topic Re: Oracle Program discussion in The Lounge

Oracle Program discussion

RobertQc — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 03:29:38 GMT

I did not make this thread. @ShawnC13 moved my post of nomination for change here because of all the responses that followed.

This does not change my nomination for change.

@ShawnC13 wrote:
Sorry @RobertQc, I couldn't supply the post and leave your nominations in there .I apologize for that. Didn't notice that had happened until you tagged me here

@ShawnC13This feels very wrong. I think you should have moved every post after mine that was no longer on topic. You could have made a link. You could have put you as the OP and said "This is in response to RobertQc's post" with a quote. My post was on topic the rest following were not. I nominate diversity and change and as requested by PM team I was sharing my appreciation since I have read so many of their posts from our 2 retires. Just because some disagree with my vote doesn't mean it should be removed from the ballot box. Even if I am the only one that votes that way, its my vote. It doesn't give anyone the right to say it doesn't count by placing it in ~~the trash~~ errr I mean "the lounge". Lets try to remember @Alan_K mentioned passionate people providing honest feedback.

I have re-posted my nomination where it belongs, if it violates the terms of service or community guidlines then please let the @CS_Agent or someone that actually works at public mobile clear this up.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think there are far more deserving people here than me but thank you for the mentions. @Anonymous @wetcoaster @computergeek541 @Dunkman @Psygineer and thank you for the bravo to said mentions @will13am @SD08 @srlawren

@Alan_K wrote: interested in providing honest feedback about how we are doing.

@Alan_K I might be outcasting myself here so get your pitch fork ready. While there are names I would really like to suggest, I will refrain as I think the oracle program should be revamped to prevent a repeat of the last year. This is not meant to personally call anyone out but its time for a wake up call. Some oracles hold the title, but did not do the work, had little to no participation but the program continues to "lock them in" as a higher power that walks among us

https://productioncommunity.publicmobile.ca/t5/Announcements/The-Oracles-are-here/td-p/46853 "Every three months, we’ll look at the Community’s most active members and consider them for the Oracle program. Here are some tips to help you get noticed:"... But following the tips did nothing.

When public mobile was unable to do what they said with public labs (which was the best thing ever imo), they shut it down hard. Well... public mobile fell asleep on the oracle program, so clearly its time to rethink how one is held in such regard. I am just spitballing here but maybe let a "magic formula" decide each month or two, to give a fair playing field for anyone. Or let the community decide. Maybe drop the lowest performing oracle each month. Something needs to be done. We need a change. This would also give you an extremely diverse suggestion base.

Diversity is what we need. Having the same people, give the same macro response is ok but you asked for "passionate". Sorry to say but the "passion" doesn't last forever and you need to take advantage of those that have passion while they still do. Because everyone loses steam sooner or later. The ones that have passion go unnoticed, the ones that had passion fade away and Simon the script bot might as well be an oracle.

Does anyone remember @LEGO ? I wonder if she would still be here if she ever got to touch the position I believe she would have earned. This may motivate not only the oracles that are fading away but may motivate others to see that something is actually possible to achieve.

Both @imm1304 and @Rockdaddy22 were incredible contributors for their time and that should not go unrecognized. Thanks for your hard work.

Re: Thank you Rockdaddy22 & imm1304 + Search for new Oracles!

Anonymous — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 07:21:20 GMT

I get confused with the bravo-able and non-bravo-able threads or categories. The Lounge is not bravo-able. But seems some Announcement threads are and some aren't. How does one tell the difference?

Is this thread bravo-able?

Edit: Sorry...a Bravo that counts.

Re: Thank you Rockdaddy22 & imm1304 + Search for new Oracles!

ShawnC13 — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 08:22:07 GMT

@RobertQc, I had the same questions as you did about 16 months ago. I put them forward to the powers that be behind the scenes and had some great conversations on the subject. Until I actaully became an Oracle I didn't know the full amount of stuff that they do. There is a lot going on behind the curtain of the general forum that isn't always seen by the rest of the community.

