need to use one of their cables as well as their power brick to fast charge.  1m costs $22, and 1.5m costs $27.  You can buy a charger and cable bundled for $47 for 1m and $52 for 1.5m.  I don't know if Apple sells any bundles but they may.  EDIT: in the box is the fast charger and a 1m cable.  

 

Full disclosure, I own two 1m cable-and-charger combos (one each came with my OP3 and my OP5T) and also purchased an extra 1.5m cable-and-charger combo a while after getting my OP3 but before my 5T. I keep one of the 1m combox in my home office, another in my bathroom as I don't charge overnight but instead charge it to full while I'm getting ready in the morning, and I take the 1.5m combo with me in my backpack when I go to work, or in my carry-on when I travel.


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srlawren
Retired Oracle / Oracle Retraité

@will13am  was out of town.  Yes this is one drawback of OnePlus's proprietary charging system.  The reason they are not as evil as Apple (sorry iFans) is that: they. include. the fast charger. in. the box.  Apple doesn't and forces you to buy one for a lot of money if you want to fast charge.  An 18W fast charger from apple is $39 CAD and none is included in the box: https://www.apple.com/ca/shop/product/MU7T2LL/A/18w-usb-c-power-adapter?fnode=97 (edit: fixed link)

 

OnePlus includes the fast charger in the box and no additional purchases are necssary unless you want to have extras.  I don't know of any (someone correct me if I'm wrong) phone models that come with more than 1 fast charger in the box.  If you want an additional 20W OnePlus charger, it's $27 CAD https://www.oneplus.com/ca_en/oneplus-fast-charge-power-adapter . I don't know pricing on the (currently MacLaren-edition exclusive) 30W charger though.

 

Yes it's annoying that you can't fallback on Qualcomm QuickCharge X, but it's a trade-off I gladly make given the beneifts such as some of the fastest charging (though there are newer tech that are faster, including from Huawei and Oppo's Super VOOC), lower temperature in the phone, little to no performance throttling while charging even at peak speeds.  I have noticed that even charging from a Scosche battery pack (the USB-C on that uses their Magic Mount magnetic system) seems to go pretty quickly, though I profess I don't know what wattage it operates at with my 5T.


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Anonymous
Not applicable

@will13am wrote:

Great discussion so far.  If I choose to buy $1 unrated called, that's my problem.  Generally I just don't like the way the tech business stifles advancement by forcing each other to reinvent the wheel so to speak.  Does Ferrari shill their own tires that if not used will prevent the car from shifting past second gear?  


Which is why I was drawn to your subject line 🙂

I have nothing to do with Apple for those reasons.

A special charging cable just for them. Just 'cause they're special. The wart is fine with the standard USB connector.

The $1 cable...yup...you get what you pay for.

It's also the problem with patents and the acquisition and hordeing thereof.

 

It's the externalities that should be universal. Sure whatever inside unreachable by the customer but not the external stuff. It's why there's such a thing as standards.

will13am
Oracle
Oracle

Great discussion so far.  If I choose to buy $1 unrated called, that's my problem.  Generally I just don't like the way the tech business stifles advancement by forcing each other to reinvent the wheel so to speak.  Does Ferrari shill their own tires that if not used will prevent the car from shifting past second gear?  


@Anonymous wrote:

I've been investigating an EV. From what I can tell so far, it's unwise to do that nice fast charge just for every charge. It's better for the battery to do a normal charge most of the time.

 


 

@Anonymous 

 

Right. Slow charging your lithium battery increases life span. One of the biggest complaint I see in real life for people needing a new phone is because the battery doesn't last long enough. Having to charge multiple times per day. "Just get a new battery installed". Not easy for the typical user and can be complications involved. Water proofing, brampton guy messing up your lcd or the speaker not working after. Guy severed the antenna cable. How come my phone has poor reception now? Lol. Most people don't get a new battery installed, its a headache. They buy a new device.

 

I am usually anti-corporation but this sounds like more of an opportunity to extend the lifespan of phone. It doesn't sound like much of a $ scam to me at least but I am not an expert on this stuff.

Anonymous
Not applicable

I've been investigating an EV. From what I can tell so far, it's unwise to do that nice fast charge just for every charge. It's better for the battery to do a normal charge most of the time.

 

Then, the cable is the next issue. If it's too thin then it basically becomes a fuse if too much power is being drawn through it.

Then the charger in the phone is another issue. If it can take in a pile of amps then it's not right. It should have some kind of doodad that only lets it take in so much power.

Then there's the wart. It can supply all you want but see above...the phone should regulate how much it wants to take.

If the wart can supply a pile of amps and the phone charger can take a pile of amps and you stick a tiny piece of wire in between then you're gonna get heat.

 

But I'm no electronics expert.

Psygineer
Deputy Mayor / Adjoint au Maire

@will13am wrote:

@srlawren , any comments?   I really don't like manufactures impeding use if third party accessories.  One plus has become unaffordable for me.  They are adding more reasons for me to look elsewhere.  

 

https://www.androidauthority.com/oneplus-6t-original-charger-954419/


I don't really think the authour of the article understood the technology properly. The McLaren Edition comes with the "Warp Charger" which shunts through higher amperage than any of the other chargers. It outputs 30w (5Vx6A) however due to inefficiences, thermal throttling and the like, their comparison shows it putting out less than 25W. That same pattern shows in all the other configs where the what should be 10W is coming in at 7W. Even my phone which is supposed to be 10W (5V2A) with its original charager typically registers as 7W when the phone is over 80% charged (slowing down to prevent overcharge/heat).My guess since the Warp Charger was throttling the test phone likely had a relatively high charger for their tests.

