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Model Citizen / Citoyen Modèle

Re: Upcoming Help Changes + Feedback


@popping wrote:

@z10user4 wrote:

@RobertQc wrote:

 

Customers in almost every case do not say thanks, often do no answer your questions, do not quote you, when you are trying to help them, get mad at you for trying to help, mark jibberish as the solution, post requiring immediate and urgent help then vanish for days, come back and say no one is helping then in a new topic while trying to explain why they don't have to restart their phone, because restarting can't fix their special issue. All the while if you consider the time to reward of making pennies per hour, one of the only satisfactions left around here is seeing that little notification saying someone bravo'd your post and time you take to read other peoples great answers letting them know, they also did a good job, bravo to them.



That is one of, if not, the most experienced, observational paragraph I have read here in some time.

That was a marvel to wake up to.

Thanks

 

Don't forget that lovely little green check Smiley Happy


I agree.  People asked the questions and don't stay around for the solution.  It makes us spend more time just to stay around longer to help them.

 


just keep in mind that any answers can sometimes benefit other that have the same issue/question.

Mayor / Maire

Re: Upcoming Help Changes + Feedback

If it's the leaderboard that is of so much concern then just looking at it now I see all of 5 of the 8 positions on the list taken up by Oracles, one retired Oracle (granted only known by the avatar) and two regular folks.

The Oracle position is by appointment only. It's basically unreachable. Yet it gets marketed on the site as getting rewards up to $20. This is not true. Regular folks can only attain $15.

Maybe the list should filter the Oracles and show just regular folk. Drill down and they can show in the list. Fine. Maybe that would show people that the leaderboard is reachable if it's only regular folks on it.

They can get all their recognition in the Top Contributors post, the gold star, the bold name and their guaranteed $20.

 

Edit: Yes I made a couple little alterations/additions to this post as of 10:30am ET

Oracle

Re: Upcoming Help Changes + Feedback

As an experiment i changed my leaderboard default  view from 30 days to 24 hours. I kind of like it.

 

It does show top bravoed person at 51 bravos,  which is kind of daunting in itself. But i think it nice as it is a little more dynamic. 

 

 

Mayor / Maire

Re: Upcoming Help Changes + Feedback


@mimmo wrote:

As an experiment i changed my leaderboard default  view from 30 days to 24 hours. I kind of like it.

 

It does show top bravoed person at 51 bravos,  which is kind of daunting in itself. But i think it nice as it is a little more dynamic. 

 


Right. So what's the point of the poll? If you want to see whichever set term then you can select it in settings or open the list and flip around looking at the set terms.

Maybe the poll simply could have asked...which set term for the home page do you prefer for a default?

My answer was none of the above.

Great Neighbour / Super Voisin

Re: Upcoming Help Changes + Feedback

Just as what was mentioned.. Currently, we have a choice to choose the time period ourselves, I don't see the reason why it should be restricted to only one option. Instead, I like the idea to have our own customization for the Community homepage. Another question asked was: "Do you use the leaderboard to help determine who you might want to tag in your post to help answer your question?" ^ Actually not. There is a lot of users who answer questions. As long as the problem gets solved, that's all I care.

Oracle

Re: Upcoming Help Changes + Feedback


@z10user4 wrote:

@

Right. So what's the point of the poll? If you want to see whichever set term then you can select it in settings or open the list and flip around looking at the set terms.

Maybe the poll simply could have asked...which set term for the home page do you prefer for a default?

My answer was none of the above.


@z10user4 maybe they want to change the default view.  I really didn't know I could change view till the other day when I was exploring many of the preferences. Probably many people don't know they can change the default view.  We  will have to wait and see what happens.  Many interesting points have been brought forward. Hopefully PM will look and consider some of the various ideas.

 

 

Oracle

Re: Upcoming Help Changes + Feedback

@Brooke_C Apologies in advance if these thoughts are somewhat off topic. I have been saddened by an increasing level of emphasis/discussion on rewards allocation versus participation as its own reward. Hence the folowing rather dramatic suggested changes.