If the wording stated that it would evaluated every year would that make a difference? We are currently discussing expectations of Oracles going forward. As well in our group we learn a lot more about each other. We have retirees, full time workers, shift workers with different availabilities. Recently one of the retiring Oracles started a new job/ promotion that is very demanding as in the Chief Dr of Trauma of a hospital. Another Oracle as recently moved in the last couple of months as well. We never know when life will throw us for a loop and take away any free time we had.

Sure the reward is nice but like everyone says if you are here for the money you are here for the wrong reason. Dropping the bottom Oracle each month would be a logistical nightmare for granting and removing the extra functions we have access to here (moving post/editing posts) and say someone has been the Top Oracle for say 2 years and so a month they go on a Vacation and are then at the bottom. Would you want them removed for taking a vacation and not participating after over 2 years of commitment to the community?

The passion is still with all the Oracles even those that just retired but I think it is more of circumstances changing for them that is preventing them being able to fulfill that passion.

You mentioned Lego and I haven't seen her for a bit and hope everything is ok. You are probably right I am sure if she was still as active she would be mentioned in a lot of these nominations But to "wonder if she would still be here if she ever got to touch the position I believe she would have earned." It is hard to touch a position that you may have not earned yet.

We have members here that have been active and supplying support here for the 2 years I have been here and continue to do so and are very happy with the rewards they receive.

Are there times when Oracles might have some downtime in the community yes for sure but there is still a lot going on behind the scenes and they are still giving feedback to PM, pushing for improvements for the customers but that goes unseen.

There is diversity in the Oracle group and I sure there will be more with new ones coming in soon. There are many times when Oracles see things differently from each other but we are a group that is always pushing for improvements for everyone.

With that I am very excited to see who will be joining our group soon and look forward to working with them!!!

Re: Thank you Rockdaddy22 & imm1304 + Search for new Oracles!

RobertQc — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 08:46:15 GMT

@ShawnC13 wrote:
If the wording stated that it would evaluated every year would that make a difference?

@ShawnC13Yes it would, actually a huge difference. if its a year, no problem then say a year, but if you say 3 months... then do what you say or change what you say.

Otherwise its misrepresentation, misleading and unfair.

"How long do you stay an Oracle"
"Every three months we look at which members are most active, and consider them for the Oracle program."
"Oracle lose their status" "Oracles can retain their status by keeping up the great work"
"The number of Bravos and accepted solutions help us determine if Oracles have been supporting the Community. "

Re: Thank you Rockdaddy22 & imm1304 + Search for new Oracles!

computergeek541 — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 09:19:20 GMT

@Anonymous wrote:
I get confused with the bravo-able and non-bravo-able threads or categories. The Lounge is not bravo-able. But seems some Announcement threads are and some aren't. How does one tell the difference?
Is this thread bravo-able?

Edit: Sorry...a Bravo that counts.

From what I understand, bravos in the Announcement forum do count towards the leaderboard, but ones from the lounge do not. You can still give and receive bravos in the Lounge, but supposedly they don't count. Who know if that's actually true or not or if that's just what we're being told. Only the people have programmed the site and the moderators would truly be able to tell us.

Re: Thank you Rockdaddy22 & imm1304 + Search for new Oracles!

computergeek541 — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 09:31:06 GMT

@RobertQc wrote:
I think there are far more deserving people here than me but thank you for the mentions. @Anonymous @wetcoaster @computergeek541 @Dunkman @Psygineer and thank you for the bravo to said mentions @will13am @SD08 @srlawren

@Alan_K wrote: interested in providing honest feedback about how we are doing.
@Alan_K I might be outcasting myself here so get your pitch fork ready. While there are names I would really like to suggest, I will refrain as I think the oracle program should be revamped to prevent a repeat of the last year. This is not meant to personally call anyone out but its time for a wake up call. Some oracles hold the title, but did not do the work, had little to no participation but the program continues to "lock them in" as a higher power that walks among us

Does anyone remember @LEGO ? I wonder if she would still be here if she ever got to touch the position I believe she would have earned. This may motivate not only the oracles that are fading away but may motivate others to see that something is actually possible to achieve.

