Taxes and Vouchers Again

[kb_mv]

Maybe I'm having a slow day but I am struggling to come up with a reason that vouchers are worth it if I have a credit card. I have read some other threads on this but it seems people get confused with the question and insist you are not double taxed. Maybe it's the term that is confusing. (Suppose no autopay to make it easier).

If I buy a $25 voucher here in NB, I pay $3.75 in tax for a total of $28.75 for $25 worth of product/service. I load it onto my PM account and I have a $25 credit available for use which cost me $28.75. When my 30 day renewal comes around I am charged the $25 loaded from the voucher plus I still owe $3.75 for the taxes PM charges for the service I receive. In this scenario I have paid $7.50 in total taxes for a total of $32.50 by the time my account is renewed on the $25 plan.

Now if instead of the voucher, I go in and make a manual payment using a credit card of $28.75 (Visa doesn't charge tax), when my renewal comes around PM charges me $25 for the plan plus $3.75 tax here in NB. The total I have spent to receive $25 worth of service is $28.75, not $32.50 as in the first scenario.

Am I explaining this properly? Does it make sense? I think when people say they have been double taxed they really mean it has unfolded like in the first example. Vouchers are not treated like a gift card, they are treated as a service and taxed accordingly at point of sale. The full value of the voucher (which does not include tax paid) is of course available to load on your PM account.

Hopefully I haven't muddied the waters. For me it comes down to this: if I have access to a credit card (autopay not withstanding) why would I want to go the voucher route instead?

[darlicious]

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@gpixel wrote:

@esjliv 

It works the same way as manually paying ahead of time and having "available funds" in your account. the actual self serve system works by using credit. if you don't think of the "available funds" as actual money maybe that'll help you out

@darlicious what post was that from? I can't find it 

@gpixel  First page of this thread last post.

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[Sadi79]

you can save 15% +tax OFF if you buy from Canadian Cell Supplies but problem is they come and go in hours and you can get 4 at a time. just visit their website and signup for promos on bottom of page.

[AE_Collector]

• The taxable sale is when you buy the “Top Up” to put into your account. It doesn’t matter if you buy vouchers or your credit card covers it at renewal time it is X number of dollars plus your provinces taxes. Once it is loaded into your account it becomes “available funds” it is then Top Up money with taxes paid and is ready to go whether that is right now, in a week or two or even months away from being needed. 

AE_Collector

[esjliv]

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@gblackma wrote:

Yes @esjliv if your plan is $25 and you have $25 sitting in your self service account.  When your plan renews, there should be no charge on your credit card. Contact the moderators if there is. Stay safe. 

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@gblackma 

I can live with that! 👍

[LurganIeUk]

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@esjliv wrote:

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@gblackma wrote:

@esjliv No. You will only pay taxes on the portion charged to your credit card. Stay safe. 

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@gblackma haha, this is kinda of fun, or is it?

So, truthfully, I have never purchased a voucher.

Nor, have I ever topped up my account...I think I have been lucky thus far that autopay has been working wonderfully to date (*knock on wood*). 😃

Let's ignore the $2 autopay reward for this example:

If I load a $25 dollar voucher on my account (after paying $25 plus taxes for it in store/online,etc.), and my account renews for $25 on the renewal date....are you saying I would not get charged anything on my credit card for this particular renewal, not even the taxes?

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Using a $25 voucher you will pay taxes for the voucher plus the $25 AT THE RETAILER. You account will be topped up by $25. PM basically takes the money first from your BALANCE of which no taxes will never ever ever be taken from your BALANCE as taxes were paid beforehand. Then if your BALANCE is short of your payment AUTO PAY will kick in the remaining amount PLUS taxes. 

So.   BALANCE on your PM account has ALWAYS had taxes paid beforehand. 

So. If you buy a voucher, top up online on PM or use auto pay you WILL pay taxes on those transactions. 

[gblackma]

Yes @esjliv if your plan is $25 and you have $25 sitting in your self service account.  When your plan renews, there should be no charge on your credit card. Contact the moderators if there is. Stay safe. 