 

A. Community Rewards Revamp

  • change Oracle reward to $5 plus “earned” monthly reward
  • change top 1% to top 1% for last 6 months
  • emphasize Reward allocation is at PM’s sole discretion
  • to encourage new participants send SMS to everyone after 1, 5, 10 kudos received, or posted
  • include lounge participation in rewards allocation
  • continue making Bravos Leaderboard available

B. Monthly Top Contributors Post

  • delete all reference to individual reward allocations (i.e. Oracles and top 1%). Everyone knows where they are from their account, or SMS from PM.
  • list everyone who, in the last month, has just met the following levels of lifetime participation in kudos received PLUS given
    • 50; 100; 500; 1,000; 2,000; 5,000; 10,000, 20,000+

>>> ALERT: I AM NOT A MODERATOR. JE NE SUIS PAS MODERATEUR.
Model Citizen / Citoyen Modèle

Re: Upcoming Help Changes + Feedback


@Luddite wrote:

@Brooke_C Apologies in advance if these thoughts are somewhat off topic. I have been saddened by an increasing level of emphasis/discussion on rewards allocation versus participation as its own reward. Hence the folowing rather dramatic suggested changes.

 

A. Community Rewards Revamp

  • change Oracle reward to $5 plus “earned” monthly reward
  • change top 1% to top 1% for last 6 months
  • emphasize Reward allocation is at PM’s sole discretion
  • to encourage new participants send SMS to everyone after 1, 5, 10 kudos received, or posted
  • include lounge participation in rewards allocation
  • continue making Bravos Leaderboard available

B. Monthly Top Contributors Post

  • delete all reference to individual reward allocations (i.e. Oracles and top 1%). Everyone knows where they are from their account, or SMS from PM.
  • list everyone who, in the last month, has just met the following levels of lifetime participation in kudos received PLUS given
    • 50; 100; 500; 1,000; 2,000; 5,000; 10,000, 20,000+

First, I agree with the general motivation you have in presenting your angle, that of getting and rewarding more participation.

The BIG thing to consider is that PM has to rely on the functionality of this forum platform to guide their process for allocating rewards. And it appears that their process is to use the reasonably easiest method available. That is why there is a reliance on the leaderboard. Any other statistics or metrics for PM to use would require more effort to gather, or may not even be possible given the limitations of the forum.

 

From the level of sophistication I have seen from PM on this topic and many other areas (e.g. self-serve), I think that will be the biggest obstacle to overcome. It would be interesting to see how much effort PM is willing to extend to refine the Community Rewards program.

 

A few comments:

  • "change top 1% to top 1% for last 6 months"

I believe extending the time frame to any range would actually serve as a greater deterrent / discouragement to participation because you will continue to see many of the same users in the top ranges.

 

  • "to encourage new participants send SMS to everyone after 1, 5, 10 kudos received, or posted"

This forum already does this, though the number may be different (I have not double-checked). This is easily confirmed by the early badges that new users get for their participation.

 

  • "include lounge participation in rewards allocation"

How does general chatting in the Lounge benefit the community in general, at least from a Rewards perspective? Shouldn't rewards be tied to contribution to helping other customers? After all that is the primary reason for this forum.

 

  • "list everyone who, in the last month, has just met the following levels of lifetime participation in kudos received PLUS given"

Though I do not think adding the high end earners would be encouraging to new users, I think you may be on to something to actually highlight LOW end users reaching certain targets. So I see some merit there.

 

But like I have said before, I think the biggest issue is the 100% reliance on Bravos received because it still does not take any measure of the value of those Bravos and hence replies. 

 

BUT for PM, this is the lowest hanging fruit for them ON THIS PLATFORM to base their community rewards on, and that is why they use that metric. The point being that any alternative solution will probably also have to be easy enough to implement or they are not likely to do anything.

Oracle

Re: Upcoming Help Changes + Feedback

@pm-smayer97 Just couple of notes on your thoughts;

 

- "I believe extending the time frame to any range would actually serve as a greater deterrent / discouragement to participation because you will continue to see many of the same users in the top ranges."  On the actual reward the objective here is, in fact, to make this reward for long term contributors more stable. On the visiblity issue, top contributors still quite visible IF one looks at the leaderboard BUT they would no longer be visible on the monthly contributors page. 

