topic Re: Odd MMS issue in Get Support

Odd MMS issue

stephenasmith — Sat, 23 Jul 2022 17:59:01 GMT

Hi folks,

I have a weird problem I’m wondering if someone can help me with. Just a couple days ago I started being unable to receive MMS from some people. Anytime I get a picture sent to me from certain contacts I get an “unable to download MMS” error. It knows there is an MMS message but cannot get it. But it only happens for some of my contacts, as there are some people I can get MMS from just fine and with no errors, and others that simply do not come through.

This is a very recent development, and for the life of me I cannot figure out why. I haven’t made any changes to my settings, and I reviewed the MMS settings in the APN, and everything checks out there. I also don’t think it's the messaging app itself, since I tried using two different apps on my phone and had the same problem. I didn’t do a complete reset or anything drastic, but I’ve checked what I would consider the obvious problems (including making sure my data is on).There are two possibilities I can think of.

This first one is pretty speculative, but could there be some sort of cross-network messaging issue? Here is why I am wondering about that. I can get MMS from some contacts who are also on Public Mobile, as well as Koodo, both of which are owned by Telus (and I assume use the same network). However, MMS messages do not come through from a contact on Fido (owned by Rogers), as well as my work phone which runs on Bell. I can still get regular SMS messages from other carriers.

I also cannot rule out that there is something weird going on with my phone itself, but I don't know if you can even tell your phone to accept MMS from only some people and not others, and everything else is working fine. For what it's worth, I’m using a Motorola phone with Android 8.1.

Has anyone ever experienced or heard of this issue? I tried searching the forum here since I’ve seen other people saying they were having MMS issues, but not quite like this (I’ll apologize in advance if I missed this one somewhere). Thanks for any help or advice you can provide.

Re: Odd MMS issue

Timer — Sat, 23 Jul 2022 18:10:15 GMT

@stephenasmith

for send MMS photo
you have to turn on your mobile data.

Edit: @stephenasmith

tried to reset network and check your APN Settings select your phone modal to get device customized.

and go to app messages and do clear cache and clear data.

and rebooting device.

Re: Odd MMS issue

dabr — Sat, 23 Jul 2022 18:08:17 GMT

@Timer Did you read OP's post? He says he's able to receive from some contacts but not all..

@stephenasmith So MMS is not coming in from Fido only (Rogers)? Maybe it's connected to the recent service loss that they experienced? It's rather odd that you can receive from some contacts and not others.

Try clearing cache on the messaging APP, although I don't think that's your issue.

Re: Odd MMS issue

dust2dust — Sat, 23 Jul 2022 18:16:44 GMT

@Timer- Please stop skim-reading. He said he made sure data was on.

Adding - and more. He also said he verified the APN. More skimming. And that he gets other MMS messages so it must be fine.

@stephenasmith- Can you test with picture size? A small low res picture up to a high res picture. There might be size limitations somewhere in the system. But I'm not sure.

Interesting that internal Telus gets through but not external. I do think Telus is mucking around erroneously with their network with untested unforeseen consequences.

Re: Odd MMS issue

esjliv — Sat, 23 Jul 2022 20:15:52 GMT

@stephenasmith

Are you using either iMessage and Chat Features, both these require a wifi connections or data to send/receive texts.

if iMessage and you are out of data for your current cycle be sure to have SMS and MMS enabled in the settings of your device.
if you are using android and you use Chat Features, then I suggest you turn that off, as it requires wifi or data to send/receive texts.

Disable your Chat Features:

Open Messages
Tap More options > Settings > Chat features
Turn Enable chat features off

If this is a particular person you are having issues with, it is possible they have something in their settings (like above) preventing you from successfully sending MMS to them.

For example, Chat Features can be enabled/disabled on a device/app level; AND, it can also be disabled on a contact level in your contacts app. So check this as well.

edit, try your SIM card into another phone and test MMS with the person(s) you are having issues with, to rule out a device/setting issue.

Re: Odd MMS issue

stephenasmith — Sat, 23 Jul 2022 21:47:58 GMT

Thanks for the feedback everyone. Here are a few more tidbits and testing results.

@dabr – I cleared the cache on my messaging app, but it didn’t make any difference. I even tried a different messaging app, but had the same problem. Also, its not just Fido but MMS messages from Bell as well that are not coming through.

@dust2dust – Picture size testing didn’t have any impact, it tried with a small picture (under 100kb) but no change.