[gpixel]

@esjliv 

It works the same way as manually paying ahead of time and having "available funds" in your account. the actual self serve system works by using credit. if you don't think of the "available funds" as actual money maybe that'll help you out

@darlicious what post was that from? I can't find it 

[esjliv]

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@gblackma wrote:

@esjliv No. You will only pay taxes on the portion charged to your credit card. Stay safe. 

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@gblackma haha, this is kinda of fun, or is it?

So, truthfully, I have never purchased a voucher.

Nor, have I ever topped up my account...I think I have been lucky thus far that autopay has been working wonderfully to date (*knock on wood*). 😃

Let's ignore the $2 autopay reward for this example:

If I load a $25 dollar voucher on my account (after paying $25 plus taxes for it in store/online,etc.), and my account renews for $25 on the renewal date....are you saying I would not get charged anything on my credit card for this particular renewal, not even the taxes?

[darlicious]

@esjliv 

I think the brain farts are contagious.... @gpixel got them now you're coming down with them.

If your plan is $30. You buy a voucher for $25+tax (15%=$3.75)=$28.75   You top up your account with the $25 vouchers. $30-$25=$5 owing autopay charges your card $5 +$0.75 tax =$5.75 All told you paid $30 for your plan + $3.75+$0.75=$4.50 in tax  $30 + 15% tax($4.50)= $34.50.

[gblackma]

@esjliv No. You will only pay taxes on the portion charged to your credit card. Stay safe. 

[Naepalm]

@kb_mv I only buy vouchers from canada cell supplies and the only reason is I save a few bucks. There is no savings in buying vouchers. But when people dont have access to debit credit or a credit card this gives them an option to pay. In some cases paying using a voucher is more expensive because some sotes charge a convenience fee. 

[esjliv]

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@kb_mv wrote:

@computergeek541 PM taxes me on my $25 plan at the NB tax rate so I pay $28.75 in total regardless of how I get the funds there. I have no quarrel with that. If I buy a voucher I am taxed at point of sale and pay $28.75 for a $25 voucher. No?

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@kb_mv  - I actually am thinking the way you are seeing this as well!!

Every month on autopay I get charged $25 + taxes.

If I buy a voucher for @$25 + taxes, then load and flat amount of $25...I will have to pay the taxes again on renewal that is charged on my cc.

At least, this is how I see it too.

[LurganIeUk]

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@kb_mv wrote:

So they only add tax on the portion that they need to go get? Geez I feel like an idiot. Apologies to all for putting you through this lol.

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There are vouchers and gift cards and iTunes cards. 

Some cards you buy are $10 etc and you pay $10 for it no taxes. 

Like iTunes, Tim Hortons, etc

And taxes are taken from the $10 balance of the card. 

BUT prepaid mobile vouchers...ie Public Mobile and Telus you pay $10 PLUS  taxes because that card can be used for only one thing. And taxes for those are based on the province they are purchased in. 

I can see the concept you are caught up in. 

Also so if you top up in PM using your credit card you can tap a key (forget which one) and the screen will show amount purchased plus taxes. Then you complete the transaction. 

[kb_mv]

@gblackma That's where I got side tracked. Thanks!

[gblackma]

@kb_mv to clarify, if you use the manual one time payment option and pay with your credit card you will be taxed. If you use the manual one time payment option  and pay with a $25 voucher, the whole $25 Will be added and you will not be taxed again. Stay safe. 

[kb_mv]

@computergeek541 @gblackma @LurganIeUk @zblackma @gpixel 

Thanks for taking the time and patience to spoon feed this to me. You guys rock!

[kb_mv]

@gblackma Perfect! Thanks so much, that in a nutshell was what confused me.

[computergeek541]

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@kb_mv wrote:

@computergeek541 Do me a favour please. Look at my earlier post with the photos of my Visa and my account payments. Did I not pay $2.25 tax on my Visa that doesn't show on the transaction page? If I make a manual $25 payment with my Visa I pay $25 don't I?

Umm, maybe I am all screwed up here, I have never tried to do a manual payment. This was all hypothetical. If I make a $25 manual top up to my account using Visa does it cost me $28.75 (here in NB)?

This would explain my confusion.

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I've looked, and you've been chraged the proper amounts.