As for the different combinations. Different wires are rated differently. Your typical standard USB C cable likely is rated for for around 2A (2.1 or so). Pushing 6A though something that is built for 2A is likely going to cause a fair amount of damage, so the limitation occurs in the wire. Different charagers the person used all are lower amp chargers which is why the original "Warp" cable doesn't do any better with them than the other cables. The "Warp" charger likely has a handshake with the cable to ensure it is a cable that can handle the higher amps before it destroyes the cable and potentially the charger and phone. I'm guessing the Oppo cables and chargers and any other similar cables would likely work fine with the Oneplus 6t.

 

Edit: Wow a lot of replies while I typed that up. Those phone pictures are exactly what I am talking about. Those phones all suffered damage because too much power was pushed through generating excessive heat in the wire and charging port.


@computergeek541 wrote:

@RobertQc wrote:

@computergeek541 wrote:

@will13am wrote:

@srlawren , any comments?   I really don't like manufactures impeding use if third party accessories.  One plus has become unaffordable for me.  They are adding more reasons for me to look elsewhere.  

 

https://www.androidauthority.com/oneplus-6t-original-charger-954419/


I know that cheap $0.99 cables from ebay can charge very slowly or not at all.  However, if I take an original cable from a device manufactuer such as HTC, Samsung, LG, etc., I would expect it to work on the One Plus devices as they should be good enough quality.


@computergeek541  Agreed, but how are they supposed to confirm which ones are good and which ones are not? Then the 99 cent cables start emulating the good ones. At least this way they know for sure its safe.


They wouldn't.

 

But, it is One Plus' job to police the quality and safety of cables that they didn't make?  I'm unsure as to if they are doing this really for safefy reasons or if they just want to force you to buy extra chargers and cables from them.


@computergeek541If only 18+ gauge extension cords stopped people from plugging in their air conditioners / space heaters lol. We don't know the motive, but with all the crap companies are doing to scam us, this is one of the only times I will say... you know what, not a bad idea.

 

A better idea, would be able to have a communication method between the charger and phone, the charger would communicate charge sent, and phone communicate charge received, and be able to calculate the voltage drop, then it could regulate the charge based on whatever cable is plugged in, figure out the resistance in the cable / port (which equals heat) and adjust the charging current.


@RobertQc wrote:

@computergeek541 wrote:

@will13am wrote:

@srlawren , any comments?   I really don't like manufactures impeding use if third party accessories.  One plus has become unaffordable for me.  They are adding more reasons for me to look elsewhere.  

 

https://www.androidauthority.com/oneplus-6t-original-charger-954419/


I know that cheap $0.99 cables from ebay can charge very slowly or not at all.  However, if I take an original cable from a device manufactuer such as HTC, Samsung, LG, etc., I would expect it to work on the One Plus devices as they should be good enough quality.


@computergeek541  Agreed, but how are they supposed to confirm which ones are good and which ones are not? Then the 99 cent cables start emulating the good ones. At least this way they know for sure its safe.


They wouldn't.

 

But, it is One Plus' job to police the quality and safety of cables that they didn't make?  I'm unsure as to if they are doing this really for safefy reasons or if they just want to force you to buy extra chargers and cables from them.


@computergeek541 wrote:

@will13am wrote:

@srlawren , any comments?   I really don't like manufactures impeding use if third party accessories.  One plus has become unaffordable for me.  They are adding more reasons for me to look elsewhere.  

 

https://www.androidauthority.com/oneplus-6t-original-charger-954419/


I know that cheap $0.99 cables from ebay can charge very slowly or not at all.  However, if I take an original cable from a device manufactuer such as HTC, Samsung, LG, etc., I would expect it to work on the One Plus devices as they should be good enough quality.


@computergeek541  Agreed, but how are they supposed to confirm which ones are good and which ones are not? Then the 99 cent cables start emulating the good ones. At least this way they know for sure its safe.

RobertQc
Mayor / Maire

 

 

@will13am  Here are some melted charging ports.


http---i.imgur.com-2dp7Lfy.jpgIMG_20161212_170532.jpg53263d1388632605t-wp_20140102_001.jpg67016d1400601015t-img_20140520_103449.jpg53264d1388632666t-wp_20140102_006.jpgggnhkovrzyny.jpg


@will13am wrote:

@srlawren , any comments?   I really don't like manufactures impeding use if third party accessories.  One plus has become unaffordable for me.  They are adding more reasons for me to look elsewhere.  

 

https://www.androidauthority.com/oneplus-6t-original-charger-954419/


I know that cheap $0.99 cables from ebay can charge very slowly or not at all.  However, if I take an original cable from a device manufactuer such as HTC, Samsung, LG, etc., I would expect it to work on the One Plus devices as they should be good enough quality.

RobertQc
Mayor / Maire

@will13am wrote:

@srlawren , any comments?   I really don't like manufactures impeding use if third party accessories.  One plus has become unaffordable for me.  They are adding more reasons for me to look elsewhere.  

 

https://www.androidauthority.com/oneplus-6t-original-charger-954419/


@will13am  I thought part of that was a safety concern, you buy a cheap $1 usb cable from the dollarstore and it melts the charging port.

 

I go out of my way to turn off fast charging, all it does is shorten the life span of my battery and heat up the phone.

 

You can still regularly charge the phone, just not on fast charging.

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