@esjliv – I’m not using either iMessage or Chat Features. And its more than just one person. I tried swapping my SIM card with my wife (who is also with Public Mobile) and when I did that the problem stayed with my phone. Her phone with my SIM card worked fine, but my phone was still not working properly for MMS with her SIM card.

So that makes me think it’s a phone problem, not a network problem. I did try resetting my network connections and it didn’t fix the problem.

But the final strange thing is that its only when I try to receive MMS. I can send them just fine, which is one of the things really throwing me for a loop…

Re: Odd MMS issue

esjliv — Sat, 23 Jul 2022 22:01:13 GMT

@stephenasmith - that was good testing you did with swapping the sim cards.

Check your APN settings for your model of phone: https://apn-canada.gishan.net/en

I suppose you could try a factory reset of your motorola. Ensure you back things up first though.

Re: Odd MMS issue

dust2dust — Sat, 23 Jul 2022 22:05:49 GMT

@esjliv- He gets MMS fine from other people. It's not APN.

Please don't do a factory reset. That should be absolute last ditch. I'm trying to get everything back from that myself. Big mistake. No app data gets backed up.

Re: Odd MMS issue

stephenasmith — Sat, 23 Jul 2022 22:31:40 GMT

I checked the APN settings again at the site suggested above for my model phone and its all good.

Doing a factory reset is a weapon of last resort, and I have no plans to do anything like that anytime soon. And even if it persists it’s a bit of a sledgehammer on a mosquito tactic that has no guarantee of working.

At this point I think I’m just going to wait and see what happens and do some more research, but I would definitely welcome any other suggestions.

Re: Odd MMS issue

dumpst3r — Sat, 23 Jul 2022 22:54:17 GMT

I am having all the same issues, I have done a factory reset and has not changed anything.

Re: Odd MMS issue

softech — Sat, 23 Jul 2022 23:04:45 GMT

@stephenasmith you are on Android. You only have problem with this when mms from some contacts. Can you find out if they are ALL using iPhone or ALL using Android or mix?

@dumpst3r , you have the same issue, are you on Android? and can you find out the same thing I ask @stephenasmith above?

Re: Odd MMS issue

Korth — Sat, 23 Jul 2022 23:29:14 GMT

If MMS works with some but not all contacts then it's usually incompatible softwares.

Everyone has to use the same (standard) MMS protocol. If they're using an MMS-handling app with extended (nonstandard) features - like iMessage, RCS, or Signal - then they'll have to dig through settings and configure the app to use standard SMS/MMS by default. Most versions of these apps these days allow the user to configure things on a per-contact basis instead of an all-or-nothing basis.

iMessage is the most popular of these nonstandard apps - and iPhone users tend to assume that "it just works" the same for people without iPhones (though Apple made sure that it doesn't).

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207006

SMS texts are unlimited at Public Mobile (on all but one or two legacy plans, anyhow). MMS attachments are also unlimited at Public Mobile, though they require cellular data to be active and will each be logged on Self-Serve as an "MMS Event" which consumes 0.000KB of billable data.

Photos and attachments sent with iMessage will consume billable data. They're serviced through Apple's iCloud instead of the wireless provider's network, and they aren't recognized as standard SMS/MMS packets on standard SMSC/MMSC network machinery anyhow.

Re: Odd MMS issue

dumpst3r — Sat, 23 Jul 2022 23:33:58 GMT

Yes I am on Android Poco X3 Pro. I have had issues with 3 different people on Iphones using Bell, Virgin and Rogers

Re: Odd MMS issue

Korth — Sat, 23 Jul 2022 23:44:11 GMT

@dumpst3r wrote:
Yes I am on Android Poco X3 Pro. I have had issues with 3 different people on Iphones using Bell, Virgin and Rogers

You cannot receive iMessages if they contain any of Apple's character formatting, emotes, or iMessage (attachment) content.

There are no apps in the Android stores which will do this without an iCloud account linked to an iPhone (or to iTunes on an iOS device).

The people with the iPhones need to change their settings to disable iMessage content if they want you (or any other Android user, or any non-Apple 2FA codes, etc) to properly receive what they're sending.

Or you need to buy an iPhone.

Re: Odd MMS issue

dumpst3r — Sat, 23 Jul 2022 23:50:24 GMT

Thank you for your response the trouble is I have been messaging these people for years and this only started happening a couple days ago.

Re: Odd MMS issue

esjliv — Sun, 24 Jul 2022 00:23:12 GMT

~~@dumpst3r~~ - @stephenasmith When did you upgrade to Android 8.1? Are you able to go back to the previous version and see if that makes a difference.