Yes, you get tax when you apply a top up manually in self serve, or for an autopay top up. Yes, you get charged tax when you buy a voucher manually. 

If you buy a voucher, you pay tax on the amount that you purchased at that moment. The retailer has no idea of what you're going to do with those funds after that. If you've purchased a voucher that's more than necessary, the extra balance will stay in your account. 

Once again, the renewal system only deducts $25 from your account balance, and not $28.25.

[gblackma]

Yes @kb_mv if you make a manual payment it will cost you $28.75 on your visa. $25 + 15% applicable taxes. Stay safe. 

[kb_mv]

So they only add tax on the portion that they need to go get? Geez I feel like an idiot. Apologies to all for putting you through this lol.

[LurganIeUk]

So if you topped up your account online at PM by $25 using your credit card your balance would increase by $25. Right? Then your credit card statement would show as $28.75.....$25 plus $3.75 taxes.  Right?

Do you have a friend in Alberta to buy your vouchers......GST only? And also Canadian Cellular is selling $10 vouchers for $8.50.  I would assume taxes would be on the $8.50. 

What is further confusing is...some retailers charge tax on the full amount and then give the dollar off. 

Ie.

What we expect. $10 minus $1 coupon = $9 purchase and 12% tax on the $9 = $1.08 tax

What we DONT expect. $10 minus $1 coupon = $9 purchase and 12% tax on the $10 = $1.20 tax

[computergeek541]

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@kb_mv wrote:

Now if instead of the voucher, I go in and make a manual payment using a credit card of $28.75 (Visa doesn't charge tax), when my renewal comes around PM charges me $25 for the plan plus $3.75 tax here in NB. The total I have spent to receive $25 worth of service is $28.75, not $32.50 as in the first scenario.

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For emphasis, this is where you're mistaken. The renewal process doesn't add tax again.

[kb_mv]

@computergeek541 Do me a favour please. Look at my earlier post with the photos of my Visa and my account payments. Did I not pay $2.25 tax on my Visa that doesn't show on the transaction page? If I make a manual $25 payment with my Visa I pay $25 don't I?

Umm, maybe I am all screwed up here, I have never tried to do a manual payment. This was all hypothetical. If I make a $25 manual top up to my account using Visa does it cost me $28.75 (here in NB)?

This would explain my confusion.

[zblackma]

@kb_mv  in that example. you were taxed on the $15, not on the whole $25 that you owed for your plan. The bottom line is that if its in the account you are not taxed again when its applied.

[computergeek541]

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@kb_mv wrote:

@computergeek541 PM taxes me on my $25 plan at the NB tax rate so I pay $28.75 in total regardless of how I get the funds there. I have no quarrel with that. If I buy a voucher I am taxed at point of sale and pay $28.75 for a $25 voucher. No?

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The bottom line is that you're only paying tax once.

You are charged tax when you make a top up, regardeless of how you do it.   When your $25 plan renews, the system is only looking for $25 of Public Mobile account balance. The tax has already been paid on that $25 of blaance regardeless of how it got there. 

Only $25 gets deducted from your Public Mobile account balance during the renewal, not $28.25.

[kb_mv]

@zblackma Have a look at my earlier post showing transactions on my account and on my Visa.

[kb_mv]

@computergeek541 PM taxes me on my $25 plan at the NB tax rate so I pay $28.75 in total regardless of how I get the funds there. I have no quarrel with that. If I buy a voucher I am taxed at point of sale and pay $28.75 for a $25 voucher. No?

[zblackma]

@kb_mv  Public Mobile doesn't charge taxes on credits in the account. They take the view that the taxes were already charged at point of purchase. So only the $25 will be applied to the bill. No taxes. 

[gpixel]

@kb_mv so you are saying pm is still charging you tax on your credit card? that's not right.. ask for your money back

[kb_mv]

@LurganIeUk I'm not arguing against your position. If I buy a voucher worth $25 I pay $28.75 for it. When I load it onto my self serve account I have $25 of available funds which I paid $28.75 for. Though tax isn't shown as paid in your self serve payment history, it is indeed charged by PM as reflected on my bank statement in an earlier posSeems we are getting bogged down like in the other threads I read lol.