Both @imm1304 and @Rockdaddy22 were incredible contributors for their time and that should not go unrecognized. Thanks for your hard work.

I do remmber Lego, but I don't remember seeing that person here, or at least regularly for quite a while.

When it comes to an oracle earning $20 for simply holding the title, I believe that's where the issue lies. @RobertQc, I think I understand the point you're trying to make. And, I know that you don't blame the departing oracles for this. This is the way the program is set up. If I were an oracle and I became inactive, either because I lost interest, or becasue I no longer had much time to devote to these forums, I definitelly wouldn't complain that I was still receiving a discount. Also, it's not like someone could even refuse the $20 because it automatically gets deposited in that person's account.

I even wonder if the oracle program should not have any set community reward amount, but if these members should rather be on the same footing as everyone else, at least when it comes to monthly reward. I don't know - I'm just thinking out loud.

Re: Thank you Rockdaddy22 & imm1304 + Search for new Oracles!

RobertQc — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 09:37:14 GMT

@ShawnC13 wrote:But to "wonder if she would still be here if she ever got to touch the position I believe she would have earned." It is hard to touch a position that you may have not earned yet.

@ShawnC13For sure I agree. Her time was short. But she was right at the top for 3 months. if the oracle program was handled as promised then she should have at least got a chance. The way the current oracle program has been handled its unlikely unless she stuck around till now and even then questionable. There was a point when she was the #1 contributor and if the oracle position was actually up for grabs more often, I say she should have got it. But of course, speculation.

Re: Thank you Rockdaddy22 & imm1304 + Search for new Oracles!

will13am — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 13:39:01 GMT

@ShawnC13 wrote:
@RobertQc, I had the same questions as you did about 16 months ago. I put them forward to the powers that be behind the scenes and had some great conversations on the subject. Until I actaully became an Oracle I didn't know the full amount of stuff that they do. There is a lot going on behind the curtain of the general forum that isn't always seen by the rest of the community.

If the wording stated that it would evaluated every year would that make a difference? We are currently discussing expectations of Oracles going forward. As well in our group we learn a lot more about each other. We have retirees, full time workers, shift workers with different availabilities. Recently one of the retiring Oracles started a new job/ promotion that is very demanding as in the Chief Dr of Trauma of a hospital. Another Oracle as recently moved in the last couple of months as well. We never know when life will throw us for a loop and take away any free time we had.

Sure the reward is nice but like everyone says if you are here for the money you are here for the wrong reason. Dropping the bottom Oracle each month would be a logistical nightmare for granting and removing the extra functions we have access to here (moving post/editing posts) and say someone has been the Top Oracle for say 2 years and so a month they go on a Vacation and are then at the bottom. Would you want them removed for taking a vacation and not participating after over 2 years of commitment to the community?

The passion is still with all the Oracles even those that just retired but I think it is more of circumstances changing for them that is preventing them being able to fulfill that passion.
You mentioned Lego and I haven't seen her for a bit and hope everything is ok. You are probably right I am sure if she was still as active she would be mentioned in a lot of these nominations But to "wonder if she would still be here if she ever got to touch the position I believe she would have earned." It is hard to touch a position that you may have not earned yet.

We have members here that have been active and supplying support here for the 2 years I have been here and continue to do so and are very happy with the rewards they receive.

Are there times when Oracles might have some downtime in the community yes for sure but there is still a lot going on behind the scenes and they are still giving feedback to PM, pushing for improvements for the customers but that goes unseen.

There is diversity in the Oracle group and I sure there will be more with new ones coming in soon. There are many times when Oracles see things differently from each other but we are a group that is always pushing for improvements for everyone.

With that I am very excited to see who will be joining our group soon and look forward to working with them!!!