- "This is easily confirmed by the early badges that new users get for their participation." If they do get a this SMS fine; not sure what SMS new(ish) contibutors receive.

- Either Lounge contributes to the well being of the Forum as a whole, or it doesn't. If it doesn't, get rid of it.

- We all can guess how PM allocates rewards; so your's is as good as anyone. As I said earlier, this is ONLY an issue if one participates FOR the Community Reward. As soon a "who get what" is removed from the Monthly Contributors Post PM's formula will become even more opaque.

 


>>> ALERT: I AM NOT A MODERATOR. JE NE SUIS PAS MODERATEUR.
Mayor / Maire

Re: Upcoming Help Changes + Feedback


@Luddite wrote:

@Brooke_C Apologies in advance if these thoughts are somewhat off topic. I have been saddened by an increasing level of emphasis/discussion on rewards allocation versus participation as its own reward. Hence the folowing rather dramatic suggested changes.

 

A. Community Rewards Revamp

  • change Oracle reward to $5 plus “earned” monthly reward
  • change top 1% to top 1% for last 6 months
  • emphasize Reward allocation is at PM’s sole discretion
  • to encourage new participants send SMS to everyone after 1, 5, 10 kudos received, or posted
  • include lounge participation in rewards allocation
  • continue making Bravos Leaderboard available

B. Monthly Top Contributors Post

  • delete all reference to individual reward allocations (i.e. Oracles and top 1%). Everyone knows where they are from their account, or SMS from PM.
  • list everyone who, in the last month, has just met the following levels of lifetime participation in kudos received PLUS given
    • 50; 100; 500; 1,000; 2,000; 5,000; 10,000, 20,000+

@Luddite@pm-smayer97It all boils down at public mobile community, the more you do, the less you are valued. There is nothing wrong with your opinion. But I will share mine since this represents massive changes to fix what I say is the least important part of the problem. @Brooke_C I don't think any changes need to be made until the real issue is solved. To me it seems that out of our 400-600 monthly contributors (It says in the last 30 days there are currently 574 at the moment) there are a small handful of members that complain, most of them also complain when the sun comes out too. I have seen a larger amount of people ask about rewards and are excited by the existing system. I also see an even greater amount of people in the top contributor post say thank you and appear quite happy.

 

I am actually fine with how things are, but if you want to know what I think is where the system fails? As it stands public mobile rewards you the most for doing as little as possible just above 0. Somewhere between showing up to school only for lunch period and going to the library to play games on the computer.

 

Dec 8 oracles  5 top 1% 17 top 5%  21 top 10% 72 top 25% 104 top 50% (Meaning Last month they considered 454 people to be "contributors") I can do Jan because badges arnt out yet.

 

Public mobile wants participation to go up? Well give out MORE rewards. If you think about it, Public mobile gave out $758 last month for 458 people. And only $598 if you consider oracle to basically be impossible for most people. Combined time we are probably talking about 10,000 combined hours totaling $758. They want more people to come to the forum? Well then start offering them something for actually doing it. How much money do you think they save from shutting down a CALL CENTRE? And they pay more than a handful who basically live on this forum 16 hours a day in total $758? And half of those rewards go to people that make less than 10 posts a month.

 

Anything passed top 10% is close to 0 participation. Not even going to call out the members that have been been showing up once per month for the top contributor post and getting a reward.
 

Then we get some sour guss members complaining because they think someone got a couple extra bravos.. but when they already have 500+ actually hurts their $/HR $/Bravo scoresheet. Nitpicking a couple bravos here and there like it makes any difference. I think they are pointing the gun in the wrong direction. "revamp" the system however you want, it still comes down to public mobiles reward system gives out far less for your time the more you contribute. Why would anyone (I must be crazy) spend upwards of 200 hours per month for $15 when I should spend 1 hour a month for $5?

 

@z10user41000+ bravos and got $15, so thats less than 1.5 cents per bravo.

@wetcoastergets 132 bravos in Dec, got $10, thats 7.57 cents per bravo

@mh198319 bravos in Dec and got $5, so thats like 19 cents per bravo.

 

(sorry for using your names, but its public knowledge, and I had to use someone in those groups to give an example)


All of this hoopla over literally pennies.