I always think the Factory Reset is the last ditch effort @dust2dust .

edit, I meant to tag OP

Re: Odd MMS issue

dumpst3r — Sun, 24 Jul 2022 00:14:36 GMT

I am Miui 13 and updated to it late last year or early this year. And i have also done a factory reset that has not changed anything

Re: Odd MMS issue

softech — Sun, 24 Jul 2022 03:13:10 GMT

@Korth wrote:
You cannot receive iMessages if they contain any of Apple's character formatting, emotes, or iMessage (attachment) content.

@Korth

thanks for the explanation

I understand Apple could have its different set of emoji. But what are other "iMessage (attachment) content" that are not compatible on non iPhone. ?.

Re: Odd MMS issue

Korth — Sun, 24 Jul 2022 04:28:45 GMT

@softech

I don't use an iPhone. Though some of the people around me use them a lot.

iMessage texts support extended/foreign alphabets, "extended unicode pages", extensive emote/symbol libraries, character formatting and colouring, etc. iMessage also supports images, photos, animations (in gif, swf, and many other formats). It can also send audio. It sends things like photos and recordings which allow two-way or conditional interactions. It even supports a sort of executable script and batch language which can make the recipient's iMessage do many exciting things when the message is opened. And iMessage appends all sorts of invisible/hidden "envelope" information onto each message, some is readable and some is not.

Apple has released a variety of iMessage SDKs and framework tools over the years but these never reveal the actual workings of iMessage in useful tasty technical detail. They basically allow cosmetic and UI changes, limited functionality changes, no operational changes. Many people have disassembled and examined iMessage over the years but their significant findings are generally rendered obsolete in the next update. It's constantly changing with background updates. Apple guards its money-making secrets (and iCloud datamining) aggressively.

So all I can say with certainty is that if you use iMessage and you only click on the touch keyboard buttons then it'll likely send plaintext SMS which anyone can read. But if you click on anything else then it becomes increasingly unlikely that a non-iMessage target will be able to receive or be able to read what you sent.

iMessage is a great app. Much prettier, more exciting, and more engaging than stodgy old SMS/MMS. No argument there. It's unfortunate that it's not fully compatible with non-iMessage since the whole point of communication is intercompatibility.

Imagine a world where iPhone users could dial or answer calls with other iPhone users but couldn't do reliable calling with non-Apple phones - just replace "calling" with "texting" and you'd find yourself in our real world.

I don't blame people for buying iPhones. I don't blame people for not buying iPhones. I don't blame Apple for creating and maintaining (and "securing") their own proprietary standard.

But I do blame Apple for being deceptive about it. They don't really lie, not outright, but they misrepresent and misdirect and misinform just enough to make people believe they're being truthful, forthright, and transparent when they're not. iMessage-vs-SMS/MMS incompatibilities are a major issue which many people don't know about until they're affected - and still refuse to believe even after being informed or instructed about.

It's worth noting that only about 14% of all smartphones run iMessage. A market share which has fallen a few points over recent years and is expected to fall a few more points in coming years.

iMessage users should be aware that over 86% of the world (almost 95% of the world outside Canada and USA) uses smartphones which don't (which can't) run iMessage and therefore can't read much of what iMessage sends by default. Including almost all 2FA authenticators (like financial and government institutions) because these tend to prefer "opensource" standards which avoid dependency on a single corporation. This is the truth Apple doesn't advertise.

https://www.mobileapps.com/blog/android-vs-ios-market-share

Re: Odd MMS issue

stephenasmith — Sun, 24 Jul 2022 13:19:17 GMT

Thanks again for all the suggestions and perspectives. Here are a few more replies:

@dumpst3r – Glad to hear (sort of) that its not only me having these issues

@softech – In terms of who I am having problems receiving MMS from it’s a mix. I can confirm that there is one iPhone and one Google Pixel in the mix on my end I cannot receive MMS from.

@Korth – I wouldn’t be surprised if its incompatible software, but the fact that it only started recently would suggest to me that it has to be some sort of update that changed something, and I don’t know what it would be. And its not just with iPhone that I am having these issues.

@esjliv – I’ve been on Android 8.1 for years, so I don’t think that’s the issue, and I don’t think I could easily go back. Also, I don’t think its any other kind of software update on my phone since I usually only run updates on the weekend and it started before that (of course, my phone could have snuck something in without me knowing about it, which is annoying).

I have to admit I am having a bit of a hard time coming up with an explanation that doesn’t have some sort “but what about this…” counterargument.