topic Re: Rant re: a not-unlocked unlocked cell phone in Get Support

Rant re: a not-unlocked unlocked cell phone

jtgibson — Wed, 05 Jan 2022 21:05:48 GMT

I wrote up this question for the CCTS after being rather miffed by Rogers flatly refusing to unlock a phone I had purchased from a third party, and I like it enough that I thought I'd share. There's no question here, or at least, not one for any non-regulatory body... just me venting spleen at Rogers for being, well, Rogers. 😉 (My previous lowest-cost-prepaid-plan provider was Virgin Mobile/Bell, which I jumped ship from when they unilaterally started charging monthly activation fees, inflated my per-minute fee by a third, and increased the annual prepaid cost to a minimum of $150. I don't get cheaper than that here, but at least I feel more confident that I'm getting exactly what I'm paying for. =))

"Is it possible to require a service provider to unlock a phone that is locked to their network, non-blacklisted, and never activated by anyone else, if I am not a customer of that service provider?

I currently have a cell phone I purchased on the Best Buy Marketplace from (what I noticed far too late) a numbered company, 9723501 Canada Limited (dba ATDMKT). The product was described as an "LG K4 2017 M151 8GB Black Unlocked Android Smartphone", and was shipped and delivered without direct fraud, but is in fact network-locked to the Rogers Network, and will not activate on my own network (which is based on the Telus network).

* My service provider (Public Mobile) claims they are unable to unlock anything except the SIM card itself.

* The phone manufacturer (LG) has asserted that this is not caused by the phone itself -- they were helpful enough to identify that the phone's IMEI is currently registered to the Rogers network.
* Rogers technical support has refused to unlock this cell phone as I am not (and never was) a Rogers Wireless customer.

As I understand it, the seller is the one who is required by law to unlock the device or provide unlocking instructions. I am attempting to contact the seller.

However, I am curious as to why national service providers are not required to unlock phones upon request from a current lawful owner of a device, rather than "the customer". It seems that they are fulfilling the letter but not the spirit of the law if they refuse to unlock devices with one degree of separation from the original purchaser. If the seller refuses contact or forces me to take legal action on principle, it seems even more suspect that I may have to rely on a third-party unlocking service and pay for a service that is mandated free."

I do want to thank both Public Mobile's Moderator_Team and LG Canada for making this frustrating time a little less frustrating. 😉

Re: Rant re: a not-unlocked unlocked cell phone

Helpershelper — Thu, 12 Nov 2020 02:08:03 GMT

@jtgibson

For your first question: if you buy a phone from anywhere and it’s locked then only the carrier can unlock it because they set the lock for it. This isn’t the first iPhone in 2009, if you pay off your device then it’s yours, the carrier doesn’t care anymore.

Now being network locked to Rogers doesn’t mean you can’t use it because their coverage is great. The phone itself wouldn’t be locked unless it was reported stolen which isn’t the case.

Technically what you need to unlock:

IMEI of your device (can usually be found on the box or on a sticker on the device or battery or you can just dial *#06# into the dialer)

Your phone number, account number and account name

Security for the account (password, etc.)

Now when you visit a public mobile location (https://www.publicmobile.ca/en/on/store-locator) they will be able to port over your number even if the phones locked. I had a $230 balance on my phone because I was on a $10 tab and I was able to port into PM. The carrier would just bill you your final bill.

I would be careful with buying phones the way you did because unless you read the fine print you never know who’s selling you the actual phone.

Re: Rant re: a not-unlocked unlocked cell phone

jtgibson — Thu, 12 Nov 2020 02:17:11 GMT

Some more news, and it doesn't seem like good news. https://crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2019/2019-169.htm -- Apparently this same issue was brought up with the CRTC and they felt as though it should always be interpreted only for current customers, in spite of the unfair power dynamic. Logically, it simply created a loophole where carriers dumped as many pre-2018 network-locked cellphones to third-party vendors as they could in order to thumb their noses at anyone unlucky enough to buy one. I am displeased. 😉

Re: Rant re: a not-unlocked unlocked cell phone

Psygineer — Thu, 12 Nov 2020 02:20:37 GMT

I know Bell operates the same. I was given an old phone by a coworker, Bell refused to unlock it for me, but Bell happily unlocked it for them.

Re: Rant re: a not-unlocked unlocked cell phone

jtgibson — Thu, 12 Nov 2020 02:24:51 GMT

While much of what Helpershelper said is quite valid, I will just note that a Rogers-network-locked phone from a third-party vendor will not work with Public Mobile unless there was an account involved somewhere or they were Rogers customers. I have two phones on my desk, a cheap-ish unlocked phone I picked up while waiting for this one to arrive, and the locked phone -- the SIM only works in the cheap one.