@RobertQc, I agree with much of what is mentioned by @ShawnC13. When Shawn and I had our noses pressed up against the window for the better part of a year wondering if/when someone would let us in, I must admit some of what you are thinking crossed my mind. At the end of the day, what is in words is not possible. What Public Mobile is doing is practical. With that said, one of the priorities is to fix the knowledge base to better align the words with the practice. I was the biggest cheerleader in pushing for the revamp of the knowledge based. This is one area that Public Mobile did not really touch and I did not think it mattered that much in how the inaccuracy affected the day to day usage of this service. The needs of the many vs the needs of the few... Lesson learned, we will have to put focus on this and get the wording fixed.

Re: Thank you Rockdaddy22 & imm1304 + Search for new Oracles!

will13am — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 13:44:08 GMT

@computergeek541 wrote:
@RobertQc wrote:
I think there are far more deserving people here than me but thank you for the mentions. @Anonymous @wetcoaster @computergeek541 @Dunkman @Psygineer and thank you for the bravo to said mentions @will13am @SD08 @srlawren

@Alan_K wrote: interested in providing honest feedback about how we are doing.
@Alan_K I might be outcasting myself here so get your pitch fork ready. While there are names I would really like to suggest, I will refrain as I think the oracle program should be revamped to prevent a repeat of the last year. This is not meant to personally call anyone out but its time for a wake up call. Some oracles hold the title, but did not do the work, had little to no participation but the program continues to "lock them in" as a higher power that walks among us

Does anyone remember @LEGO ? I wonder if she would still be here if she ever got to touch the position I believe she would have earned. This may motivate not only the oracles that are fading away but may motivate others to see that something is actually possible to achieve.

Both @imm1304 and @Rockdaddy22 were incredible contributors for their time and that should not go unrecognized. Thanks for your hard work.
I do remmber Lego, but I don't remember seeing that person here, or at least regularly for quite a while.

When it comes to an oracle earning $20 for simply holding the title, I believe that's where the issue lies. @RobertQc, I think I understand the point you're trying to make. And, I know that you don't blame the departing oracles for this. This is the way the program is set up. If I were an oracle and I became inactive, either because I lost interest, or becasue I no longer had much time to devote to these forums, I definitelly wouldn't complain that I was still receiving a discount. Also, it's not like someone could even refuse the $20 because it automatically gets deposited in that person's account.

I even wonder if the oracle program should not have any set community reward amount, but if these members should rather be on the same footing as everyone else, at least when it comes to monthly reward. I don't know - I'm just thinking out loud.

The entire community reward system was revamped not that long ago. Previously, the oracles were supposedly always on top of the leaderboard. The new system takes recognition of past participation and less focus on month to month leaderboard stats. Now you want to go back to the future?

Re: Thank you Rockdaddy22 & imm1304 + Search for new Oracles!

RobertQc — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 14:02:45 GMT

@will13am wrote:
The new system takes recognition of past participation and less focus on month to month leaderboard stats.

@will13amMy only issue is public mobile does not say this. They say they will consider the most active members of the community for the oracle program every 3 months and oracles can retain their status by keeping up the great work.

They don't say is "as long as they were good before we give them a 1 year free pass"... I am fine with whatever they say, but to say one thing, and do another is misleading, especially those who put in ridiculous amounts of time, follow all of the required tips but actually have no chance of gaining such status in the near future.

@will13am wrote:
we will have to put focus on this and get the wording fixed.

Right.

Re: Thank you Rockdaddy22 & imm1304 + Search for new Oracles!

will13am — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 14:20:47 GMT

@RobertQc wrote:
@will13am wrote:
The new system takes recognition of past participation and less focus on month to month leaderboard stats.
@will13amMy only issue is public mobile does not say this. They say they will consider the most active members of the community for the oracle program every 3 months and oracles can retain their status by keeping up the great work.

They don't say is "as long as they were good before we give them a 1 year free pass"... I am fine with whatever they say, but to say one thing, and do another is misleading, especially those who put in ridiculous amounts of time, follow all of the required tips but actually have no chance of gaining such status in the near future.

@will13am wrote:
we will have to put focus on this and get the wording fixed.
Right.

Okay, we are in violent agreement for "do as I say". As you know, a lot of things move with glacial pace around here. The issue will be brought up at the next opportunity.