Re: Rant re: a not-unlocked unlocked cell phone

gpixel — Thu, 12 Nov 2020 02:28:48 GMT

@jtgibson there are options to get unlock codes for any device, but I think you have to pay.

https://canadaunlocking.com/

Re: Rant re: a not-unlocked unlocked cell phone

JK8 — Thu, 12 Nov 2020 02:30:46 GMT

@jtgibson

Here is a thread of my experience buying a phone from a buy and sell site.

https://productioncommunity.publicmobile.ca/t5/Phones-Hardware/Moved-sim-cards-to-iphone-11-and-it-is-now-not-working/td-p/609806

Re: Rant re: a not-unlocked unlocked cell phone

LurganIeUk — Thu, 12 Nov 2020 02:33:51 GMT

I have purchased numerous second hand iPhones. What I do is ask for the IMEI and what carrier it was on and if it was locked or not. There is a website to confirm by the IMEI number for iPhones only. I then do a chat with the original carrier that sold the phone and have it unlocked. I have never ever had a refusal. If they ask why....I say my brother gave me the phone and I want to use it for travel in USA or Europe. I never call....only do the online chat....try it please and let me know.

Also a long time ago I unlocked a non iPhone on eBay for $5. It worked!!!

Re: Rant re: a not-unlocked unlocked cell phone

Korth — Thu, 12 Nov 2020 02:35:45 GMT

You can purchase unlock codes on ebay, as cheap as they get, but never free.

I always recommend people get their devices unlocked immediately, even if they're perfectly happy with their carrier and have no plans to ever go elsewhere. Do it while it's free, before some change in circumstances or rules takes the freedom away.

Because the unlocked phone might be useful in a couple years when suddenly your carrier sucks or some other carrier offers an impossibly perfect deal.

And because you can always give or sell the unlocked phone to someone else. It has much less usefulness or resale value if it's forever married with to one carrier. Imagine trying to give/sell someone a car which can only be refueled by the one fuel provider which can open the gas tank.

Re: Rant re: a not-unlocked unlocked cell phone

LurganIeUk — Thu, 12 Nov 2020 02:36:33 GMT

Also see here. https://www.lg.com/ca_en/unlockcode

Re: Rant re: a not-unlocked unlocked cell phone

JK8 — Thu, 12 Nov 2020 02:39:24 GMT

@LurganIeUk

In my case with Bell I tried the live chat several times and calling their toll free number to ask them to unlock the phone. Each time they refused unless I was the original owner.

Re: Rant re: a not-unlocked unlocked cell phone

jtgibson — Thu, 12 Nov 2020 02:43:11 GMT

@gpixelYeah, Canada Unlocking was the legitimate unlocker I settled on, comparing against numerous others who charge upwards of 20-40 USD. Getting shafted with a locked phone made me pretty wary against the eBay ones. 😃

Re: Rant re: a not-unlocked unlocked cell phone

LurganIeUk — Thu, 12 Nov 2020 02:44:19 GMT

Well that is Bell customer service for you!!! But I have done successfully with Bell. I think there are some that I did 2 tries on because some of the agents don't know what to do...so they just refuse you. It does not make sense to refuse as less and less phones out there will be locked at time of sale and the requests should lessen.

If any one wants me to try...let me know by PM. But be sure of the carrier it is locked to.

Re: Rant re: a not-unlocked unlocked cell phone

gpixel — Thu, 12 Nov 2020 02:50:02 GMT

@jtgibson how much did you end up paying?

*that's not too bad. are all your services working, including data? lg phones usually have issues connecting to mobile data on public mobile

Re: Rant re: a not-unlocked unlocked cell phone

jtgibson — Thu, 12 Nov 2020 02:52:00 GMT

It's US$19.84, a whopping 15 cents cheaper than the next cheapest option I could find at US$19.99.

As for how well it works, I'll let you know once I've actually gotten it done. I'm still on the burner phone for the moment since I'm on-call, but even that phone (a pure 3G phone) is a bit spotty on the data connection.

Re: Rant re: a not-unlocked unlocked cell phone

LurganIeUk — Thu, 12 Nov 2020 03:04:52 GMT

@jtgibson wrote:
It's US$19.84, a whopping 15 cents cheaper than the next cheapest option I could find at US$19.99.

As for how well it works, I'll let you know once I've actually gotten it done. I'm still on the burner phone for the moment since I'm on-call, but even that phone (a pure 3G phone) is a bit spotty on the data connection.

Will you go after Best Buy?

Re: Rant re: a not-unlocked unlocked cell phone

LurganIeUk — Thu, 12 Nov 2020 03:09:19 GMT

Also it looks like the ruling changed in favour of the carrier.

https://crtc.gc.ca/eng/contact/phone/q19.htm

Re: Rant re: a not-unlocked unlocked cell phone

jtgibson — Thu, 12 Nov 2020 03:09:20 GMT

If I were to get after Best Buy, it'd probably just be to warn them of a slightly-shady-ish seller on there, so that the seller would be warned formally or removed. But my faith in humanity is holding out for the possibility that it was just a purely legitimate mistake by the seller; especially during COVID, I don't want to dink around with someone's livelihood unless there's a really good reason.

Re: Rant re: a not-unlocked unlocked cell phone

LurganIeUk — Thu, 12 Nov 2020 03:12:15 GMT

I think you have a reason.

Mislead

And it cost you

Nevertheless it could be a painlessly easy request and refund.

Re: Rant re: a not-unlocked unlocked cell phone

gpixel — Thu, 12 Nov 2020 04:16:17 GMT

@jtgibson but even that phone (a pure 3G phone) is a bit spotty on the data connection.

at&t is going to discontinue HSPA in 2022. there's a good chance Canadian telecoms will follow soon after