Re: Thank you Rockdaddy22 & imm1304 + Search for new Oracles!

mimmo — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 14:37:38 GMT

@RobertQc I do agree with you, but a constant turnaround of orackes is probably not the best idea either.

I recall reading 1 year review....(but that might have been under old rewards system). I don't think it is right that it takes someone to retire for a search to be done. Not sure either if nominations in the forums is the right process, but I guess it takes some of the work off management.

Being called to gate. Bye bye rain, vacation here I come.

Re: Thank you Rockdaddy22 & imm1304 + Search for new Oracles!

RobertQc — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 14:47:38 GMT

@mimmo wrote:
@RobertQc I do agree with you, but a constant turnaround of orackes is probably not the best idea either.

@mimmoNot sure if high turnaround is the best idea either, I only mentioned that as "spitballing", throwing out ideas regarding drive of not only the applicants but the existing oracles as the last year to me is a terrible representation of the oracle program and the lack of follow through by public mobile.

While I don't think high turnaround would be very good there should be some turn around especially for those that do nothing for extended periods of time.

@mimmo wrote:
Being called to gate. Bye bye rain, vacation here I come.

Enjoy

Re: Thank you Rockdaddy22 & imm1304 + Search for new Oracles!

ShawnC13 — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 16:26:39 GMT

@RobertQc wrote:

@ShawnC13 wrote:But to "wonder if she would still be here if she ever got to touch the position I believe she would have earned." It is hard to touch a position that you may have not earned yet.
@ShawnC13For sure I agree. Her time was short. But she was right at the top for 3 months. if the oracle program was handled as promised then she should have at least got a chance. The way the current oracle program has been handled its unlikely unless she stuck around till now and even then questionable. There was a point when she was the #1 contributor and if the oracle position was actually up for grabs more often, I say she should have got it. But of course, speculation.

@RobertQc, three months at the top is great and a lot of work but I personally don't think that is enough. I know the wording needs to change. I will use myself as an example as that is the only info I know the stars for. I made the top reward level right from my first month here and did that for 13 months straight before going to the Oracle rank and have still been able to keep myself near the top of the leaderboard every month. Was I wondering if I would become an Oracle after 3 months? No but after the 7th month I did but I just kept up the work as I enjoyed helping and at the time the reward was still $6 and was happy reducing my bill by that each month.

Re: Thank you Rockdaddy22 & imm1304 + Search for new Oracles!

NDesai — Fri, 04 Jan 2019 22:30:55 GMT

@RobertQc We totally understand your point of view. But i would have to disagree with a lot of points you made. Most are well argued by Shawn, and the most important one is that our commitment to the community is a bit different. We don't always post and that does not mean we are not around. As mentioned by Shawn, there are areas we regularly participate in which goes unseen. On top of that, stuff happens in life, and not everyone can continue to participate at the same level.

All things Oracles are part of, i have to agree with others that constant change of Oracles is not a good idea. Sure it will help with different opinions and what not, but it will be difficult to manage from a view of the PM team.

This Oracle program was introduced a while back by staff who are no longer with Public Mobile. They set certain rules on whatever they thought was right at the beginning. I am sure they barely had any idea on how this program will run through out years and how they will utilize Oracles. Now they have some ideas, and we know how Oracles are being utilized. Based on that i agree that the wording of "three months" should be changed or removed.

Re: Thank you Rockdaddy22 & imm1304 + Search for new Oracles!

RobertQc — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 00:18:37 GMT

@NDesaiIt would not be unreasonable to say that the opinions of oracles are somewhat biased towards this, maybe not intentional but the boss doesn't say lets make it easy to have my position switched with a low level employee and strip away my badge, office and salary. The ones on top don't want to make it easier to have their positions replaced and can come up with many logical reasons as they have an understanding and picture of behind the scenes that I and almost every other other user here lacks. So I don't think its completely fair to say. It's 99.99% of the masses whos voice counts as nothing because 0.01% says its so. Its more of a dictatorship than anything.

Re: Thank you Rockdaddy22 & imm1304 + Search for new Oracles!

srlawren — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 00:29:07 GMT

@RobertQc are you really insinuating that the oracles are like dictators? that they're corrupt and trying to maintain their power and massive payouts? [massive was meant to be very sarcastic here.]

Come on man, get down off your high horse. Good lord. This is an online community for customers helping other customers of a discount cellular service provider. This ain't comuist [insert your favourite comunist country name here]!!! You've floored me with that last response, in a bad way. Please go give your head a shake EDIT: and get over yourself. Sheesh.

Re: Thank you Rockdaddy22 & imm1304 + Search for new Oracles!

ShawnC13 — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 00:34:36 GMT

@RobertQc wrote:
@NDesaiIt would not be unreasonable to say that the opinions of oracles are somewhat biased towards this, maybe not intentional but the boss doesn't say lets make it easy to have my position switched with a low level employee and strip away my badge, office and salary. The ones on top don't want to make it easier to have their positions replaced and can come up with many logical reasons as they have an understanding and picture of behind the scenes that I and almost every other other user here lacks. So I don't think its completely fair to say. It's 99.99% of the masses whos voice counts as nothing because 0.01% says its so. Its more of a dictatorship than anything.

@RobertQc, I think you have gone over the line calling this a dictatorship. I had explained how I wondered if I would make oracle if there were changes going to be made but I still came and helped out. We have tried to give you a bigger picture of what goes on with the Oracles and that it just isn't what everyone sees here. Not everyone can hold the Position of Oracle so I am sure there will always be some unhappy people. But people come to this provider for low cost cell service. The rewards are a bonus

Re: Thank you Rockdaddy22 & imm1304 + Search for new Oracles!

Anonymous — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 00:45:40 GMT

@RobertQc

Dude...don't fry your @$$ on those bridges you lit up behind you.

Sometimes ones brutal honesty needs to remain unsaid.

Or face the backlash you're now getting.

Either that or an excellent anti-campaign to become an Oracle.

Re: Thank you Rockdaddy22 & imm1304 + Search for new Oracles!

RobertQc — Sat, 05 Jan 2019 00:53:50 GMT

@srlawren wrote:
@RobertQc are you really insinuating that the oracles are like dictators? that they're corrupt and trying to maintain their power and massive payouts? [massive was meant to be very sarcastic here.]

Come on man, get down off your high horse. Good lord. This is an online community for customers helping other customers of a discount cellular service provider. This ain't comuist [insert your favourite comunist country name here]!!! You've floored me with that last response, in a bad way. Please go give your head a shake EDIT: and get over yourself. Sheesh.

@ShawnC13 wrote:
@RobertQc, I think you have gone over the line calling this a dictatorship. I had explained how I wondered if I would make oracle if there were changes going to be made but I still came and helped out. We have tried to give you a bigger picture of what goes on with the Oracles and that it just isn't what everyone sees here. Not everyone can hold the Position of Oracle so I am sure there will always be some unhappy people. But people come to this provider for low cost cell service. The rewards area bonus

lol wow... I really think you misunderstand my point, my point is that when the opinion of being able to secure the position long term is coming mostly from those in that position which makes up a fraction of the community it could be easily misconstrued and feel like a dictatorship to the people that are not you or your buddy. I am not trying to call you a dictator but want you to understand what it feels like for someone outside of the inner circle and if that pushes your buttons something might be wrong there and sorry you feel that way but it was meant for you to see another side of things.

@Anonymous wrote:
@RobertQc
@Dude...don't fry your @$$ on those bridges you lit up behind you.
Sometimes ones brutal honesty needs to remain unsaid.
Or face the backlash you're now getting.
Either that or an excellent anti-campaign to become an Oracle.

@AnonymousI don't want to be an oracle. I just wanted another side of the story to be said which seems to make people angry ... but I thought it would have some take a step back and and look at it from a different pair or shoes and say, hey sh*t maybe it does kind of feel unfair to some.... I didn't mean to light all the bridges up but I guess I did. Can't take it back now.